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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

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3 minutes ago, Habopotamus said:

The defense is a disaster. 

 

Even Price couldn't hide the mistakes last year. 

 

I have no idea what Bergevin's plan is.

 

Continue firing off excuses until Molson stops accepting them.

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16 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

And does the good outweigh the bad with Weber? Doesn’t seem like much of a compliment to say the good outweighs the bad. Weber got injured this year but he’s still a fine player to have on the team in my books.

 

One can say your post wasn’t about Weber at all but the initial comment was that Weber is worse than Subban. 

 

Think about how people would perceive a John Carlson for Dustin Byfuglien trade, or an Eric Karlsson for Brent Burns and this trade isn’t much different. In certain moments the trade will look better for one team than the other but it won’t be a trade that’s permanently bad for one team or the other. There’s the age factor in each of the trades but those impacts are felt years afterward.

 

My post had 0 to do with Weber, it was touching on the fact someone mentioned Subban was playing his firewagon brand of hockey during these playoffs, and I was simply stating his game has calmed down quite a bit in Nashville. He has improved his decisions and game management if you compare him today to his last season in Montreal, improvements that could not be taken away from him with some nit picking, in my opinion anyway.

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2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Continue firing off excuses until Molson stops accepting them.

 

What if its all smoke and mirrors, what if no matter what plan he comes up with, he is as good as gone once it is cheaper, or the absolute perfect candidate is up for grabs and he has to fork out the money,

 

What if behind closed doors the relationship between them is a complete fracture, Bergevin knows he is only there because of the cost to make a change, Molson is just disgusted at the fact he has to keep him on board or blow millions more. He is forced to babysit his investment that went belly up the year after he dove into it just to make sure it doesn't get any worse while plotting plan B. Bergevin's very presence in the room annoys him, every time Bergevin tries to meet him and discuss future plans and ideas maybe Molson is like...

 

giphy.gif

 

 

And Storms out of whatever room they were in, leaving Bergevin standing there holding his nuts. I mean it is possible right?

 

 

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11 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Carlson and buff aren’t in the same class and yes, Karlsson for Burns would be a horrible trade, for the same reason of Burns being considerably older and Karlsson clearly being the better player, just as Subban is better and younger than Weber.

This is where opinions will vary. Carlson is not in the same class as Subban and yet he was a first round pick and just led the league in scoring. Karlsson has been on the rumour mill and one can be damn sure they won’t receive a better return than Burns if he were ever traded. Byfuglien isn’t in the same class and yet he’s accomplished more in the NHL than the other’s listed, and did so as a contributing factor for the Hawks. He’s older now but seems to be an integral part of this jets team this year, with a defensive core that has arguably outperformed Nashville’s elite defensive core (so far). 

 

I’m sure there is a slight majority that would think Karlsson Burns is a win for whoever receives Karlsson but the point is that in these trades, an extremely respectable player is coming back both ways. 

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47 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

This is where opinions will vary. Carlson is not in the same class as Subban and yet he was a first round pick and just led the league in scoring. Karlsson has been on the rumour mill and one can be damn sure they won’t receive a better return than Burns if he were ever traded. Byfuglien isn’t in the same class and yet he’s accomplished more in the NHL than the other’s listed, and did so as a contributing factor for the Hawks. He’s older now but seems to be an integral part of this jets team this year, with a defensive core that has arguably outperformed Nashville’s elite defensive core (so far). 

 

I’m sure there is a slight majority that would think Karlsson Burns is a win for whoever receives Karlsson but the point is that in these trades, an extremely respectable player is coming back both ways. 

You do know that he was a forward with the hawks and not a dman right?

if Dorian traded Karlsson for burns straighr up he should be fired on the spot.  Leading the league in scoring does not mean you’re the best dman, or even close to it.  Karlsson is playing on an extremely offensively gifted caps team.  He will get his points.  Letang also was close to the league leader in points. Both are good, neither is among the top elite. Ron Hainsey was a first round draft pick, is he better than Subban, or Weber who were second round picks?

