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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


dlbalr

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I’m hoping Price can rebound and have a solid year with us and wouldn’t mind seeing him stay here long term. Weber isn’t getting traded any time soon due to his injury status. 

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41 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

Pacs and Benn to Arizona for Pierre-Olivier Joseph, Jan Jenik, and their 1st round pick??

 

The value is there for the Habs but why does Arizona make that move?  They're not on the verge of contending - they're a fringe playoff team.  If a team is going to cough up basically two firsts for Pacioretty, they're either going to want him extended (I'm not sure Pacioretty would commit to a long-term deal there) or have him be the final piece for Cup contention.  Is it worth losing that much in value to simply try to make the playoffs?

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26 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

Pacs and Schlemko to Jersey for Wood, Boqvist and a pick.

I'm not sure the pick would come but I would do this in a heart beat!

NJ gets Max to kill it with Hall and I think Boqvist is gonna pretty good. Seems fair :)

 

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8 hours ago, ehjay said:

I'm not sure the pick would come but I would do this in a heart beat!

NJ gets Max to kill it with Hall and I think Boqvist is gonna pretty good. Seems fair :)

 

 

NJ has Jesper Boqvist, not Adam Boqvist. 

 

I'm not doing that deal without the 1st round pick... at bare minimum.... Boqvist and Wood... its ok i guess... but its no blue chipper.  This isn't Adam

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15 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

NJ has Jesper Boqvist, not Adam Boqvist. 

 

I'm not doing that deal without the 1st round pick... at bare minimum.... Boqvist and Wood... its ok i guess... but its no blue chipper.  This isn't Adam

lolll my bad :/ and Thank you for clear up :)

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https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/07/27/5-logical-landing-spots-for-max-pacioretty/

 

Joey Alfieri lists Chicago, Edmonton, LA, New Jersey, and San Jose as logical trade partners for Pacioretty. I would personally add Pittsburgh and Dallas to the mix as well. 

 

I hope this doesn't drag out til training camp. Max is going to be miserable talking to reporters.

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5 hours ago, Trizzak said:

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/07/27/5-logical-landing-spots-for-max-pacioretty/

 

Joey Alfieri lists Chicago, Edmonton, LA, New Jersey, and San Jose as logical trade partners for Pacioretty. I would personally add Pittsburgh and Dallas to the mix as well. 

 

I hope this doesn't drag out til training camp. Max is going to be miserable talking to reporters.

 

If Bergevin just wanted to deal him as a rental, he probably has a dozen potential offers. The hold up is teams wanting a sign and trade, and Pacioretty wanting too much.

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On 2018-07-28 at 4:19 AM, Trizzak said:

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/07/27/5-logical-landing-spots-for-max-pacioretty/

 

Joey Alfieri lists Chicago, Edmonton, LA, New Jersey, and San Jose as logical trade partners for Pacioretty. I would personally add Pittsburgh and Dallas to the mix as well. 

 

I hope this doesn't drag out til training camp. Max is going to be miserable talking to reporters.

I read that and honest I think there are better ideas on this forum that what he wrote!

Back of the napkin, pass go and collect $200, type or reporting 

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12 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I read that and honest I think there are better ideas on this forum that what he wrote!

Back of the napkin, pass go and collect $200, type or reporting 

 

Never ask an Oilers fan what they would give up for Max Pacioretty.  I saw a guy say the best offer he could make for Pacioretty was Kirill Maksimov and a 2nd round pick.

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30 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Never ask an Oilers fan what they would give up for Max Pacioretty.  I saw a guy say the best offer he could make for Pacioretty was Kirill Maksimov and a 2nd round pick.

For Max the least I want is: a 2019 1st round pick, a quality young top4 LD and a mid-6 LW to give the CH about 20 goals to replace Patches. I would take an aging player or bad contract at LW but the two other pieces are a must.

(I have to add, that I prefer we keep him)

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1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Never ask an Oilers fan what they would give up for Max Pacioretty.  I saw a guy say the best offer he could make for Pacioretty was Kirill Maksimov and a 2nd round pick.

