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With Sabastian Oho offer that Bergevin made, assume mgmt sees an upgrade upfront as important.

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On 11/23/2019 at 11:43 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Nothing wrong with upgrading, but picks and prospects have to be handled strategically. Trading some for upgrades to our current area of strength (FW depth) leaves fewer available for addressing our one area of comical, ongoing weakness (LD). And we are certainly not at the point where we should be going all-in and selling the farm for immediate upgrades in general.So I stand by my assessment.

If we're not going all in now what's the point in keeping guys like  Price, Weber, Petry and Gallagher? Trade them all and play all the young guys. At least fans won't have false hope. Keeping these guys gives you a chance to win, so why not surround them with talent to win.

 

I like our forward group, we needed to upgrade our D badly just look at last nights game vrs NYR. We finally have the type of prospects that other teams want in trades that are rebuilding , so why not finally take advantage of it?

 

To make trades for top elite players That team's are rebuilding and look for

Draft picks 

NHL ready prospects 

Contracts that are ending

 

We have all that right now plus that cap space.  Make the moves now.

 

For example 

Tatar + Poehling + 1st round pick 

 

Would get you a top LD that we need. Would it weaken us no it would only make us stronger.

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Some of those stockpiled draft picks and a young guy like Poehling for a solid LD ASAP is what I want to see MB do.  Enough excuses, and for God's sake he better not be all-in on the concept of Romanov coming over and being a 1st pair saviour right off the hop. 

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2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

If we're not going all in now what's the point in keeping guys like  Price, Weber, Petry and Gallagher? Trade them all and play all the young guys. At least fans won't have false hope. Keeping these guys gives you a chance to win, so why not surround them with talent to win.

 

I like our forward group, we needed to upgrade our D badly just look at last nights game vrs NYR. We finally have the type of prospects that other teams want in trades that are rebuilding , so why not finally take advantage of it?

 

To make trades for top elite players That team's are rebuilding and look for

Draft picks 

NHL ready prospects 

Contracts that are ending

 

We have all that right now plus that cap space.  Make the moves now.

 

For example 

Tatar + Poehling + 1st round pick 

 

Would get you a top LD that we need. Would it weaken us no it would only make us stronger.

I do not want top give a 1st round pick

 

Tatar + Juulsen + 2nd round pick.

 

Or

Tatar + Juulsen + Lehkonen + 2nd round pick.

 

Or

Tatar + Juulsen + 2x(2nd round pick).

 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I do not want top give a 1st round pick

 

Tatar + Juulsen + 2nd round pick.

 

Or

Tatar + Juulsen + Lehkonen + 2nd round pick.

 

Or

Tatar + Juulsen + 2x(2nd round pick).

 

Thats not getting you a elite D sorry. Juulsen is a risk to team's and so is Lehkonen, their to inconsistent.  If you want a top pairing playmaking LD which we need your going to have to pony up for it.  Poehling and a 2nd, or a 1st if Poehling  isn't part of the deal would do it.

 

For example 

Tatar + Poehling + 2nd 

For

Gostisbehere 

 

Tatar and Gostisbehere contract are all most equal in money but Philadelphia would save with less years on Tatar contract. Maybe you can take the 1st round pick out of it and 

 

Or another example could be

Poehling + 2nd round pick 

For

Lindholm 

 

Or Poehling +2nd 

For

Brodin 

 

 

Those are probably what it would take to get a deal done.

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50 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Thats not getting you a elite D sorry. Juulsen is a risk to team's and so is Lehkonen, their to inconsistent.  If you want a top pairing playmaking LD which we need your going to have to pony up for it.  Poehling and a 2nd, or a 1st if Poehling  isn't part of the deal would do it.

 

For example 

Tatar + Poehling + 2nd 

For

Gostisbehere 

 

Tatar and Gostisbehere contract are all most equal in money but Philadelphia would save with less years on Tatar contract. Maybe you can take the 1st round pick out of it and 

 

Or another example could be

Poehling + 2nd round pick 

For

Lindholm 

 

Or Poehling +2nd 

For

Brodin 

 

 

Those are probably what it would take to get a deal done.


Specifics aside, you’re right - we’re not getting an impact D without giving up significant assets. Lehkonen and Juulsen are hardly that, and a 2nd isn’t that great either. Teams don’t generally trade core pieces for spare parts.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:


Specifics aside, you’re right - we’re not getting an impact D without giving up significant assets. Lehkonen and Juulsen are hardly that, and a 2nd isn’t that great either. Teams don’t generally trade core pieces for spare parts.

