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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

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hab29RETIRED    164
1 hour ago, Habsfan1989 said:

We need to improve our centre position . When we are scoring it's because our centres are making plays. 2nd half of the season when teams play harder and our centres disappear and we don't score. It happens ever year.

 

time to blow up our centres.

trade  call up the avs trade

to avs

galchenyuk + emelin + a prospect

 

to habs

duchene

 

trade plekanec for a pick

 

sign hanzal and stone resign radulov

 

pacioretty-duchene-radulov

lehkonen-hanzal-Gallagher 

byron-danault-shaw

king-Mitchell-martinsen

 

stone-weber

benn-petry

markov-beaulieu

 

price

montoya

 

 

I wouldn't even want to trade galchenyuk straight up for duschane if Colorado came calling, let alone the ransom that MB will probably end up paying.

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45 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What's our track record in the first round Since taking Price?

 

2005-Price - only good pick that was almost ruined in development

2006-Fischer - useless pick

2007-McDonough - given away for garbage (I'm not counting pacioretty who was picked with  a San Jose pick)

2008-kristo- dumped for peanuts

2009-Leblanc- dumped and should never have been picked

2010- tinordi- dumped for peanuts

2011-Beaulieu - will probably be dumped or middle to bottom pairing in Montreal 

2012 -galchenyuk- should be a #1 or at worst #2 centre, but will probably be dumped

2013 -mcarron - bottom 6

2014 -schrebak - still in AHL

2015 -juulson - hopefully will be a top 4

2016 - sergachev - looks like a legitimate future top pairing dman- if we don't Fxck up his development

 

anyways, that's a hardly a great success.   If you exclude the two guys still in junior, we have have a franchise goalie, one guy who should be a front line player, one top D we gave away, two guys who are bottom pairing dman/bottom 6 forwards (and mccarron should not have been taken before the 3rd round), one guy in the minors who HOPEFULLY becomes a top 6 winger and  three wasted picks.  We picked 4 legitimate top players with our 1st round picks, So yeah, I'd give up four 1st rounders.

 

Even when we picked promising players we fxcked up their development.  Id be willing to give up four 1st rounders for a guy who already has developed into a top centre and is only 21. Hell I'd offer $10m for 7 years to make sure we get him.  We've proven that we can't draft and develop a top line centre.  Koivu was the last guy close to being a top line centre, but he was never the same after blowing his knee. MB and his foxhole buddy have totally messed up galchenyuk, who SHOULD be a top line centre.

 

Great post. Unfortunately, MB is unlikely to say, 'tabernac, we are useless with first round picks, so let's sacrifice them on an offer sheet.' But you make a good case. If there is any team that can get away with this, it's one with a crappy track record at the draft and few stud prospects that the other team can use to retaliate - i.e., Bergevin's Habs.

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hab29RETIRED    164
35 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Great post. Unfortunately, MB is unlikely to say, 'tabernac, we are useless with first round picks, so let's sacrifice them on an offer sheet.' But you make a good case. If there is any team that can get away with this, it's one with a crappy track record at the draft and few stud prospects that the other team can use to retaliate - i.e., Bergevin's Habs.

Even if we had a good record, I think a 20 or 21 year old top 10 scorer and top line centre is worth giving up four 1st round picks - particularly if you are going to be a playoff/contending team.  I doubt if you are going to draft a guy like draisatl as a playoff team.  I'd also have a 21 year locked up until they are 28 or 29, than pay big bucks and term to a 27 to 29 year old UFA who will declining in 2 or 3 years.

 

If I'm MB's shoes the only question I have, is do you offer him $9m or $10m to make sure the oilers don't match 

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Stogey24    233
46 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Even if we had a good record, I think a 20 or 21 year old top 10 scorer and top line centre is worth giving up four 1st round picks - particularly if you are going to be a playoff/contending team.  I doubt if you are going to draft a guy like draisatl as a playoff team.  I'd also have a 21 year locked up until they are 28 or 29, than pay big bucks and term to a 27 to 29 year old UFA who will declining in 2 or 3 years.

 

If I'm MB's shoes the only question I have, is do you offer him $9m or $10m to make sure the oilers don't match 

That's the mind set of a fan. 

 

You start doing shit like that and g.m's around the league take notice. Dangerous thing burning bridges. 