 

I find myself a bit worried that Max Pacioretty is under-valued around the league - or else that he is just not as valuable as we think he is. I dunno, there always seems to be one or more available LW higher up the food chain, whether its Evander Kane (!) or whoever. The notion of 'Max Pacioretty being available' just does not seem to create the kind of buzz or excitement outside of Montreal that I'd have expected a player of his calibre to generate. I hope I'm totally off-base in this impression.

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9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I find myself a bit worried that Max Pacioretty is under-valued around the league - or else that he is just not as valuable as we think he is. I dunno, there always seems to be one or more available LW higher up the food chain, whether its Evander Kane (!) or whoever. The notion of 'Max Pacioretty being available' just does not seem to create the kind of buzz or excitement outside of Montreal that I'd have expected a player of his calibre to generate. I hope I'm totally off-base in this impression.

He’s under valued amongst many Habs fans as well. 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

For Max the least I want is: a 2019 1st round pick, a quality young top4 LD and a mid-6 LW to give the CH about 20 goals to replace Patches. I would take an aging player or bad contract at LW but the two other pieces are a must.

(I have to add, that I prefer we keep him)

 

You might get that if he does a sign and trade (which he supposedly wants an 8x8 contract), you won't if he's just a rental.

 

If Pacioretty has a year like last year we're looking at a Rick Nash level return. If he goes back to his usual 30 goal campaign, we could get closer to that in a rental situation.

 

18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I find myself a bit worried that Max Pacioretty is under-valued around the league - or else that he is just not as valuable as we think he is. I dunno, there always seems to be one or more available LW higher up the food chain, whether its Evander Kane (!) or whoever. The notion of 'Max Pacioretty being available' just does not seem to create the kind of buzz or excitement outside of Montreal that I'd have expected a player of his calibre to generate. I hope I'm totally off-base in this impression.

 

There is some fear he could end up a Bobby Ryan, so teams don't like him asking for eight years in an extension. But when you look at what Tom Wilson got for a 14 goal career highmark, I don't think teams are afraid to pay him. Just afraid to give him that end of career insurance contract. If Pacioretty was willing to do a three year extension with someone, I could see them fine with paying him $8M and giving Montreal a great return. But the rumoured 8x8 he asked New York and LA for? That's where his value becomes sketchy.

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56 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

You might get that if he does a sign and trade (which he supposedly wants an 8x8 contract), you won't if he's just a rental.

 

If Pacioretty has a year like last year we're looking at a Rick Nash level return. If he goes back to his usual 30 goal campaign, we could get closer to that in a rental situation.

 

 

There is some fear he could end up a Bobby Ryan, so teams don't like him asking for eight years in an extension. But when you look at what Tom Wilson got for a 14 goal career highmark, I don't think teams are afraid to pay him. Just afraid to give him that end of career insurance contract. If Pacioretty was willing to do a three year extension with someone, I could see them fine with paying him $8M and giving Montreal a great return. But the rumoured 8x8 he asked New York and LA for? That's where his value becomes sketchy.

 

Yeah, that seems true enough. A team would be insane IMHO to give him an 8-year deal at 8 million per; that contract is liable to be an absolute millstone in the final 3-4 years of the deal. That said, if my theory that MaxPac's being available for some reason lacks 'buzz' around the league is accurate, I do think it has more to do the player per se than with the specifics of his contract demands. Even last season, when no one knew the specifics of his demands and he was being shopped at the deadline, he didn't seem to be any team's top choice, and he seems not to have been regarded as one of those eye-opening Big Names that fans, media, and teams all go crazy over.

 

Why, for instance, was Rick Nash's name always spoken in CAPITAL LETTERS over the years like he was a big, elite superstar, when in fact his numbers - apart from one PPG season in '08-09 - have been quite comparable to Max's? I get that Evander Kane is young, but even he seemed to create a lot more of a stir on the market than MaxPac despite never having approached MaxPac production. I don't really get it. He's like the half-forgotten man.

