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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

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dlbalr    691
30 minutes ago, illWill said:

Yes, 86 to 73 to 67 to 58 is a decline, but he'd still be our #1a/b center. Just because a player is in decline doesn't mean he isnt' still impactful. It's like saying well Gretzky went from 215 to 183 to 149, so we don't want him. Giroux couldn't carry Gretzky's jock, but the point remains the same. This team needs offense and we aren't in a position to be picky about where it comes from. Unless we just want to blow the whole thing up and rebuild

 

Giroux is on pace for 92 points this year, so it's safe to say his downward trend will be finished. Maybe he is better at the wing, I don't know, I don't watch Philly games. A third of the season through is a decent sample size for a former Hart nominee to show he can still play. 

3

 

Giroux took off when he was shifted to the wing.  He's a better fit there at this stage of his career than down the middle.

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45 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Giroux took off when he was shifted to the wing.  He's a better fit there at this stage of his career than down the middle.

 

Bingo.

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illWill    431
40 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Giroux took off when he was shifted to the wing.  He's a better fit there at this stage of his career than down the middle.

 

Regardless, this team needs an infusion of offense. Whether Giroux fits in better as a winger or a center on the Habs isn't as important as getting a guy like him. Like I said, Montreal needs to either use their cap space to acquire such a player, or just blow the team up. There should not be an in between. And if there's a possibility to acquire an offensive player, we're not in a position to be picky.

 

I don't see any reasonable proposals from people that denounce the ones that are made on here. 

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Commandant    632
1 hour ago, illWill said:

Yes, 86 to 73 to 67 to 58 is a decline, but he'd still be our #1a/b center. Just because a player is in decline doesn't mean he isnt' still impactful. It's like saying well Gretzky went from 215 to 183 to 149, so we don't want him. Giroux couldn't carry Gretzky's jock, but the point remains the same. This team needs offense and we aren't in a position to be picky about where it comes from. Unless we just want to blow the whole thing up and rebuild

 

Giroux is on pace for 92 points this year, so it's safe to say his downward trend will be finished. Maybe he is better at the wing, I don't know, I don't watch Philly games. A third of the season through is a decent sample size for a former Hart nominee to show he can still play. 

3

 

At 8.2 million per season, and 4 years of term... and a player entering his 30s... thats very concerning.   

And at 8.2 million, I don't want a 60 point centre.  Not at that price. 

In addition its not "safe to say a downward trend may be finished" based on a good 20 games played on the wing instead of centre. 

1/4 of a season does not trump 4 years of decline. 

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Commandant    632
58 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Giroux took off when he was shifted to the wing.  He's a better fit there at this stage of his career than down the middle.

 

Exactly.  Less skating for a guy who has lost a half step.  Less defensive responsibility too. 

 

We also have to look out how Sean Couturier has been an absolute beast in all aspects of the game this year.  He's really taken a step forward. 

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dlbalr    691
13 minutes ago, illWill said:

Regardless, this team needs an infusion of offense. Whether Giroux fits in better as a winger or a center on the Habs isn't as important as getting a guy like him. Like I said, Montreal needs to either use their cap space to acquire such a player, or just blow the team up. There should not be an in between. And if there's a possibility to acquire an offensive player, we're not in a position to be picky.

 

I don't see any reasonable proposals from people that denounce the ones that are made on here. 

 

 

I certainly agree that they need offence and Giroux would help for sure.  The contract is terrifying though.  Yes, they have space this season (though nowhere near enough to absorb the full cap hit outright) but flexibility beyond this year starts to shrink considerably.  A player on a contract like Giroux's would basically shut them out of free agency next summer as well and that's a tough commitment to make when you're on the playoff bubble.  Guys on short-term contracts is the better way to go.

 

Now that I've said that, permit me to throw out a general idea that goes against that and may also terrify people at the same time:

 

To Montreal

Milan Lucic ($6M through 2022-23, NMC)

 

To Edmonton

Karl Alzner ($4.625M through 2021-22, 7-team NTC)

 

(Straight up likely is a no-go but that would be the base of the trade.)

 

Why for Montreal?  If they like what they see from Jerabek, want to keep Mete around, and think Schlemko can help, Alzner becomes expendable and would allow them to get out of the contract.  Lucic would give them some sandpaper up front and we all know how effective he could be in Boston with Julien.  We also know he nearly signed in Montreal last summer.

 

Why for Edmonton?  They need a defensive-minded d-man, get out of a year of Lucic's contract, and free up a bit of money for next summer and beyond which would be useful if they intend to try to keep Nugent-Hopkins around.

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illWill    431
11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

At 8.2 million per season, and 4 years of term... and a player entering his 30s... thats very concerning.   

And at 8.2 million, I don't want a 60 point centre.  Not at that price. 

In addition its not "safe to say a downward trend may be finished" based on a good 20 games played on the wing instead of centre. 

