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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

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18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, remember, I'm not fixated on the super-hero #1C. This team needs legit top-6 C and ROR clearly is that. To be honest, though, I'm not sure what I'd send back. Thoughts?

If we do not get Dahlin on April 28th. I would  trade our 1st, one of our 2nds, and DeLaRose for ROR.

 

That would certainly fix our need at Center

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10 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

If we do not get Dahlin on April 28th. I would  trade our 1st, one of our 2nds, and DeLaRose for ROR.

 

That would certainly fix our need at Center

 

It would fix part of the need. We'd still be one C short, unless you believe that Drouin has officially grown into the role.

 

I'd be OK trading the 1st provided it's not too high a pick. Don't know about adding the 2nd. That's a bit rich for a more physical version of Tomas Plekanec in his prime - ? 

 

Given the abyssal hole at C I'm all right with a bit of an overpay on ROR but would prefer not to treat him like a stud #1C.

 

 

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But that is where the CH is now. With a deeper line-up that 2 years ago and some real assets to improve in the short term. Either they play their hand now, or rebuld

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I'm not trading a top 7 pick plus more assets for a 27 year old centre with a career high of 64 points and who has a huge cap hit... no way.

 

That is a move to go from what we are to become a playoff bubble team.. it is not a move that makes us a real contender for the cup. 

 

I'd rather build for 2-3 years then play patchwork and not create a true contender. 

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I like discussions like this because they illuminate that this club has no real chance of bouncing back without a major rebuild. 

 

Boston could retool because they had two top six centres, an elite winger, a HOF defenceman, and an elite goalie. Montreal could maybe argue 3 of those but Marchand is a better player than Pacioretty and I would take Chara in a playoff game over Weber. That and the Habs haven't drafted a kid like Pastrnak in a long time. Galchenyuk has the potential but it is never happening in Montreal. Boston was also able to retool by getting rid of Claude Julien. 

 

But hey hold onto the dream of signing Tavares, drafting Dahlin, Price bouncing back and remaining healthy, Weber returning at 100%, Pacioretty re-signing for under $7M or being traded for a legit player and not just picks, and that defence ever getting the puck out of the zone with efficiency. With all that happening, maybe we make it out of the Atlantic division!

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Yeah, I wish ROR were a couple of years younger. His age , more than his production, is what bugs me about my own suggestion that we trade a high pick for him. I continue to think that MB would be massively negligent not to seriously explore acquiring ROR, but concede that a deal may not ultimately make sense organizationally. Everything depends on the return.

 

I'm like Commandant in that my preference is we go out and get a young C with #1 or #1A potential, probably in exchange for Patches. But if that guy is a prospect, then we won't be looking at contending in 3 years, because it may take longer for that guy to really blossom into a playoff-ready impact performer. What we really need to meet the 3-year window is a kid around 23-25 years old with NHL experience.  That's why I kept mooting Nuge, although with him now playing on the W that may be a non-starter for Edmonton.

 

What are some other potential targets in that age bracket, and what might we have to give up for them?

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I don’t want anyone who’s been on Buffalo anymore. The Habs do need a player who can lift a club and no one has done that on Buffalo.

 

With that biased perspective in place, I would have taken Evander Kane in our lineup even though LW isn’t a priority right now. 

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9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Yeah, I wish ROR were a couple of years younger.

 

We should have went hard after him after he signed the offer sheet with Calgary. I still think we could have beaten the Buffalo offer, even if they were high on Zadorov and Roy was convinced he could turn Grigorienko around. 

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27 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I don’t want anyone who’s been on Buffalo anymore. The Habs do need a player who can lift a club and no one has done that on Buffalo.

 

With that biased perspective in place, I would have taken Evander Kane in our lineup even though LW isn’t a priority right now. 

 

Well, again, I'm not looking for a Saviour. All I want are legitimate NHL top-6 C. So if Buffalo has one, I'm interested in principle.

 

As for Kane, he may well turn out to be yet another example of a guy traded because of "character issues" who turns out to be very productive and valuable to the team that had the sense to acquire him.

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I can't believe OReilly doesn't produce more. When I watch him,  I see  someone who can control the play.  Reminds me of a Thornton bergeron mix. I see a lot if skill and vision with mediocre results.

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15 hours ago, Commandant said:

then don't use any stat to filter it. 