 

I just don't think thats a road Beregvin want to go down. Basically the reason no ones does it. 

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Dalhabs    78

I still see the Bruins trading Kessel for Seguin, another top 1st rounder and more... 

I dont want to see Edmonton drafting great players with our four1strounders.

 

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hab29RETIRED    164
2 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

That's the mind set of a fan. 

 

You start doing shit like that and g.m's around the league take notice. Dangerous thing burning bridges. 

 

I just don't think thats a road Beregvin want to go down. Basically the reason no ones does it. 

Who cares what other teams think.  Wilson did it with Chicago.  I don't see anyone not dealing with him anymore.  Bottom line is the gm who has tried signing a washed up UFA centre and finds it so hard to make a trade for a centre, drafting a centre, or developing a centre when he finally gets one, really has only one choice left.  The nuclear RFA option.

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hab29RETIRED    164
53 minutes ago, Dalhabs said:

I still see the Bruins trading Kessel for Seguin, another top 1st rounder and more... 

I dont want to see Edmonton drafting great players with our four1strounders.

 

Kessel was not a guy to build a team around.  Draisatl is a complete player who has been compared to kopitar - but looks like has more offence.  He is 21, finished 8th in scoring, and led his team in the playoffs.  

 

When the leafs made that trade they were at the start of a rebuild.  They didn't have defence, offence or a goalie.  Our window is now.  the guys we would be drafting in the next 4 years are not going to be here when Price and Weber and maxpac are productive.  We should be picking no better than 18th.  I'm good with giving up late first rounders for a franchise centre.

 

if we go the course, we are going to be just good enough to make the playoffs and possibly win a round.  If we don't do something significant, we may not even make the playoffs, given that the two Florida teams should get into the playoffs next year.  But I can't see us getting a top 5 pick unless we lose Price again.

 

 

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dlbalr    654
13 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If I'm MB's shoes the only question I have, is do you offer him $9m or $10m to make sure the oilers don't match 

 

Wouldn't that then cripple Montreal's cap moving forward?  Put that deal in there, somehow convince Price that he's not the franchise player all of a sudden to try to get him to take a bit less on his new deal (that will be a tough sell), and add Weber's deal and that's 1/3 of the cap going to three players.  That's a tough situation for any team to try to navigate, especially one that doesn't have a lot of pull in college free agency (teams like Chicago have used that extensively to fill their bottom lines).

 

9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Who cares what other teams think.  Wilson did it with Chicago.  I don't see anyone not dealing with him anymore.  Bottom line is the gm who has tried signing a washed up UFA centre and finds it so hard to make a trade for a centre, drafting a centre, or developing a centre when he finally gets one, really has only one choice left.  The nuclear RFA option.

 

Wilson did what with Chicago?  There is no Wilson in Chicago.  Stan Bowman is the GM there and he hasn't signed anyone to an offer sheet.

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One thing that Habs29 understands is that this team is entering 'desperation' territory. It's not clear that MB understands this, since he has claimed not to believe in a Cup window. Maybe his theory is that Price will single-handedly give us a chance to win until he turns 38. But less deluded souls recognize that players start declining, typically in their early to mid 30s. This means that Patches, Price, Radu, and Weber - the defining players of this core - are right at the apex of their careers, or in Weber's case entering the downside. Nor is there much help coming from the farm, except for Sergachev. Finally, even if you have a great team, it may take a few tries before it wins. And this team is not great, being handicapped by the most laughably inept C configuration of any team in the NHL. 

 

Therefore, this team has to lift every rock, explore every back alley, in order to fix the crippling weakness that is keeping it from truly contending within its window. The normal rules ('no offer sheets,' etc.) increasingly need to be suspended. Otherwise the Bergevin era will come and go with zip to show except a decimated farm system.

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Commandant    606

I'm not a fan of the offer sheet. 

 

1) Most teams match anyway.  So you tie up your money for 7 days, taking you out of the UFA market, and all the good UFAs sign in the meantime. 

2) You have to overpay so that they don't match, crippling your own cap. 

3) You have compensation, which is based on what you paid.... which from points #1, 2, has to be an overpay so they don't match.  Your compensation is now based on that overpay.  You cripple your farm system for years. 

 

Fact is that these don't work.  

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27 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I'm not a fan of the offer sheet. 