1/4 of a season does not trump 4 years of decline. 

 

Giroux's contract is very concerning, it's all relative though. We wouldn't be giving up a ton to get him at the full amount, and would have to sweeten the deal if they were to retain some of it. 

 

My point was that his point totals have declined in successive seasons, but that trend will most likely stop this season as he will top his 58 points from 2016-17. Maybe as he ages he will in fact be better on the wing, but all that means is that he will still be a very productive player. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

 

To Montreal

Milan Lucic ($6M through 2022-23, NMC)

 

To Edmonton

Karl Alzner ($4.625M through 2021-22, 7-team NTC)

 

(Straight up likely is a no-go but that would be the base of the trade.)

 

Why for Montreal?  If they like what they see from Jerabek, want to keep Mete around, and think Schlemko can help, Alzner becomes expendable and would allow them to get out of the contract.  Lucic would give them some sandpaper up front and we all know how effective he could be in Boston with Julien.  We also know he nearly signed in Montreal last summer.

 

Why for Edmonton?  They need a defensive-minded d-man, get out of a year of Lucic's contract, and free up a bit of money for next summer and beyond which would be useful if they intend to try to keep Nugent-Hopkins around.

 

Depending on the other pieces involved, I'd do that deal all day. One UFA over payment for another. I'm sure Montreal would have to tip the scale with a pick/prospect in order to facilitate that one though

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Commandant    632

I think Ryan Nugent Hopkins is a much better option than Giroux if you are targeting a center. 

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dlbalr    691
45 minutes ago, illWill said:

Giroux's contract is very concerning, it's all relative though. We wouldn't be giving up a ton to get him at the full amount, and would have to sweeten the deal if they were to retain some of it.

1

 

Why wouldn't the Habs be giving up a lot to take on the full contract?  Last summer there was a case to be made for that but because he's off to the hot start, they'd be buying high.  Right now (this 20-game stretch), he's living up to the deal so it wouldn't just be a cap dump.  If you're looking at him as a buy-low candidate because of the contract, I think that ship has sailed for at least a year unless he falls off a cliff the rest of the way.

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illWill    431
25 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Why wouldn't the Habs be giving up a lot to take on the full contract?  Last summer there was a case to be made for that but because he's off to the hot start, they'd be buying high.  Right now (this 20-game stretch), he's living up to the deal so it wouldn't just be a cap dump.  If you're looking at him as a buy-low candidate because of the contract, I think that ship has sailed for at least a year unless he falls off a cliff the rest of the way.

 

I suppose it matters what a person's definition of "a lot" means. My original proposal of Juulsen and a 1st rounder doesn't seem like a lot to me but it might for others. If Philly were to retain some salary, Giroux's value is that much greater, thus results in a better return for him. 

 

Phil Kessel was almost a point per game player when he got traded, Toronto retained some salary and the return for him was still underwhelming in my opinion. 

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hab29RETIRED    175
2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I certainly agree that they need offence and Giroux would help for sure.  The contract is terrifying though.  Yes, they have space this season (though nowhere near enough to absorb the full cap hit outright) but flexibility beyond this year starts to shrink considerably.  A player on a contract like Giroux's would basically shut them out of free agency next summer as well and that's a tough commitment to make when you're on the playoff bubble.  Guys on short-term contracts is the better way to go.

 

Now that I've said that, permit me to throw out a general idea that goes against that and may also terrify people at the same time:

 

To Montreal

Milan Lucic ($6M through 2022-23, NMC)

 

To Edmonton

Karl Alzner ($4.625M through 2021-22, 7-team NTC)

 

(Straight up likely is a no-go but that would be the base of the trade.)

 

Why for Montreal?  If they like what they see from Jerabek, want to keep Mete around, and think Schlemko can help, Alzner becomes expendable and would allow them to get out of the contract.  Lucic would give them some sandpaper up front and we all know how effective he could be in Boston with Julien.  We also know he nearly signed in Montreal last summer.

 

Why for Edmonton?  They need a defensive-minded d-man, get out of a year of Lucic's contract, and free up a bit of money for next summer and beyond which would be useful if they intend to try to keep Nugent-Hopkins around.

That sounds like trading colon cancer for prostrate cancer.  If that gorilla can’t produce more with the 3 centre options the oilers have, what are the chances he will do better here. Besides, as a habs fan he’s public enemy #2.

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Neech    85
On 8/2/2017 at 9:00 PM, Commandant said:

Giroux to me is in a Gomez situation.  That contract with 5 years and 8 million on it is looking like an albatross.  His points have gone down 4 years in a row. He didn't crack 60 points last year.  He did nothing 5v5 and feasted on the PP.  I think his value is really diminished by that deal. 

 

I wouldn't give up more for him than the Penguins gave up for Kessel... in fact it would be less than what was given for Kessel. 

 

Scherbak, Lernout, 1st. 

