JMMR Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I just read Eklund on HockeyBuzz and he said something that made me laugh. He said that his source in Montreal, in relation to Jeff Cater said, "..we are all in..". How in the world, with Pierre Gauthier as GM, would anyone know we all in on Jeff Carter??? I wonder if Gauthier even tells his own staff who he's speaking to and what he's working on. I'm sure he asks thier opinion on certain players but the thought of Gauthier letting out any info to anyone regarding who he's trading for is hillarious. What is Eklund thinking if he for a minute thinks we believe he has a source telling him what Gauthier is planning. What a joke!! All Eklund wants is web site hits so he wins no matter what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 "Are the Canadiens trying to acquire Jeff Carter?" "We're already in talks with Columbus for Jeff Carter." Reporter's throughts: "We're already in talks with Columbus for Jeff Carter." "We're all in for Jeff Carter." Would that sound about right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 They got him for the PP. Their PP still sucked. The PP was a non-factor to their win. they won in spite of Kaberle. Gary Leeman one of the most useless habs ever (also took away away a cup ring from Skrudland) contributed more to the 93 cup run, by at least getting one or two important goals on that cup run. Kaberle was a non-factor. Even the leafs, who were the 2nd worst team in the league a couple of years ago, were desperate to dump him. The bruins wanted nothing to do with him, after chasing after him for two years and giving up a king's ransom for him. Rutherford, the Carolina GM, said he should have known better and wished he didn't sign him. Their was only one GM dumb enough to trade for him, who happens to be the same guy who was head of the habs pro scouting, when Gainey signed Gomez. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20102011&gameType=3&team=&position=D&country=&status=&viewName=summary#?navid=nav-sts-indiv He was tied for third in the league in points among defensemen in the playoffs last year. Not exactly horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 http://www.nhl.com/i...d=nav-sts-indiv He was tied for third in the league in points among defensemen in the playoffs last year. Not exactly horrible. More interesting he was a +8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yeah, the "Kaberle sucked for the Bruins" myth needs to go away. The truth was that the Bruins entire PP was pretty bad in the post-season and that was a place where Kaberle was brought in to give an extra bump. He didn't "perform as expected" but neither did other Bruins d-men. They won the Cup without dominating teams on the PP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 http://www.nhl.com/i...d=nav-sts-indiv He was tied for third in the league in points among defensemen in the playoffs last year. Not exactly horrible. He also led the Bs in PP points. Not just the D, the entire team. He had as many PP pts as Chara, Lucic, Bergeron, Seguin, Peverley, Marchand, and Kelly combined. Maybe he wasnt the cause of the PP struggles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 He also led the Bs in PP points. Not just the D, the entire team. He had as many PP pts as Chara, Lucic, Bergeron, Seguin, Peverley, Marchand, and Kelly combined. Maybe he wasnt the cause of the PP struggles Look, Habs29 hates Kaberle for some valid reasons (soft, questionable defensively) and some dubious ones (he was a Leaf who wanted to stay in TO!!! He must be a born loser!!!!!). He chooses to completely discount the 40-50 points and puck-moving that Kaberle brings. Those points don't matter. Kaberle is clearly not a leader or difference-maker; he lists as the team does. And he is one-dimensional. It would be better to pay him 3.5 rather than 4.2. Ultimately, though, he is not paid like a difference-maker or a great all-around defenceman, so the intensity of the hate-on for him is somewhat inexplicable in pure hockey terms. I think the real issue is what he symbolizes. He is seen as yet another oversized veteran contract on a team that has too many of them. Therefore he becomes a lightning-rod, a symbol for all this is wrong with the Gainey-Gauthier team after 2009. It's kinda like how Brisebois became the scapegoat for everything wrong with the Houle era. That might explain the antagonism among some fans. We do have a lot of dough invested in veterans who are overpaid relative to their contributions: Markov, Gionta, and Kaberle. But the real problem on this front, surely, is Gomez. If we get rid of that contract, suddenly we don't look like a team carrying a ridiculous amount of useless salary, and suddenly the Kaberle deal becomes entirely manageable. I also think the impression of a team full of bloated contracts is exaggerated. The litany of complaints has included Hammer, Laraque, Spacek and the Cole signing. Spacek, Vegan-Man, and Hammer are gone and Cole is if anything underpaid, but some fans are still acting as though all those contracts are bogging us down. Again, the Gomez disaster distorts everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Look, Habs29 hates Kaberle for some valid reasons (soft, questionable defensively) and some dubious ones (he was a Leaf who wanted to stay in TO!!! He must be a born loser!!!!!). He chooses to completely discount the 40-50 points and puck-moving that Kaberle brings. Those points don't matter. Kaberle is clearly not a leader or difference-maker; he lists as the team does. And he is one-dimensional. It would be better to pay him 3.5 rather than 4.2. Ultimately, though, he is not paid like a difference-maker or a great all-around defenceman, so the intensity of the hate-on for him is somewhat inexplicable in pure hockey terms. I think the real issue is what he symbolizes. He is seen as yet another oversized veteran contract on a team that has too many of them. Therefore he becomes a lightning-rod, a symbol for all this is wrong with the Gainey-Gauthier team after 2009. It's kinda like how