 

guy Lapointe scored over 20 goals 3 straight years for the habs and has more points a few times than in the 70’s, than Larry Robinson.  Did that make him a better dman or Norris candidate like Robinson??was he even as good as serge Savard?  No, he was an extremely gifted offensive dman, that also benefited on playing on a stacked habs team.  He was one of the big 3, but a clear #3.

 

a few years back with the caps, Green had even a better year  than Carlson.  Was he one of the top dman in the league - not even close.

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12 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You do know that he was a forward with the hawks and not a dman right?

if Dorian traded Karlsson for burns straighr up he should be fired on the spot.  Leading the league in scoring does not mean you’re the best dman, or even close to it.  Karlsson is playing on an extremely offensively gifted caps team.  He will get his points.  Letang also was close to the league leader in points. Both are good, neither is among the top elite. Ron Hainsey was a first round draft pick, is he better than Subban, or Weber who were second round picks?

 

guy Lapointe scored over 20 goals 3 straight years for the habs and has more points a few times than in the 70’s, than Larry Robinson.  Did that make him a better dman or Norris candidate like Robinson??was he even as good as serge Savard?  No, he was an extremely gifted offensive dman, that also benefited on playing on a stacked habs team.  He was one of the big 3, but a clear #3.

 

a few years back with the caps, Green had even a better year  than Carlson.  Was he one of the top dman in the league - not even close.

I do know Byfuglien was a forward and I also know Burns has been a forward. How is the fact that these two players can play forward as well as defense not a positive thing? That makes them worse? Less value in a trade because of that? 

 

You’re not taking everything into consideration and I think Burns for Karlsson would actually be a steal for Ottawa considering Karlsson’s contract is up at the end of this season and Burns still has multiple years. “The final years of

his contract will be an albatross” because he’ll be an old man but again, that’s something to worry about in 5 years.

 

You still haven’t made it clear who wins the trade between Winnipeg and Washington and Carlson is not comparable to Hainsey because in addition to being a 1st overall pick, he also led the entire league among defensemen in scoring. He’s not great defensively? Well, wasn’t the hypothetical trade for Byfuglien who was originally a forward? 

 

When Sergachev does well, it’s because Tampa Bay has an elite team to boost his points. When Subban has the most elite defensive core to play with and good players around him, it seems his success is in spite of those players and people assume he would make an iota of a difference on a Habs team that has no one. On Montréal, Subban would have had to carry the load to an enormous extent and that’s where both his positives and negatives get amplified.

 

You attribute his success to better coaching. I attribute it to being on a more balanced team than Subban had when he was here and so he doesn’t have to do as much on his own.

 

All in all the point is to say that it does not suck to watch the better defenseman on Nashville because we do have Weber. It only sucks to watch him when Weber is not active. When Subban gets hurt and Weber is healthy, the opposite happens because Weber is a quality player. This was the case early last year.

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This is starting to teeter awfully close to a debate i'm sure no one wants to rehash..

 

 

I see and hear different rumblings again about Florida and Montreal getting back to the drawing board on a Pacioretty deal, he seemingly would approve it in a heartbeat. Question is what do we go after as a return.

 

Obviously I'd love to grab Bjugstad but he is likely an untouchable. Perhaps something involving Matheson for our LD problems, or somehow slip away with Borgstrom, who may actually be even more untouchable than Bjugstad.

 

Thoughts?

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16 minutes ago, Link67 said:

This is starting to teeter awfully close to a debate i'm sure no one wants to rehash..

 

 

I see and hear different rumblings again about Florida and Montreal getting back to the drawing board on a Pacioretty deal, he seemingly would approve it in a heartbeat. Question is what do we go after as a return.

 

Obviously I'd love to grab Bjugstad but he is likely an untouchable. Perhaps something involving Matheson for our LD problems, or somehow slip away with Borgstrom, who may actually be even more untouchable than Bjugstad.

 

Thoughts?

 

1st Round Pick 2018 or 2019

Max Gildon and/or Alexei Heponiemi

Maxim Mamin and/or Adam Mascherin 

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No interest in Bjustad....