 

1) Most teams match anyway.  So you tie up your money for 7 days, taking you out of the UFA market, and all the good UFAs sign in the meantime. 

2) You have to overpay so that they don't match, crippling your own cap. 

3) You have compensation, which is based on what you paid.... which from points #1, 2, has to be an overpay so they don't match.  Your compensation is now based on that overpay.  You cripple your farm system for years. 

 

Fact is that these don't work.  

 

I'm agnostic on the offer sheet thing, but I like the fact that Habs29 is thinking outside the box. This team is going to need some dynamic, creative moves if it hopes to contend.

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PMAC    81
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

One thing that Habs29 understands is that this team is entering 'desperation' territory. It's not clear that MB understands this, since he has claimed not to believe in a Cup window. Maybe his theory is that Price will single-handedly give us a chance to win until he turns 38. But less deluded souls recognize that players start declining, typically in their early to mid 30s. This means that Patches, Price, Radu, and Weber - the defining players of this core - are right at the apex of their careers, or in Weber's case entering the downside. Nor is there much help coming from the farm, except for Sergachev. Finally, even if you have a great team, it may take a few tries before it wins. And this team is not great, being handicapped by the most laughably inept C configuration of any team in the NHL. 

 

Therefore, this team has to lift every rock, explore every back alley, in order to fix the crippling weakness that is keeping it from truly contending within its window. The normal rules ('no offer sheets,' etc.) increasingly need to be suspended. Otherwise the Bergevin era will come and go with zip to show except a decimated farm system.

Speaking of any option what about Stephane de Costa? Surely he's worthy of an offer as a possible 2nd C that would cost nothing to acquire? Given that we all know that the farm hasn't been as productive as it should be we need more ufa acquisitions that aren't going to break the bank

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nihilz    29

I read that Vegas can sign RFAs and trade them to other teams. This is a very interesting tool and makes McPhee a very powerful man.

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hab29RETIRED    164
3 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

Wouldn't that then cripple Montreal's cap moving forward?  Put that deal in there, somehow convince Price that he's not the franchise player all of a sudden to try to get him to take a bit less on his new deal (that will be a tough sell), and add Weber's deal and that's 1/3 of the cap going to three players.  That's a tough situation for any team to try to navigate, especially one that doesn't have a lot of pull in college free agency (teams like Chicago have used that extensively to fill their bottom lines).

 

 

Wilson did what with Chicago?  There is no Wilson in Chicago.  Stan Bowman is the GM there and he hasn't signed anyone to an offer sheet.

Wilson (sj), offer sheeted chicago.

 

i think if price wants more than $8.5m (I really wouldn't want to go over $8m), you move him. He is going to want 8 years.  Do you want to be locked into price for 8 years at $9m or $10m?  I'd be willling to do that with a 21 or 22 y at old centre.  I sure the heck don't want to be locked into that with a 29 or 30 year old old goalie.  Look at lundquist today.  Even $8.5m is a mistake.  Weber you hopefully can move once his salary drops.

 

Bottom line, id rather pay a #1 centre $9m than a goalie.

 

Team have one one with good goalies and elite centres.  When was the last time a team with an elite goalie, but not an elite centre  win the cup?

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hab29RETIRED    164
2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

One thing that Habs29 understands is that this team is entering 'desperation' territory. It's not clear that MB understands this, since he has claimed not to believe in a Cup window. Maybe his theory is that Price will single-handedly give us a chance to win until he turns 38. But less deluded souls recognize that players start declining, typically in their early to mid 30s. This means that Patches, Price, Radu, and Weber - the defining players of this core - are right at the apex of their careers, or in Weber's case entering the downside. Nor is there much help coming from the farm, except for Sergachev. Finally, even if you have a great team, it may take a few tries before it wins. And this team is not great, being handicapped by the most laughably inept C configuration of any team in the NHL. 

 

Therefore, this team has to lift every rock, explore every back alley, in order to fix the crippling weakness that is keeping it from truly contending within its window. The normal rules ('no offer sheets,' etc.) increasingly need to be suspended. Otherwise the Bergevin era will come and go with zip to show except a decimated farm system.

Exactly.

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hab29RETIRED    164
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I'm not a fan of the offer sheet. 

 

1) Most teams match anyway.  So you tie up your money for 7 days, taking you out of the UFA market, and all the good UFAs sign in the meantime. 

