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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

The habs aren't 1 dman away from being contender, they are probably the 5th best team in there division. 

 

The habs need to unload and actually rebuild, big problem is the 2 best assets have full no movement clauses. 

 

They need major moves, 

 

Call Vancouver, offer Price and Gallgher for Markstrom, Boesser a bad contract and a 1st. 

 

Call Edmonton, Offer Weber, ask Puujarvi, a nhl ready D prospect, a first and a bad contract. 

 

Tatar, Byron will have value at the trade deadline. 

 

Offering up a top prospect for Ghostispere is insane, he has been benched over the past 2 years by 2 different coaches, you think the habs a bad defensively now, watch that guy play in his own end

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm not willing to take a young, competitive team (which this is) and gut it in order to endure 3-4 years of terrible hockey. Enough's enough.

 

What needs to change, organizationally, is the mentality that Price, Weber, and even Petry and Gallagher will continue to be good forever, and therefore that management can sit on its collective ass and wait around for three or fours years for all our supposedly fine prospects to mature. Sure, they'll be better. And our best players will be worse. That is a formula for lateral movement, not continuous improvement.

 

We have a bubble team right now. The goal should be to make it more than a bubble team, right now.

 

I did not understand how MB's summer of doing dick-all was acceptable to all these fans, and I still don't.

 

So, don't blow everything up. Rather, stop jerking around and start ACTUALLY ADDRESSING MAJOR ROSTER HOLES. Hey, maybe we could then make the playoffs with a few points to spare! Maybe we could even win a playoff round!! Imagine!!!

 

But I forgot...even modest success is no longer required for the Montreal Canadiens. Having a good prospect pool and the hope that we will be good in three years  is now more than enough for us to bow down and sing Hossanahs of praise to management.

 

 

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They have been a bubble team for 25 years, 

 

Not good enough in my opinion, 

 

They have not put anything resembling a cup contender for Price, nor will they under MB 

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33 minutes ago, Chris said:

They have been a bubble team for 25 years, 

 

Not good enough in my opinion, 

 

They have not put anything resembling a cup contender for Price, nor will they under MB 

 

We are a bubble team right now.

 

So add a LD, then see where we are. It seems logical to me that fixing our greatest structural flaw should tip the balance upwards, so the team is better positioned to actually make the playoffs. Do that, then, and see how the playoffs go.

 

Once that's done, we'll be in a position to assess what we need to do in order to improve on those results. That should then become the guiding star to our moves in the summer of 2020.

 

None of this requires blowing up the team. It just requires management that actually addresses huge structural weaknesses, and is committed to pushing the team forward.

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

We have a bubble team right now. The goal should be to make it more than a bubble team, right now.

 

I did not understand how MB's summer of doing dick-all was acceptable to all these fans, and I still don't.

 

I very much agree with the goal.

 

As for the summer, the difficulty I have with condemning the inaction is that we don't know what happens behind the scenes. What trades were possible? Could we have signed a UFA with a bit sweeter offer? Could we have moved some pieces to improve? This thread is fun for speculation, even assuming Bergevin is willing to play, we don't know which other teams would be willing to talk, and on what terms. It was disappointing, I agree, but we don't know what actual options were there for improvement.

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Well we know he did try to get Aho and was in on Duchene.

 

I think he should have tried to get an upgrade on D but at the same time the Ghost rumours were out there and the original ask was a 1v1 swap of him and Drouin. I’m glad now that they or Philly decided against it.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I'm sorry, I'm not willing to take a young, competitive team (which this is) and gut it in order to endure 3-4 years of terrible hockey. Enough's enough.

 

What needs to change, organizationally, is the mentality that Price, Weber, and even Petry and Gallagher will continue to be good forever, and therefore that management can sit on its collective ass and wait around for three or fours years for all our supposedly fine prospects to mature. Sure, they'll be better. And our best players will be worse. That is a formula for lateral movement, not continuous improvement.

 

We have a bubble team right now. The goal should be to make it more than a bubble team, right now.

 

I did not understand how MB's summer of doing dick-all was acceptable to all these fans, and I still don't.

 

So, don't blow everything up. Rather, stop jerking around and start ACTUALLY ADDRESSING MAJOR ROSTER HOLES. Hey, maybe we could then make the playoffs with a few points to spare! Maybe we could even win a playoff round!! Imagine!!!

 

But I forgot...even modest success is no longer required for the Montreal Canadiens. Having a good prospect pool and the hope that we will be good in three years  is now more than enough for us to bow down and sing Hossanahs of praise to management.

 

 

The earliest this team can be a true contender - in a best case scenario is 3 to 4 years.