 

Has your opinion changed at all here?  Giroux is the kind of player this roster needs in place of Plekanec.  Of course I'd rather Tavares or the like, but I'd settle for Giroux.  

 

The haul the Avs got for Duchene might have screwed up the market for us, however.

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Commandant    632
38 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

Has your opinion changed at all here?  Giroux is the kind of player this roster needs in place of Plekanec.  Of course I'd rather Tavares or the like, but I'd settle for Giroux.  

 

The haul the Avs got for Duchene might have screwed up the market for us, however.

 

Giroux still scares me with that contract.  His first 20 games, at LW were outstanding.  He's cooled since then and the 4 years remaining is the scary thing. 

 

The guy who I want (and who will be available either in the summer or sooner if the Oilers keep going the way they are) is Ryan Nugent Hopkins. 

I think his contract is workable and a Drouin, RNH, Danault centre group would be a good one. 

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BCHabnut    172

RNH is very underrated defensively. I like his game. But who do you give up? Habs prospect cupboard ain't exactly full. Can't lose top 4 defense which they will probably want. 

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Trizzak    483

Nuge would be nice, but Chiarelli would be smart to wait until the offseason when more teams would be looking for a centerman, unless he feels like shaking that team's core midseason to send a message. 

 

Not a whole lot of actual filling-a-need centers available from the probable sellers... Filppula in Philly, but he's already shot down one trade to the Habs last season.  Vermette in Anaheim would be a Pleks replacement, but Pleks ain't moving if the Habs are gunning for the playoffs. 

 

Maybe Stepan in Arizona if ownership tells the GM to scrape the cap floor and reeeeeeeeeally push a youth movement. 

 

We'll see what happens later on in the season, but Nuge would be reeeeeeeeally nice. 

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Neech    85
2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Giroux still scares me with that contract.  His first 20 games, at LW were outstanding.  He's cooled since then and the 4 years remaining is the scary thing. 

 

The guy who I want (and who will be available either in the summer or sooner if the Oilers keep going the way they are) is Ryan Nugent Hopkins. 

I think his contract is workable and a Drouin, RNH, Danault centre group would be a good one. 

 

Oh I didn't know Giroux's been playing wing.  I wouldn't mind his contract that much because our window doesn't seem like it'll be open for very long.

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Commandant    632
7 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

RNH is very underrated defensively. I like his game. But who do you give up? Habs prospect cupboard ain't exactly full. Can't lose top 4 defense which they will probably want. 

 

The oilers need to shed cap for next season.

 

The obvious place this starts is Noah Juulsen.  As the oilers really need RHD not as much lefties.  

 

From there youd have to add and significantly.  Probably a winger like either gallagher or byron who can score but has a cheap contract.

 

And a 1st rounder.

 

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BCHabnut    172

Juulsen, Byron, 1st. 2018. Done. 

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Chris    3

Why would the habs trade Byron plus for RNH? 

 

He is one of the best habs forwards, does everything and scores more than RNH. Best contract in the league. 

 

Pacioretty for Draisettel straight up i would do. 

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Stogey24    277

Well no shit. Who wouldn't do that trade 

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Meller93    124
Just now, Stogey24 said:

Well no shit. Who wouldn't do that trade 

Was about to make a similar post lol

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JGC21    52
8 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

The oilers need to shed cap for next season.

 

The obvious place this starts is Noah Juulsen.  As the oilers really need RHD not as much lefties.  

 

From there youd have to add and significantly.  Probably a winger like either gallagher or byron who can score but has a cheap contract.

 

And a 1st rounder.

 

No way I’m trading Juulsen or Mete, they are the future on defense.

 

I’d rather send Alzner, Lehkonen, Lindgren, forward prospect & 1st for RNH.

 

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Metallica    1

Sadly I don’t see MB making any trades. The only time he will improve this team is on July 1st. With this cap space it scares me to see who he will over pay for .

 

he isn’t giving up on this core so that means pacioretty, galchenyuk and Gallagher (only bargaining chips he has to trade) aren’t going to be traded.  Unless he gets exactly what he wants. So that leaves prospects, which we have very little of. So based on that I don’t see much happening at the deadline. If he could of made a trade he would of by know. That’s what happens when you back yourself in a corner.

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Commandant    632
5 hours ago, Chris said:

Why would the habs trade Byron plus for RNH? 

 

He is one of the best habs forwards, does everything and scores more than RNH. Best contract in the league. 

 

Pacioretty for Draisettel straight up i would do. 

 

Why not throw in plekanec and see if they would include mcdavid.

 

You have to give to get.

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Commandant    632
27 minutes ago, JGC21 said:

No way I’m trading Juulsen or Mete, they are the future on defense.

 

I’d rather send Alzner, Lehkonen, Lindgren, forward prospect & 1st for RNH.

 

The oilers trade rnh free cap space... not to take alzner who plays Ld (which they dont need)

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