2) You have to overpay so that they don't match, crippling your own cap. 

3) You have compensation, which is based on what you paid.... which from points #1, 2, has to be an overpay so they don't match.  Your compensation is now based on that overpay.  You cripple your farm system for years. 

 

Fact is that these don't work.  

If Edmonton matches so be it.  Bottom line, they need to pay mcdavid, and they need to pay him more than draisaitl.

 

id rather overpay a young rfa than an old ufa.

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JoeLassister    272
31 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If Edmonton matches so be it.  Bottom line, they need to pay mcdavid, and they need to pay him more than draisaitl.

 

id rather overpay a young rfa than an old ufa.

Yah.  But thing is :  you don't have to give away  4 first rounders to overpay an old UFA...

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Commandant    606
1 hour ago, nihilz said:

I read that Vegas can sign RFAs and trade them to other teams. This is a very interesting tool and makes McPhee a very powerful man.

 

1) They have to be left unprotected. 

2) They count as Vegas' draft pick from that team. 

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Commandant    606
1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If Edmonton matches so be it.  Bottom line, they need to pay mcdavid, and they need to pay him more than draisaitl.

 

id rather overpay a young rfa than an old ufa.

 

Id rather have draft picks to surround Draisatl with going forward.  No player can win a cup without a supporting cast. 

Without the draft picks, you can't acquire cheap talent to surround Draisatl with. 

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Commandant    606
1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Wilson (sj), offer sheeted chicago.

 

i think if price wants more than $8.5m (I really wouldn't want to go over $8m), you move him. He is going to want 8 years.  Do you want to be locked into price for 8 years at $9m or $10m?  I'd be willling to do that with a 21 or 22 y at old centre.  I sure the heck don't want to be locked into that with a 29 or 30 year old old goalie.  Look at lundquist today.  Even $8.5m is a mistake.  Weber you hopefully can move once his salary drops.

 

Bottom line, id rather pay a #1 centre $9m than a goalie.

 

Team have one one with good goalies and elite centres.  When was the last time a team with an elite goalie, but not an elite centre  win the cup?

 

And what did it get Wilson.

 

Chicago matched the offer on Hjarmalsson. 

 

He got Niemi who the Blackhawks were forced to let go. 

 

Niemi was overpaid and sucked. 

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Commandant    606
1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

 

 

Also offer sheeted was Dustin Penner, and the Ducks didnt match. 

 

How'd that work out for Edmonton?

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hab29RETIRED    164
1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

Yah.  But thing is :  you don't have to give away  4 first rounders to overpay an old UFA...

What would you give up for Tavares?  Player/draft Equivalents probably equate to at least 3 first rounders.   I'd be willing to give up more for a 21 year old draisaitl.

 

draisaitl is a known commidity.  The draft picks are rolling the dice.  At least two will probably be at best bottom pairing dmen or bottom six depth, which today are a dime a dozen 

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hab29RETIRED    164
18 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Id rather have draft picks to surround Draisatl with going forward.  No player can win a cup without a supporting cast. 

Without the draft picks, you can't acquire cheap talent to surround Draisatl with. 

With draisaitl we can try winning NOW.  Our window is now.

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hab29RETIRED    164
18 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

And what did it get Wilson.

 

Chicago matched the offer on Hjarmalsson. 

 

He got Niemi who the Blackhawks were forced to let go. 

 

Niemi was overpaid and sucked. 

They screwed over a conference rivals payroll than went after a goalie who was average. First step was good move, second step sucked. 

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hab29RETIRED    164
30 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Also offer sheeted was Dustin Penner, and the Ducks didnt match. 

 

How'd that work out for Edmonton?

Again. Edmonton target the wrong player on the ducks.  You think draisaitl and penner are the equival by players, or think draisaitl has same ceiling as penner??  Really????  Penner at no time was considered to have draisaitl's ceiling.  Penner had a John druce year.   Lowe is an idiot who went after penner after vanek didn't work out - like Wilson going after neimi.   i know you like being argumentative, but get real.

 

if you were to trade for Tavares, who would you give up??  Probably top line player like galchenyuk and at least two first rounders.  I'd give up more for draisaitl at 21 than I would for Tavares at 27.  Signing draisaitl for 7 years, makes more sense than signing Tavares for seven years when he is 28.

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