 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yeah, that seems true enough. A team would be insane IMHO to give him an 8-year deal at 8 million per; that contract is liable to be an absolute millstone in the final 3-4 years of the deal. That said, if my theory that MaxPac's being available for some reason lacks 'buzz' around the league is accurate, I do think it has more to do the player per se than with the specifics of his contract demands. Even last season, when no one knew the specifics of his demands and he was being shopped at the deadline, he didn't seem to be any team's top choice, and he seems not to have been regarded as one of those eye-opening Big Names that fans, media, and teams all go crazy over.

 

Why, for instance, was Rick Nash's name always spoken in CAPITAL LETTERS over the years like he was a big, elite superstar, when in fact his numbers - apart from one PPG season in '08-09 - have been quite comparable to Max's? I get that Evander Kane is young, but even he seemed to create a lot more of a stir on the market than MaxPac despite never having approached MaxPac production. I don't really get it. He's like the half-forgotten man.

 

Max is American, Rick is Canadian and a former first overall pick who Toronto wanted for years. Buzz there is a bit different. Kane has a bit of different buzz, kind of controversy that follows him.

 

Talk was that at the deadline, Florida and Calgary was very interested in him but Bergevin's asking prices were extremely high. He asked about Trochek as a return for Pacioretty. Come the draft, it looked like the Kings were willing to pay but wanted Max at a 6x6 not an 8x6 so they signed Kovalchuk as a UFA for three years instead. Calgary signed Neal, Florida got Hoffman. The Islanders might still be interested. I think the Rangers could want him too even if they are rebuilding. He'd be a good captain during the transition years. But basically the teams who were in a real hunt for a top winger got their wingers. That's why there's no buzz right now.

 

At this point, Bergevin is hoping for an arm's race. Tampa and Toronto know they have each other to beat. Boston and Florida want in that mix. Washington wants to repeat and Pittsburgh wants revenge. Philly and NJ are looking for that move to get them into the mix. Columbus has to figure out Panarin who will be the only guy more valuable than Pacioretty. Over in the west the Central is the toughest division in the league and the Pacific has a declining Anaheim trying to reverse fortunes, Vegas trying to repeat success, two underachieving Alberta teams, and an intriguing Arizona team. The ball is in Bergevin's courts for his rentals and getting max value for them, which I think he's done well for selling at the trade deadline, but if he's insisting on the price for Pacioretty which it was last year? Forget it.

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The reason he’s not being talked about in grandiose terms is because his name has been involved in rumors for quite some time, as well as the fact that the organization hasn’t done him any service when it comes to recent comments surrounding his future with the club.

 

A name like Matt Duchene took a hit once he fell out of favour within his organization. I understand that I’m currently discussing a topic with people who have very little positive to say about Matt Duchene, but he ended up doing quite alright last year after having been moved, despite having taken a few jabs, and that’s when everyone got quiet about him. Despite public view, which is similar to the public view on Pacioretty, Sakic did quite well with such an under appreciated player being quite readily available to the league. Hopefully we can do the same as I’m certain there are many GMs who would appreciate Pacioretty, needless to say.

 

While it’s certainly possible, I’m not convinced that Pacioretty was actively being shopped with great desperation at last year’s deadline. Bergevin hasn’t convinced me that he without a doubt has such a clear plan from year to year.

 

In short, just because Pacioretty is (apparently) going to get traded “as soon as possible”, this does not mean that it was the clear cut sentiment of the organization to do the same thing at last year’s deadline. This, despite the media having said so, as well as many fans having had the expectation that he would get moved.

 

What may very well end up happening is what happens to so many players out there, and he may just eventually get traded at the deadline due to the reality that he’s an impending free agent. If that’s the case, then people talked about him being shipped constantly, well in advance, without anything transpiring. If you ask me, that’s demonstrative of a player having generated even more buzz than your average joe around the league.

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Never ask an Oilers fan what they would give up for Max Pacioretty.  I saw a guy say the best offer he could make for Pacioretty was Kirill Maksimov and a 2nd round pick.

 

I'd add not to ask Oilers reporters what they think fair value for a Pacioretty trade is...

 

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/max-pacioretty-to-the-edmonton-oilers-thats-what-habs-fans-hope-to-see

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I'd add not to ask Oilers reporters what they think fair value for a Pacioretty trade is...