 

Just take centres who score points, and are below a certain age.  You can go to other sites like corsica and use xG or Corsi or something more meaningful too. 

 

I mean Mark Scheifele's faceoff percentage is terrible, but the guy is a top 10 5 Centre in the NHL.  Same with Malkin.  (and no I'm not saying either player is available). 

 

Again Kings winning 60.5% of faceoffs here, and being outshot 27-12 to Vegas.

 

Find players who can put up points and control possession. 

Fixed that for you.

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36 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I can't believe OReilly doesn't produce more. When I watch him,  I see  someone who can control the play.  Reminds me of a Thornton bergeron mix. I see a lot if skill and vision with mediocre results.

 

Looks good until he actually has to put something at the net? Sounds like a 2018 Hab to me.

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I know it’s a pipe dream and maybe this belongs in a different thread and I’m sure I’ll get negative talk but this is what I would do....

 

 

Max67 J.Tavares* BGally

A.Galchenyuk  O’Reilly* Lehkonan 

Drouin Danault Hudon 

Byron JDLR Scherbak

DeLaurier* McCArron* A. Shaw*

Carr Evans L.Shaw

 

Calvin De Haan Weber

Mete petry

Reilly Juulsen 

Alzner* Benn*

Schlemko*

I. Cole

 

bold = additions 

* trade bait 

 

-keep in mind picks would be on the table to get o’reilly done and I’ve included him as an option because of talk of his availability...

MaCarron Shaw Schlemko Benn Alzner and as many multiple picks to get it done

 

- Tavares is a free asset

-Dahlin obviously would be a pipe dream

- Calvin  De Haan is a free asset

-I.Cole as 2nd option if we move a few depth dman for O’Rielly

 

this is not far fetched and we have cap space to make it happen I believe.

Obviously we could look at flipping pacioretty and others to upgrade the LD as well or recoup picks dealt for O’Reilly.

 

i dream of Cam Fowler ANA playing with Weber or a cheaper Edmundson STL 

 

My options for D would be as follows

 

Dahlin

Fowler

Edmundson

DeHaan

i.Cole

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We don't have the cap space to add Tavares, O'Reilly and DeHaan.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, again, I'm not looking for a Saviour. All I want are legitimate NHL top-6 C. So if Buffalo has one, I'm interested in principle.

 

As for Kane, he may well turn out to be yet another example of a guy traded because of "character issues" who turns out to be very productive and valuable to the team that had the sense to acquire him.

Kane’s a guy that I really wanted us to get years ago from Winnipeg, but I can’t see him ever succeeding under our management group.

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57 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I know it’s a pipe dream and maybe this belongs in a different thread and I’m sure I’ll get negative talk but this is what I would do....

 

 

Max67 J.Tavares* BGally

A.Galchenyuk  O’Reilly* Lehkonan 

Drouin Danault Hudon 

Byron JDLR Scherbak

DeLaurier* McCArron* A. Shaw*

Carr Evans L.Shaw

 

Calvin De Haan Weber

Mete petry

Reilly Juulsen 

Alzner* Benn*

Schlemko*

I. Cole

 

bold = additions 

* trade bait 

 

-keep in mind picks would be on the table to get o’reilly done and I’ve included him as an option because of talk of his availability...

MaCarron Shaw Schlemko Benn Alzner and as many multiple picks to get it done

 

- Tavares is a free asset

-Dahlin obviously would be a pipe dream

- Calvin  De Haan is a free asset

-I.Cole as 2nd option if we move a few depth dman for O’Rielly

 

this is not far fetched and we have cap space to make it happen I believe.

Obviously we could look at flipping pacioretty and others to upgrade the LD as well or recoup picks dealt for O’Reilly.

 

i dream of Cam Fowler ANA playing with Weber or a cheaper Edmundson STL 

 

My options for D would be as follows

 

Dahlin

Fowler

Edmundson

DeHaan

i.Cole

 

 

 

 

 

 

There no way we could fit all those guys under the cap.  Tavares alone would be at least $12m as a UFA

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4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Yeah, I wish ROR were a couple of years younger. His age , more than his production, is what bugs me about my own suggestion that we trade a high pick for him. I continue to think that MB would be massively negligent not to seriously explore acquiring ROR, but concede that a deal may not ultimately make sense organizationally. Everything depends on the return.