Brisebois became the scapegoat for everything wrong with the Houle era. That might explain the antagonism among some fans. We do have a lot of dough invested in veterans who are overpaid relative to their contributions: Markov, Gionta, and Kaberle. But the real problem on this front, surely, is Gomez. If we get rid of that contract, suddenly we don't look like a team carrying a ridiculous amount of useless salary, and suddenly the Kaberle deal becomes entirely manageable. I also think the impression of a team full of bloated contracts is exaggerated. The litany of complaints has included Hammer, Laraque, Spacek and the Cole signing. Spacek, Vegan-Man, and Hammer are gone and Cole is if anything underpaid, but some fans are still acting as though all those contracts are bogging us down. Again, the Gomez disaster distorts everything else. well put sir, i like Kaberle and the trade, cause Spacek brought nothing at either end of rink. All media and most Hab fans seemingly seem to think Kaberle is a bad deal, but who cares, if he puts up points for next 2 years and continues to move the puck as he does and be + player, the $4.25 is very fair. Gomez is the only one that needs to be dealt with ASAP, waive him /tell Molson to cough up the dough and buy him out, do whatever needs to be done so he is not on roster next fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ya, but he's -5, and was brought in to help the power play and didn't. The value in Specek was his expiring contract. If we kept Spacek, our power play would be the same, and we'd have that money to spend this summer. We could have possibly flipped Spacek for a draft pick as well. The problem with Kaberle goes even deeper than what Mr Cucumber points out. All that, and we're not even looking into how bad he plays on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ya, but he's -5, and was brought in to help the power play and didn't. The value in Specek was his expiring contract. If we kept Spacek, our power play would be the same, and we'd have that money to spend this summer. We could have possibly flipped Spacek for a draft pick as well. The problem with Kaberle goes even deeper than what Mr Cucumber points out. All that, and we're not even looking into how bad he plays on the ice. As Cucumber pointed out, you and most seem to be exaggerating the negatives at present, which is fine and maybe correct; but i think all 3 deals done by Gauthier lately are all for the better and you wont sway my stance on that, time will tell if Bourque and Kaberle are bums, but both are doing fine right now (in my opinion) on an offensively challanged and non-competitive team. These final 20 games are just for practice anyways, same as September MLB games for non-playoffs teams. Trade all spare parts and play the crap out of all the prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ya, but he's -5, and was brought in to help the power play and didn't. The value in Specek was his expiring contract. If we kept Spacek, our power play would be the same, and we'd have that money to spend this summer. We could have possibly flipped Spacek for a draft pick as well. The problem with Kaberle goes even deeper than what Mr Cucumber points out. All that, and we're not even looking into how bad he plays on the ice. Umm the power play is better now than what is was before him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Umm the power play is better now than what is was before him... Why did you type umm? But more important, our power play is still horrible, and near the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Why did you type umm? But more important, our power play is still horrible, and near the bottom. There are more reasons for that than just one guy. There has been zero movement by the players without the puck until very recently (not surprisingly the pp has improved recently). Subban needs to learn to get his shot through, and that a low accurate shot is better than a high hard one that misses by 10 feet. Personnel and strategy have been issues all year, why is gomez on the PP at all? Why is one of cole or Pacioretty always playing up on the half boards instead of down low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Personnel and strategy have been issues all year, why is gomez on the PP at all? Why is one of cole or Pacioretty always playing up on the half boards instead of down low? Are you seriously asking ? The reason is pretty simple : He's the only player on our roster not named Cole or Subban that can get in the offensive zone with puck possession. Everyone else dumps it. From time to time, Desharnais is able too, but not on a constant basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Are you seriously asking ? The reason is pretty simple : He's the only player on our roster not named Cole or Subban that can get in the offensive zone with puck possession. Everyone else dumps it. From time to time, Desharnais is able too, but not on a constant basis. There is no production there though. He might gain the zone but then the puck dies on his stick, so whats the point? We have a ton of big wingers now might as well dump and chase and let Lars Eller get some PP experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ya, but he's -5, and was brought in to help the power play and didn't. The value in Specek was his expiring contract. If we kept Spacek, our power play would be the same, and we'd have that money to spend this summer. We could have possibly flipped Spacek for a draft pick as well. The problem with Kaberle goes even deeper than what Mr Cucumber points out. All that, and we're not even looking into how bad he plays on the ice. Things need to be placed in to context though. No matter what happens you will have people on both sides of the debate. I'm sure if we had kept Spacek, there would be people complaining right now about how he had yet to be moved. In my opinion, keeping Spacek would have been the worst option out of any. Either you had to trade him for another veteran dman (at that point in time we needed powerplay help) or the next