Exactly some people here make their trade offer's the same as those who play fantasy  teams... Offer you their bench players for your top guy, it just isn't going to happen.

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Actually in the cap world it is possible to make those kinds of deals if you are taking an unfortunate contract back.

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21 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

If we're not going all in now what's the point in keeping guys like  Price, Weber, Petry and Gallagher? Trade them all and play all the young guys. At least fans won't have false hope. Keeping these guys gives you a chance to win, so why not surround them with talent to win.

 

I like our forward group, we needed to upgrade our D badly just look at last nights game vrs NYR. We finally have the type of prospects that other teams want in trades that are rebuilding , so why not finally take advantage of it?

 

To make trades for top elite players That team's are rebuilding and look for

Draft picks 

NHL ready prospects 

Contracts that are ending

 

We have all that right now plus that cap space.  Make the moves now.

 

For example 

Tatar + Poehling + 1st round pick 

 

Would get you a top LD that we need. Would it weaken us no it would only make us stronger.

 

If you are giving up Tatar + Poehling  + a 1st round pick then you better get an elite NHL defenceman,  in my opinion Gostisbhere is not elite. That's a lot to give up.  Your leading goal scorer, plus a great prospect plus a first. 

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18 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Thats not getting you a elite D sorry. Juulsen is a risk to team's and so is Lehkonen, their to inconsistent.  If you want a top pairing playmaking LD which we need your going to have to pony up for it.  Poehling and a 2nd, or a 1st if Poehling  isn't part of the deal would do it.

I guess that is a valid point, point taken

Poehling has not established himself in the NHL yet, who knows what his ceiling will be, it seems he is more of a 3rd line centre (like Danault). Juulsenand Lehkonen have NHL experience and are capable to play at that level, and yes Juulsen has been hurt but on freak plays. 

But out of the three centres (Poehling, Suziki and Kotkaniemi) I woul dgive up Poehling over the other two. 

 

15 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Exactly some people here make their trade offer's the same as those who play fantasy  teams... Offer you their bench players for your top guy, it just isn't going to happen.

I am not sure if the comment is meant on my trade proposal, I will assume it is: point taken.

 

What I have been looking at is contract terms, prime years left and 2021-expansion protection list. I think the CH has a good contract structure now and may consider upgrades a certain top 6 positions if the player coming back is significantly better (Aho).

But for the LD hole, I believe they need to hedge against Weber and Petry being injured and also not giving up core assets. I think these players are trade chips: Tatar, Lehkonen, Armia, Juulsen, Ikonen, and one of the top RD prospects: Fleury, Juulsend or Brook.

 

Edited by alfredoh2009
Added lcarification

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9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

If you are giving up Tatar + Poehling  + a 1st round pick then you better get an elite NHL defenceman,  in my opinion Gostisbhere is not elite. That's a lot to give up.  Your leading goal scorer, plus a great prospect plus a first. 

 

Massive overpayment.

 

Gostisbhere has been scratched. He’s also not elite and if we are being honest Mete has been playing better than him. I might be willing to give up a 1st but that’s about it.

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2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

If you are giving up Tatar + Poehling  + a 1st round pick then you better get an elite NHL defenceman,  in my opinion Gostisbhere is not elite. That's a lot to give up.  Your leading goal scorer, plus a great prospect plus a first. 

Thats my point if you want an elite D you got to give up to get it. Your not getting a top LD for 4th line players. 

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I guess that is a valid point, point taken

Poehling has not established himself in the NHL yet, who knows what his ceiling will be, it seems he is more of a 3rd line centre (like Danault). Juulsenand Lehkonen have NHL experience and are capable to play at that level, and yes Juulsen has been hurt but on freak plays. 

But out of the three centres (Poehling, Suziki and Kotkaniemi) I woul dgive up Poehling over the other two. 

 

I am not sure if the comment is meant on my trade proposal, I will assume it is: point taken.

 

What I have been looking at is contract terms, prime years left and 2021-expansion protection list. I think the CH has a good contract structure now and may consider upgrades a certain top 6 positions if the player coming back is significantly better (Aho).

But for the LD hole, I believe they need to hedge against Weber and Petry being injured and also not giving up core assets. I think these players are trade chips: Tatar, Lehkonen, Armia, Juulsen, Ikonen, and one of the top RD prospects: Fleury, Juulsend or Brook.

 

No the comment wasn't on you just some of the trades I have seen people Come up with are laughable if you're trying to get a top player back. People just need to be more realistic.

 

And those trades I mentioned are just examples but coming back our way could also be picks along with a top D or a prospect along with a top D.

