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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

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8 hours ago, Habber31 said:

Keep clicking the negative/ down vote icon on all the posts that have value, but you just don't like. That's way better than - Habs Retired, voicing his opinion 

 

Look, the truth is what has or doesn't have value is a matter of personal perspective, literally what the bartering system was built on. What you might see as valuable, might be viewed as complete junk to someone else, simple as that, always has been. As far as trying to make a stink about down votes and such, like there is some kind of non existent stigma on down voting, is silly, to put it lightly. The system to rate a post is there, its a fine thing to have in any environment where discussion is prevalent. Trying to call people out about how they rate a post while in the same breath claiming they are not respecting another person's opinion is a contradiction and a half, considering that rating a post is also a form of someone else's opinion about an opinion. If they very much agree or disagree with your post is entirely their right, expressing it is entirely their right, you may find it harsh, the same as they may have found the post harsh.

 

Ultimately there is no difference with someone POSTING their opinion and someone RATING their opinion, if you believe in one you should believe in both, because you are agreeing to allow people to express their thoughts one way or another.  Anyways, i'm getting side tracked, back on topic...

 

 

Really wondering if Bergevin is working on some other kind of big swing right now, because it seems like the easy back up plan at this point, to infuse the top 6 with some talent, would be to really pick Vegas' brain about Gusev. It just seems like they would let him go for adequate asset replenishment, the kind of assets we have in abundance and would be an affordable top 6 contract probably under 5 mill per. The fact we are not going after this obvious situation leads me to wonder if we are not currently working on pulling a bigger fish out of the pond until we either get him on the boat or the line gets cut.

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22 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

How about Weber and either Drouin (preferred) or Gallagher for Marner. Than try and sign Marner for $12m/6 years

 

it weakens are defence big things big time, but we basically have a 4-5 year window left with Price and 3 to 4 years of Weber as elite players.  No way we can have a serious contender within that time frame.

 

for Toronto they will probably need to move another contract.  But they solidify their D for next year with Reilly, Weber, Muzzin and Barrie.  And with Weber have improved their D for at least 4 years.  

 

For me the hardest thing to accept is strengthening the hated leafs.  But we need a bold move that is going to have three years for the kids to improve and build the D.

 

Price may also asked to be moved given the window is further out, than so be it.  We need a real plan to build a contender than this retool and rebuild our n the fly.

 

in the East next year, Columbus has gotten worse and won’t make the playoffs. However, their spot will be taken by Florida. NJD and Philly also improved and will probably finish ahead of us.  Next year I’ll s another lost year.  With each lost year, Price and Weber get older and their value will be dropping.

I don’t see how one of our best d and a heart and soul player like Gallagher for Marner benefits Montreal. Also I don’t share your pessimism about next season for 2 reasons:

1. Our backup goaltending should be better

2. It is July.

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2 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

Look, the truth is what has or doesn't have value is a matter of personal perspective, literally what the bartering system was built on. What you might see as valuable, might be viewed as complete junk to someone else, simple as that, always has been. As far as trying to make a stink about down votes and such, like there is some kind of non existent stigma on down voting, is silly, to put it lightly. The system to rate a post is there, its a fine thing to have in any environment where discussion is prevalent. Trying to call people out about how they rate a post while in the same breath claiming they are not respecting another person's opinion is a contradiction and a half, considering that rating a post is also a form of someone else's opinion about an opinion. If they very much agree or disagree with your post is entirely their right, expressing it is entirely their right, you may find it harsh, the same as they may have found the post harsh.

 

Ultimately there is no difference with someone POSTING their opinion and someone RATING their opinion, if you believe in one you should believe in both, because you are agreeing to allow people to express their thoughts one way or another.  Anyways, i'm getting side tracked, back on topic...

 

 

Really wondering if Bergevin is working on some other kind of big swing right now, because it seems like the easy back up plan at this point, to infuse the top 6 with some talent, would be to really pick Vegas' brain about Gusev. It just seems like they would let him go for adequate asset replenishment, the kind of assets we have in abundance and would be an affordable top 6 contract probably under 5 mill per. The fact we are not going after this obvious situation leads me to wonder if we are not currently working on pulling a bigger fish out of the pond until we either get him on the boat or the line gets cut.