best option was to trade him for a 2nd round pick+ closer to the deadline. At the time that Gauthier made the move for Kaberle, he clearly felt that we were still a competitive fringe team who needed some help on the powerplay to cross that bridge into playoff team status. Is that not what a fan of any team should hope for? That their general manager tries to improve their team in the NOW without throwing away our future? If you know of any other players who fit into the powerplay specialist mould who we could have gotten for Spacek, feel free to let me know. I know some people on here keep talking about tanking (that's another discussion altogether) so maybe they would not agree that improving the team in the NOW is a positive thing this season, but look how well that has served Edmonton. Sure they might win the cup in a few years, but they will have been bottom feeders for YEARS before it happens. That is not a team I would want to be supporting right now. Tanking does not necessarily mean immediate success. Judging by some of your posts though I know that you specifically are someone who falls into the former category mentioned earlier. You'd want to ice a competitive team even for the rest of this season without hurting our future. Where our opinions seem to differ though is that It seems as though you think that acquiring Kaberle has indeed, on its own, impeded the future progress of this team. If so, we can agree to disagree. As I've stated before, his contract is only a slight overpayment in the 500-750k range and really nothing worth crying about. What this team DOES need are other veteran defenseman who can shelter Kaberle's liabilities as well as help HIM be even more productive on the powerplay. Kaberle has definitely helped the powerplay, he just has no one to help him a la McCabe. (I also think Jacques Martin's umbrella system was more effective for his production) I find myself agreeing with Chicoutimi Cucumber all too much because finding said defenseman or men starts with finding a way to get rid of the Gomez contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 We've gone over Kaberle and that trade since the day it happened. I won't repeat the leagues perception of it. Sadly though, perception fits reality in his case. For those who defend the trade, you're in luck. As this week we learned that not one single team would call if he was made available. So we'll get to enjoy his 40 or so assists, and minus play, next season. Also, I posted a while back that without Gomez, Kaberle's contract becomes easier to accept. I too, am in agreement with Mr. Cucumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 As Cucumber pointed out, you and most seem to be exaggerating the negatives at present, which is fine and maybe correct; but i think all 3 deals done by Gauthier lately are all for the better and you wont sway my stance on that, time will tell if Bourque and Kaberle are bums, but both are doing fine right now (in my opinion) on an offensively challanged and non-competitive team. These final 20 games are just for practice anyways, same as September MLB games for non-playoffs teams. Trade all spare parts and play the crap out of all the prospects. Have to say I expected more from Bourque... At least he couldve scored a few more goals for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Have to say I expected more from Bourque... At least he couldve scored a few more goals for us. That's what you get for replacing skilled players with inconsistent players instead of fixing what was holding back the skilled players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 That's what you get for replacing skilled players with inconsistent players instead of fixing what was holding back the skilled players. Fixing Cammy would of meant rehauling the entire roster. Cammy's problem was he bough in to the team's attitude of not caring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 That's what you get for replacing skilled players with inconsistent players instead of fixing what was holding back the skilled players. Poor Cammalleri, so hard done by in Montreal, i am sure he must just rippin it up in Calgary is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Poor Cammalleri, so hard done by in Montreal, i am sure he must just rippin it up in Calgary is he? Cammalleri needs the power play. Montreal has the worst power play in the league. Ain't hard to figure out. Doesn't matter anyway. Cammalleri is best used in the post-season and Montreal isn't making it. Nor will they with Bourque expected by anyone to score on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 We traded streaky guy who is a liability when on a cold streak and a 1st line elite when playing well for streaky guy who is a liability when on a cold streak and a 2nd liner when playing well and 2.7 in cap space. The value you put on cap space clearly affects your perception of the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habscout Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'll throw my $0.02 in on trade thoughts. Chicago needs a defenceman. TSN reports that Chicago's defenceman Niklas Hjamalmarsson has concussion like symptoms. Since Campoli played for them last season, they may be desperate enough to take him back for their playoff run. Right now they're down to 6 defenceman, including rookie Dylan Olsen who has only 10 pro games to his credit. Now, the Blackhawks have said they wouldn't trade a prospect for a rental player even though they are pretty deep with them; I'd love to see forwards like Jimmy Hayes or Andrew Shaw. But maybe they'd be willing to give up a 3rd round pick instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 "#Wild has traded Marek Zidlicky to #Devils for Kurtis Foster, Nick Palmieri, Stephane Veilleux, 2nd round pick (2012) + cond. pick (2013)." Zidlicky has 14 pts is signed for next season at 4million and plays similar d to Kaberle he's -7 this year. And you guys think Kabs cant be dealt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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