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6 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Thats my point if you want an elite D you got to give up to get it. Your not getting a top LD for 4th line players. 

 

No question that elite D do not come cheap. Did you have anyone in mind ?

 

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53 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

No question that elite D do not come cheap. Did you have anyone in mind ?

 

I would look at the bottom teams if they're out of the playoffs by the deadline they will be sellers.

Detroit 

Minnesota 

Kings

Ducks 

New jersey 

Columbus 

Flames 

 

I could see these team's making trades and being sellers.

 

 Really wish we could of got Larsson out of Arizona.

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2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

I would look at the bottom teams if they're out of the playoffs by the deadline they will be sellers.

Detroit 

Minnesota 

Kings

Ducks 

New jersey 

Columbus 

Flames 

 

I could see these team's making trades and being sellers.

 

 Really wish we could of got Larsson out of Arizona.

Out of those ANA and MIN are the ones I found align with the CH

 

In my limited knowledge I could not find a good match with the other teams

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It's not enough for a team to be out of the playoffs. You also need a team that's willing to let go (of the right) player, because that player doesn't really fit into their rebuild/retool/other plan.

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35 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Out of those ANA and MIN are the ones I found align with the CH

 

In my limited knowledge I could not find a good match with the other teams

Yeah me also. I would pin point it to those two teams if we make a deal for a D . They look like the type of team's that if they're out of the playoff race again this year they just might blow it up and rebuild.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Out of those ANA and MIN are the ones I found align with the CH

 

In my limited knowledge I could not find a good match with the other teams

 

How about these?

On 11/17/2019 at 2:45 PM, alfredoh2009 said:

To Montreal: Jonas Brodin

To Minnesota: Lehkonen, Juulsen and (Chicago's) 2nd round pick

 

On 11/17/2019 at 1:23 PM, alfredoh2009 said:

To Montreal: Jacob Larsson(LD), drafted  27th in 2015, same year as Juulsen.  (Larsson over Fowler because it is more likely to happen)

To Anaheim: Juulsen and a draft pick

Both need to be protected in the expansion draft

 

 

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My crazy thought of the day, we should do everything we possibly can to get Lafreniere next summer.

Is it worth trying to make a trade like the Lindros Quebec-Philly trade?

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6 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

My crazy thought of the day, we should do everything we possibly can to get Lafreniere next summer.

Is it worth trying to make a trade like the Lindros Quebec-Philly trade?

You would have to see who the lottery winning team is first. Then you would have to see what their team needs are. If we have what they need we might be able too trade. But I would think Kotkaniemi or Suzuki  would be the center piece of the trade talks if they're going young. If they want established  young NHL players i would think Domi Or Danault would be the center piece of the trade talks. 

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6 hours ago, Dalhabs said:

My crazy thought of the day, we should do everything we possibly can to get Lafreniere next summer.

Is it worth trying to make a trade like the Lindros Quebec-Philly trade?

 

I would still prefer to focus on getting a top defenceman. And getting someone who is proven at the NHL level.

 

Lafreniere looks great but there have been many top draft picks over the years who have not been able to adapt to the NHL game, so he is far from risk-free.

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42 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

I would still prefer to focus on getting a top defenceman. And getting someone who is proven at the NHL level.

 

Lafreniere looks great but there have been many top draft picks over the years who have not been able to adapt to the NHL game, so he is far from risk-free.

I totally agree, i think the missing link to this team is a top playmaking LD. Also need to improve on the LW.

 

By the way Chiarot and Fleury have been growing on me.

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5 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

I totally agree, i think the missing link to this team is a top playmaking LD. Also need to improve on the LW.

 

By the way Chiarot and Fleury have been growing on me.

 

Fleury is a fun guy - it's always entertaining to have defencemen who hit guys. Whether his advanced stats are strong is another question (I have no idea). But just from the 'eye test' he has been a welcome addition.

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The habs aren't 1 dman away from being contender, they are probably the 5th best team in there division. 

 

The habs need to unload and actually rebuild, big problem is the 2 best assets have full no movement clauses. 

 

They need major moves, 

 

Call Vancouver, offer Price and Gallgher for Markstrom, Boesser a bad contract and a 1st. 

 

Call Edmonton, Offer Weber, ask Puujarvi, a nhl ready D prospect, a first and a bad contract. 

 

Tatar, Byron will have value at the trade deadline. 

 

Offering up a top prospect for Ghostispere is insane, he has been benched over the past 2 years by 2 different coaches, you think the habs a bad defensively now, watch that guy play in his own end

 

 

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