I would think Gusev at the reported price of a second round pick would be a no-brainer. I also think Ferland would be a good addition. I’m not saying both but adding one of these guys would be excellent 

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3 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Why wouldn't someone (if not the Habs, then someone else) pick him up using an offer sheet? Or trade inexpensively -- for Hudon?

 

 

Why trade for someone that's probably going to be on waivers in late September/early October?  Unless you really think a bunch of teams are going to want him, you might as well wait it out.  And from Montreal's perspective, why would they trade for him when he probably doesn't crack their top-8 right now?  I guess he could sneak ahead of Juulsen but then the Habs would have to carry 8 d-men, something they may not want to do.

 

35 minutes ago, PMAC said:

I would think Gusev at the reported price of a second round pick would be a no-brainer. I also think Ferland would be a good addition. I’m not saying both but adding one of these guys would be excellent 

 

It's not just a second rounder - it's believed to be that plus another asset now.

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37 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Why trade for someone that's probably going to be on waivers in late September/early October?  Unless you really think a bunch of teams are going to want him, you might as well wait it out.  And from Montreal's perspective, why would they trade for him when he probably doesn't crack their top-8 right now?  I guess he could sneak ahead of Juulsen but then the Habs would have to carry 8 d-men, something they may not want to do.

 

Right, forgot about the waivers when I was thinking about this. Honka still has a lot of potential but I think he would get a boost from spending some time in the AHL, with lots of ice time, rather than being a fourth-pair D in the NHL, with minimal ice time. But if you can’t get him into Laval without losing him, that whole idea falls apart.

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34 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Right, forgot about the waivers when I was thinking about this. Honka still has a lot of potential but I think he would get a boost from spending some time in the AHL, with lots of ice time, rather than being a fourth-pair D in the NHL, with minimal ice time. But if you can’t get him into Laval without losing him, that whole idea falls apart.

 

If he was to actually make it through waivers, then his trade value would go up (like Kulak and Olofsson last season).  That said, with Fleury and Brook needing lots of playing time (and Juulsen could be there too), there isn't really room for Honka there either.

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58 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

If he was to actually make it through waivers, then his trade value would go up (like Kulak and Olofsson last season).  That said, with Fleury and Brook needing lots of playing time (and Juulsen could be there too), there isn't really room for Honka there either.

 

We do have a lot of D prospects in the pipeline. Based on eliteprospects.com, excluding Laval, eight of our 18 skater prospects are defencemen. And eight more D in Laval ...

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8 hours ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

Back to trade proposals..

 

Puljujarvi for Byron and a pick...

 

Yay? Nay?

 

No from montreal

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5 hours ago, PMAC said:

I don’t see how one of our best d and a heart and soul player like Gallagher for Marner benefits Montreal. Also I don’t share your pessimism about next season for 2 reasons:

1. Our backup goaltending should be better

2. It is July.

We don’t have a elite game breaker yet.  We need one.  Every serious contender had at least one truly elite player. I’d rather give up Drouin, but I can’t see the leafs being interested. Marner is also younger and in two years time we hopefully build the D.

 

frankly, at the start of the ufa period Id have been willing to move one of Price or Weber for a Marner, Rantanan, or Aho.  Or even check on Draisaitl.  God knows the oilers need leadership.  Preference is Weber, because he probably has fewer elite years left. But one of them alone is not going to be enough.  I can’t see the Avs having any interest in moving Rantanen.

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10 hours ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

Back to trade proposals..

 

Puljujarvi for Byron and a pick...

 

Yay? Nay?

Nay! A thousand times nay! Why would we want to give up an effective roster player and a second round pick for a struggling prospect who has demanded a trade? I wouldn’t mind Bergevin taking a flyer on Puljujarvi for Hudon and a second or third, but not if we are giving up anything substantial 

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7 hours ago, PMAC said:

Nay! A thousand times nay! Why would we want to give up an effective roster player and a second round pick for a struggling prospect who has demanded a trade? I wouldn’t mind Bergevin taking a flyer on Puljujarvi for Hudon and a second or third, but not if we are giving up anything substantial 

 

Count me in the nay!