 

I would give up Max + for Trocheck

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Bjugstad turned it on the last half of the season. Playing on the wing though...

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

No interest in Bjustad....

 

I would give up Max + for Trocheck

 

Why would Florida?

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27 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Why would Florida?

 

I remember freidmann saying it was discussed at the deadline as a one for one that florida rejected.

 

Maybe with an addition on the habs side florida wants to chamge their team a bit after missing the playoffs.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I remember freidmann saying it was discussed at the deadline as a one for one that florida rejected.

 

Maybe with an addition on the habs side florida wants to chamge their team a bit after missing the playoffs.

 

 

 

"Let's trade the 24 year old 75 point centre with a long term deal for $4.75M for a one year 29 year old declining left winger."

 

What's Montreal adding? 

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Matheson,  2018 1st (#15) and Gildon

FLA must take Alzner :)

 

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13 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

"Let's trade the 24 year old 75 point centre with a long term deal for $4.75M for a one year 29 year old declining left winger."

 

What's Montreal adding? 

 

Both high seconds... and pacioretty resigns to play close to his florida home.

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3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Both high seconds... and pacioretty resigns to play close to his florida home.

 

You seriously think Pacioretty/2nd/2nd is worse Trochek?

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4 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

You seriously think Pacioretty/2nd/2nd is worse Trochek?

 

Probably not.

 

But the fact its already been discussed as a one for one... with florida ultimately saying no... maybe they are interested.

 

Florida is an organization i cant get a read on.  Theyve been weird recently with the owner clearly meddling and making bad moves. Hard to get a read on them as a rational actor. They have done weird things... its like carolina saw them before saying, hold my beer 

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2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Probably not.

 

But the fact its already been discussed as a one for one... with florida ultimately saying no... maybe they are interested.

 

Florida is an organization i cant get a read on.  Theyve been weird recently with the owner clearly meddling and making bad moves. Hard to get a read on them as a rational actor. They have done weird things... its like carolina saw them before saying, hold my beer 

 

I agree it's a weird organization. I just feel that their decisions last season would make them very trigger shy after losing Marchesseault and Smith for basically nothing. Trading Trocheck for a veteran feels like something people are screaming not to do under any circumstances. I think Boughner has a little more input now after a fairly decent season where they almost made it. 

 

At worst I could see them making Borgstrom available for Pacioretty, but nothing like Trocheck. I could see them moving for Bjugstad but I don't know if I want him.

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I'd take a big right handed center for Pacioretty, I always liked Bjugstad. 

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A big right handed centre, who couldnt score at centre, but then started scoring after he was moved to wing?

 

Yeah I'd rather not go down that road... I've seen a couple of other versions of the same movie.

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Being behind Barkov and Trochek on the depth chart at center had him in a third line role. He's got a great shot and can get to the net. I also don't think we're in a position to be picky on centers 

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If we can get a little bidding war going between Florida and maybe St. Louis we might be able to pry a player like trocheck from the panthers

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7 minutes ago, Davehab said:

If we can get a little bidding war going between Florida and maybe St. Louis we might be able to pry a player like trocheck from the panthers

 

Calgary was close to Pacioretty and Hoffman but eventually didn't like the price on either. They would be the team to push on but too much and they go instead after another winger.

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We also have to consider that there are some high end wingers available that are UFA and will cost a team nothing to acquire. It is going to be nearly impossible to be able to get a center back in a trade of equal value without throwing in other significant pieces 

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19 minutes ago, illWill said:

We also have to consider that there are some high end wingers available that are UFA and will cost a team nothing to acquire. It is going to be nearly impossible to be able to get a center back in a trade of equal value without throwing in other significant pieces 

 

I don't think we were ever getting a top potential centre back for Pacioretty after 2016. 

 

Right now the best shot for the club are some prospects that might not be 1A but have that potential. Maybe a PO Joseph from Arizona, Bennett or Jankowski from Calgary, or Borgstrom from Florida.

 

I would be happy with a 1st, Gildon, and Mascherin from Florida or a 1st, Joseph, and Dauphin from Arizona or a 1st, or a 1st, Ruzicka, and Phillips.

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