 

I'm like Commandant in that my preference is we go out and get a young C with #1 or #1A potential, probably in exchange for Patches. But if that guy is a prospect, then we won't be looking at contending in 3 years, because it may take longer for that guy to really blossom into a playoff-ready impact performer. What we really need to meet the 3-year window is a kid around 23-25 years old with NHL experience.  That's why I kept mooting Nuge, although with him now playing on the W that may be a non-starter for Edmonton.

 

What are some other potential targets in that age bracket, and what might we have to give up for them?

 

I don't see a lot of 23-25 year olds around the league that are centres and that teams are willing to give up.  Thats why I've been looking even younger.  For the guy who has potential but maybe his team doesn't want to wait for. 

 

a bit younger but maybe Arizona is tired of waiting on Dylan Strome and wants to move him for more immediate help. I think he should be in the NHL full time next year. 

 

another guy real close to being a full-time NHLer, Jack Roslovic in Winnipeg.  If they bow out of the playoffs, in say the second round to Nashville, are they willing to move him in a Pacioretty deal?

 

Add these to the Thomas, Steel, Borgstrom, Eriksson-Ek, Vilardi, suggestions we've heard a number of times. 

 

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

There no way we could fit all those guys under the cap.  Tavares alone would be at least $12m as a UFA

i obviously meant just the 23 man roster and 3 scratches. i included all our current depth

 

tavares 12

oreilly 7.5

DeHaan 4.5

danault 3

 

that would put us at the cap give or take and thats with patches next year...

however, no alzner no a.shaw (who i believe career is in jeopardy due to concussions) no 1 of benn or Schlemko

 

so yes its actually do-able with benn or schlemko (whoever we keep) and Deslaurier and McCarron or Carr as scratches

 

We cant over pay on DeHaan or Danault though

 

if we move patch for multiple picks and or prospects  and parlay all that into Fowler or any 7 million dollar LD then for sure we will fit under the cap. 

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2 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

i obviously meant just the 23 man roster and 3 scratches. i included all our current depth

 

tavares 12

oreilly 7.5

DeHaan 4.5

danault 3

 

that would put us at the cap give or take and thats with patches next year...

however, no alzner no a.shaw (who i believe career is in jeopardy due to concussions) no 1 of benn or Schlemko

 

so yes its actually do-able with benn or schlemko (whoever we keep) and Deslaurier and McCarron or Carr as scratches

 

We cant over pay on DeHaan or Danault though

 

if we move patch for multiple picks and or prospects  and parlay all that into Fowler or any 7 million dollar LD then for sure we will fit under the cap. 

 

I just did the math.... 

 

I moved Schlemko in a trade.

I also dropped Juulsen to the minors cause your roster was at 24. 
 

Your team has a cap hit of over 86 million. 

 

It doesn't work.

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line up A                           line up B

max                    4.5            scherbak 0.863

tavares             12.0

gallagher           3.75

 

galchenyuk       4.9

o'reilly                7.5

lehkonan          0.84

 

drouin               5.5

danault             3.0

hudon               0.65

 

byron                1.17

DeLaRose        1.0

scherbak          0.863      Deslaurier 0.950

 

weber              7.857

DeHaan           5               fowler 6.5    

petry               5.5

mete               0 .748

juulsen           0.863

reilly               0.725

 

price              10.5

lindgren          0.750

 

 

*Deslaurier        0.950      *Carr       1.0  (edited)

*McCarron       1.0 

*Benn                1.1

 

line up A  = 80.67 million 

line up B  = 78.67 million

cap 2019= 80-82 million estimated

 

bold= estimated cap hit

*=scratches

 

keep in mind i said thats starting the season with Max67! Moving pacioretty and shifting that cap to trade for my choice in Cam Fowler ANA or a way lesser costing  joel edmudson STL would be 9.5 million leveraged in say DeHaan's 5 million plus 4.5  in maX freeing up 3million .