 

I would do Hudon (who has no place here) for Puljujarvi.

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Count me in the nay!

 

I would do Hudon (who has no place here) for Puljujarvi.

 

Yes. But the challenge (as dlbalr pointed out to me in the Honka case) is that really Puljujarvi, too, should get some serious playing time in the AHL first, to get his confidence back and prepare for the NHL. I really think the Oilers rushed his development.

 

But in order to do that, he would need to be able to clear waivers, which probably would not happen.

 

I'm wondering, though, would a team be able to sign Puljujarvi and then send him to Finland for a year of maturing and conditioning in Liiga, and then bring him back for 2020-21? Based on CBA (section 13.23) it looks like waivers would only be necessary in order to bring him back during the same season. But I may have misinterpreted the CBA ...

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9 hours ago, PMAC said:

Nay! A thousand times nay! Why would we want to give up an effective roster player and a second round pick for a struggling prospect who has demanded a trade? I wouldn’t mind Bergevin taking a flyer on Puljujarvi for Hudon and a second or third, but not if we are giving up anything substantial 

You'll be lucky if you get a 3rd for Hundon. You actually think that edmonton would give up a 4th overall pick in Puljujarvi for him? He has the potential to be a top 6 player, someone who could be on your top line or 2nd line. And Hundon is a 3rd or 4th line center at best in the NHL. Hundon and a 2nd or 3rd would not get you Puljujarvi considering they don't need a center. I mean if Bergevin wanted to take a chance and send a offer sheet to anyone it should of been Puljujarvi and not Aho. Not sure what a offer sheet would look like in terms of numbers for Puljujarvi. I know Hundon wants out but you need to be realistic on who Hundon is in the NHL.

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Nylander just went for a decent defensive prospect and he was picked 8th and has been worse than Puljujarvi. 

 

Hudon is not getting us JP.

Maybe Juulsen and a lower pick?

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1 hour ago, Metallica said:

You'll be lucky if you get a 3rd for Hundon. You actually think that edmonton would give up a 4th overall pick in Puljujarvi for him? He has the potential to be a top 6 player, someone who could be on your top line or 2nd line. And Hundon is a 3rd or 4th line center at best in the NHL. Hundon and a 2nd or 3rd would not get you Puljujarvi considering they don't need a center. I mean if Bergevin wanted to take a chance and send a offer sheet to anyone it should of been Puljujarvi and not Aho. Not sure what a offer sheet would look like in terms of numbers for Puljujarvi. I know Hundon wants out but you need to be realistic on who Hundon is in the NHL.

 

Hudon also isn't a center, so there is that and his name only has one N in it.  So when you don't know his name, or his position, we do need to be "realistic on who Hudon is in the NHL."

 

Hudon and Puljujarvi are basically at the same point in the NHL.  Neither is worth much.  Puljujarvi might be worth slightly more than Hudon (who I don't think gets you a third rounder) but its not much.  The fourth overall pick means nothing today, just like when they traded Yakupov for a 3rd round pick, his first overall status meant nothing. 

The Oilers were reportedly willing to move him for a 2nd round pick, or third line player at the draft. 

Hudon + 3rd rounder is probably fair value IMO. 

 

At least Hudon has one good NHL season under his belt, Puljujarvi despite the high draft status, doesn't even have that. 

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27 minutes ago, Commandant said:

At least Hudon has one good NHL season under his belt, Puljujarvi despite the high draft status, doesn't even have that. 

 

Right. He has shown flashes of brilliance but only for a month or so at a time. And when he faltered he quickly got dropped down the lineup.

 

I really think the issue with Puljujarvi is confidence more than anything. He came into the NHL too young, with minimal English skills. He's definitely not mature for his age, likely not really clicking with anyone in the Oilers' dressing room, and any remaining confidence will have crumbled as he has floated between the fourth line and the press box. A new team and an AHL assignment would be the best for him, I think, but by now he has enough NHL experience that he would need to clear waivers. And I expect that someone would pick him up from there. Going to Europe -- and not Finland -- for a year or two would probably be the best option for him to eventually succeed in the NHL.