 

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/max-pacioretty-to-the-edmonton-oilers-thats-what-habs-fans-hope-to-see

 

The sad thing is I actually agree with the writer's principal concern, which is Pacioretty's age. I suspect he may already be entering his decline (although I doubt it will be preciptious, like Heatley's - more likely those slumps will gradually start lasting longer, etc.). So who knows, maybe the rest of the league is smarter than I think it is. Patches on a 4 year deal makes considerable sense for a contending club, however.

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5 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I'd add not to ask Oilers reporters what they think fair value for a Pacioretty trade is...

 

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/max-pacioretty-to-the-edmonton-oilers-thats-what-habs-fans-hope-to-see

 

I'm 45% sure you just posted this so we'd all see your name in the article :P

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10 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The sad thing is I actually agree with the writer's principal concern, which is Pacioretty's age. I suspect he may already be entering his decline (although I doubt it will be preciptious, like Heatley's - more likely those slumps will gradually start lasting longer, etc.). So who knows, maybe the rest of the league is smarter than I think it is. Patches on a 4 year deal makes considerable sense for a contending club, however.

 

JVR at the same age as a PP specialist in Toronto who ghosts in the playoffs and still got a five year deal with Philly. Pacioretty is a much better player. Judging by age is a mistake too. I would rather overpay for Pacioretty than commit to Zucker or Wilson at the money and term Washington and Minnesota did.

 

His mistake is pushing for eight years. Five is a good spot, three is perfect. I get why players do it and why agents push for the most years, but I think it's far more benefiting for a player to take a short term deal with a contender, win a Cup or get close, *then* cash in on the retirement deal with someone who can afford you and just wants you in the locker. Iginla was unsuccessful, mostly because he started late, but he had the right idea: leave your original team in your late 20s, be a mercenary for the best teams in the league, finish up on a three year deal somewhere well into your vet years based on reputation.

 

Instead these guys get so focused on a new long term home they forget that the game has shorter and shorter windows for teams. You are better off being a hired gun leaving your prime like Hull was and then cash out when you are one foot out the door.

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24 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

JVR at the same age as a PP specialist in Toronto who ghosts in the playoffs and still got a five year deal with Philly. Pacioretty is a much better player. Judging by age is a mistake too. I would rather overpay for Pacioretty than commit to Zucker or Wilson at the money and term Washington and Minnesota did.

 

His mistake is pushing for eight years. Five is a good spot, three is perfect. I get why players do it and why agents push for the most years, but I think it's far more benefiting for a player to take a short term deal with a contender, win a Cup or get close, *then* cash in on the retirement deal with someone who can afford you and just wants you in the locker. Iginla was unsuccessful, mostly because he started late, but he had the right idea: leave your original team in your late 20s, be a mercenary for the best teams in the league, finish up on a three year deal somewhere well into your vet years based on reputation.

 

Instead these guys get so focused on a new long term home they forget that the game has shorter and shorter windows for teams. You are better off being a hired gun leaving your prime like Hull was and then cash out when you are one foot out the door.

 

It's hard to resist the idea that Patches is determined to make up for the lost millions that his previous contract cost him. The irony is that that ridiculously cap-friendly deal, which we all crowed about, may end up biting us big-time by lowering his trade value (if he sticks to his guns).

 

Given the danger of either decline or injury, I'm not sure I share your view of how players should proceed. They also have families who maybe don't feel like uprooting every couple of years - which is often very hard on the kids especially. So I can totally see a player opting for term and security over the 'mercenary' approach.

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Outside of having pronounced Pacioretty dead to the future of the organization, I don’t see how anything at all has hurt his trade value. While Pacioretty was demanding too much, if everything with the Kings is true, they were also low balling him with an offer of 6x6, which is also too low for him. I don’t know what he will end up getting but what I do know is that Pacioretty is well worth 8x8. I’m not saying I would pay it myself, but it’s not far off from what I would give him and people get too caught up in 500,000 to a million. The term is a couple of years too long, admittedly, but the money isn’t so far off from what he deserves, especially with the cap going up year after year.

 

Signing an extension with whichever team he’s traded to is also a byproduct of the organization having made it obvious that they’d like to move him. Any normal situation would have played out differently. 

 

 

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