 

roster moves

D. Carr signed waived or traded in line up A

D. Schlemko traded or  waived

K. Alzner traded or waived or bought out at only  72,000 relief (year 1)  -1.3(year 2) 

L. Shaw signed waived or traded

A. Shaw LTIR (Lupul and others) or traded
B. Froese waived or traded

 

other options

joel edmudson RFA  in a trade involving pacioretty and picks prospects

ian cole UFA

Dahlin with the lottery pick***HaHa

 

so yes it can be done if planned properly. sorry but we will not be better if all of benn schlemko and alzner are still around... but could you imagine a C depth of

tavares (27)

o'reilly (25)

danault (25)

delarose (22)

Mccarron (22)

drouin (22)

prospects

evans (21)

poehling (19)

ikonen (19)

 

thats 23 not 24! not sure how you got 86 million or 24 players

 

like i said, this is how i would try to fix this team!!  

still waiting on other arm chair GM's and there realistic plans

16 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I just did the math.... 

 

I moved Schlemko in a trade.

I also dropped Juulsen to the minors cause your roster was at 24. 
 

Your team has a cap hit of over 86 million. 

 

It doesn't work.

 

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I didn't Buyout Alzner or LTIR Shaw. 

 

However they don't just disappear as easily as you've said. 

 

1) LTIR is a little more complicated than you have it.  And the player's salary doesn't disappear off the cap.   you are allowed to go above the cap by that amount, but the issue will be this... if any of your rookies hit their bonuses, that contract will be a bonus overage.

 

2) You've got to get a doctor to say he's injured, and if the player disagrees, he can grieve it and go to his own specialist.  There is no indication at this point that Shaw is eligible.  In fact both the team and the player have indicated he's expected to play next year.  When the player isn't ready to walk away, good luck with this.

Karl Alzner's buyout cap hit may be a small savings in 2018-19, but its 4.4 million in 2020-21.  4.4 million in dead money that year, plus 2.4 million in 2021-22, plus 5 other years of 1.3 million... I can't see them buying him out.  Its not realistic. Nor does it make sense to take 7 years of massive hits to save 1 year of money.  You wont be able to keep the team together. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

I didn't Buyout Alzner or LTIR Shaw. 

 

However they don't just disappear as easily as you've said. 

 

1) LTIR is a little more complicated than you have it.  And the player's salary doesn't disappear off the cap.   you are allowed to go above the cap by that amount, but the issue will be this... if any of your rookies hit their bonuses, that contract will be a bonus overage.

 

2) You've got to get a doctor to say he's injured, and if the player disagrees, he can grieve it and go to his own specialist.  There is no indication at this point that Shaw is eligible.  In fact both the team and the player have indicated he's expected to play next year.  When the player isn't ready to walk away, good luck with this.

Karl Alzner's buyout cap hit may be a small savings in 2018-19, but its 4.4 million in 2020-21.  4.4 million in dead money that year, plus 2.4 million in 2021-22, plus 5 other years of 1.3 million... I can't see them buying him out.  Its not realistic. Nor does it make sense to take 7 years of massive hits to save 1 year of money.  You wont be able to keep the team together. 

 

 

I would call up the hawks see if they want Shaw back... After all they took back sharp and saad.  Try and get some picks for next year's draft.

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3 minutes ago, Metallica said:

I would call up the hawks see if they want Shaw back... After all they took back sharp and saad.  Try and get some picks for next year's draft.

 

Shaw is pretty broken and Chicago doesn't have a lot of cap space. If they took him back, they'd want Montreal to eat some cap hit. They are not in position of a salary dump. Taking Saad back was to placate Toews and it blew up in their faces. Sharp came back very cheap. They wouldn't be able to afford Shaw unless we took half of his cap back and still took someone in the deal. Maybe something like that could be done if we took back Duclair.

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Honestly I don't see Shaw or Alzner going anywhere. Bergevin ego wont allow it. This is a retool fix not a rebuild. The only trade I see will be the Pacioretty deal, I don't think him and CJ see eye to eye with his style of play and CJ system he wants to coach. You can see it and read between the lines in Pacioretty press conference.

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19 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Shaw is pretty broken and Chicago doesn't have a lot of cap space. If they took him back, they'd want Montreal to eat some cap hit. They are not in position of a salary dump. Taking Saad back was to placate Toews and it blew up in their faces. Sharp came back very cheap. They wouldn't be able to afford Shaw unless we took half of his cap back and still took someone in the deal. Maybe something like that could be done if we took back Duclair.

 

Saad was also cheaper than Panarin who is set to be a free agent and get even more money next summer.   You are right it blew up in their faces, and part of it was Toews related, but part of it was also cap space. 

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