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If Hundon is so good how come he can't crack our line up as a full timer and can't play center for a organization that at a time needed one?

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37 minutes ago, Metallica said:

If Hundon is so good how come he can't crack our line up as a full timer and can't play center for a organization that at a time needed one?

 

1) He's not a centre as I already said.  He wasn't a centre in junior. They tried him at centre for 1 season in the AHL, it didn't work.  Since his first year in the AHL he has played wing all but a few games, and maybe 1 or 2 games in the NHL... but he's not a centre.  He's a left wing, with some ability to play RW.  Only in an emergency would he ever be used at Centre.  So there goes that argument. 

2) No one is saying he is "so good"... but Puljujarvi isn't exactly showing that he is "so good" either. 

 

3) His name still only has one N.  Hudon

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I don't see anyone really pumping Hudon's tires here.

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40 minutes ago, huzer said:

I don't see anyone really pumping Hudon's tires here.

I’ve been a huge fan of Hudon for years, if you go back maybe 3-4 pages you’ll see me pump his tires lol. I also suggested using him to acquire JP in the same post

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5 hours ago, Metallica said:

You'll be lucky if you get a 3rd for Hundon. You actually think that edmonton would give up a 4th overall pick in Puljujarvi for him? He has the potential to be a top 6 player, someone who could be on your top line or 2nd line. And Hundon is a 3rd or 4th line center at best in the NHL. Hundon and a 2nd or 3rd would not get you Puljujarvi considering they don't need a center. I mean if Bergevin wanted to take a chance and send a offer sheet to anyone it should of been Puljujarvi and not Aho. Not sure what a offer sheet would look like in terms of numbers for Puljujarvi. I know Hundon wants out but you need to be realistic on who Hundon is in the NHL.

No, I don’t think that Hudon has much value. What I said was that I would be happy to see Bergevin take a flyer on if Puljujarvi if we weren’t giving up anything substantial. From what I hear about his hockey sense I fear he is going to be a bust. You are probably right we will be lucky to get a 3rd for Hudon. Even a 4th would be fine. My post was a reaction against giving up a useful roster player in Byron for Puljujarvi—not saying that I think Hudon has much value, because I don’t think that he does. That was my point.

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5 hours ago, tomh009 said:

I'm wondering, though, would a team be able to sign Puljujarvi and then send him to Finland for a year of maturing and conditioning in Liiga, and then bring him back for 2020-21? Based on CBA (section 13.23) it looks like waivers would only be necessary in order to bring him back during the same season. But I may have misinterpreted the CBA ...

 

 

Waivers would be required as it's a non-NHL assignment.  Teams can do that with someone that's waiver exempt (and on an ELC) but Puljujarvi would need to clear waivers to be loaned to Finland.  The better way to do that would be to simply have him sign in Finland and retain RFA status for a year (which is what Edmonton's willing to do).

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3 hours ago, huzer said:

I don't see anyone really pumping Hudon's tires here.

Exactly. I included him as a potential part of a Puljujarvi deal to illustrate how little MTL should give up to acquire him. I don’t think that Puljujarvi is worth more to Montreal right now.

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39 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

Waivers would be required as it's a non-NHL assignment.  Teams can do that with someone that's waiver exempt (and on an ELC) but Puljujarvi would need to clear waivers to be loaned to Finland.  The better way to do that would be to simply have him sign in Finland and retain RFA status for a year (which is what Edmonton's willing to do).

 

Thanks for clarifying that.

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2 hours ago, PMAC said:

Exactly. I included him as a potential part of a Puljujarvi deal to illustrate how little MTL should give up to acquire him. I don’t think that Puljujarvi is worth more to Montreal right now.

Other teams are saying the same thing about Hundon. He's not worth more then a 5th or 6th round pick to other teams . In the eyes of edmonton Puljujarvi is a potential top 6 player and their just not going to give him away like some of you think.

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