 

are price and Weber still going to be elite at that time?  Will they even be worth their cap hit??  I say tease them now, trade Tatar and Byron (if possible).

 

try and get some lottery picks and true grade A prospects.  I’d rather endure another two years of no playoffs with the chance of getting a true superstar with a lottery pick than enduring a perpetual bubble team.

 

if this team was going to really go for it, bergevin needed to a make at least a reasonable offer sheet attempt to get a first line centre and a top pairing LD.  He struck out on both accounts and all summer all I heard was, yeah but the summer is not over yet he’ll make another move like last year to address the D.  As for the offer sheet attempt - every analyst said it was too low, with two few draft picks going to Carolina for them to even consider not matching.  On this site though most thought it was a good attempt.  This is a bubble team that will likely not make the playoffs and.if they do, will be slaughtered badly.  This isn’t a blues team that had the horses but needed a coaching/culture/style change.  They had the skill to be an elite team.  We don’t.

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7 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

Well we know he did try to get Aho and was in on Duchene.

 

I think he should have tried to get an upgrade on D but at the same time the Ghost rumours were out there and the original ask was a 1v1 swap of him and Drouin. I’m glad now that they or Philly decided against it.

The offer sheet was a joke and I don’t want a GM that tries. I want one that gets the friggin job done.

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24 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The offer sheet was a joke and I don’t want a GM that tries. I want one that gets the friggin job done.

 

Ok well I only half agree here because he did try but in the end I didn’t think giving up 2 first or even 4 firsts for Aho was worth it.

 

He does need to upgrade the D though, if he can’t do that this year and we miss the playoffs, this will be a big problem.

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27 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The offer sheet was a joke and I don’t want a GM that tries. I want one that gets the friggin job done.

 

 

THIS

 

MB has come up with nothing but excuses for failing to patch the glarning holes in this lineup.  I'm not at all shocked by this recent slide...this team is essentially at the same level as last season's team...same strengths, same flaws.  The only way this team was going to be significantly better at forward was for very young players to take quantum leaps in their development (not realistic).  As for the defense, there wasn't even that slim hope...our best LD prospect that might have provided even that unrealistic bit of hope is playing in the KHL this season.  The fact that Hudon is the best fill-in our system can provide when 2 forwards get injured...that's on MB too.  I tought we were a bubble team that would miss by a slim margin when the season started, and I can't say I feel any differently today.  It's frustrating to be sure, but given the reality of the roster on opening night, not surprising at all.

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1 hour ago, Scott462 said:

Well we know he did try to get Aho and was in on Duchene.

 

I think he should have tried to get an upgrade on D but at the same time the Ghost rumours were out there and the original ask was a 1v1 swap of him and Drouin. I’m glad now that they or Philly decided against it.

 

He also made an offer on Gardiner, who took less money per year in Carolina. 

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I'm sorry, I'm not willing to take a young, competitive team (which this is) and gut it in order to endure 3-4 years of terrible hockey. Enough's enough.

 

What needs to change, organizationally, is the mentality that Price, Weber, and even Petry and Gallagher will continue to be good forever, and therefore that management can sit on its collective ass and wait around for three or fours years for all our supposedly fine prospects to mature. Sure, they'll be better. And our best players will be worse. That is a formula for lateral movement, not continuous improvement.

 

We have a bubble team right now. The goal should be to make it more than a bubble team, right now.

 

I did not understand how MB's summer of doing dick-all was acceptable to all these fans, and I still don't.

 

So, don't blow everything up. Rather, stop jerking around and start ACTUALLY ADDRESSING MAJOR ROSTER HOLES. Hey, maybe we could then make the playoffs with a few points to spare! Maybe we could even win a playoff round!! Imagine!!!

 

But I forgot...even modest success is no longer required for the Montreal Canadiens. Having a good prospect pool and the hope that we will be good in three years  is now more than enough for us to bow down and sing Hossanahs of praise to management.

 

 

I totally agree, remember when I made the post earlier in the year about management/fans and media and the notion with them that as long as we have Price anything can happen and we don't need to put talented players in front of him.  This is exactly what I was talking about. Theres been no upgrades to this team in 2 years, and yet everyone thinks things will be different. 

 

Well same old team, same old tail spins , same old excuses.

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I don’t get the discussion. 
 

First of all, we haven’t been a bubble team for an entire 25 years. There have been seasons where we have had an outside chance at the whole thing. The Gionta/Cammalleri core had some good leadership and statistical output come playoff time. We’ve had plenty of mediocrity, mixed in with a good stretch of years where we were one of the top 8 teams in the league. One could word it as having been only “second tier contenders” rather than “first tier”, but they certainly were not only a bubble team. 
 

Second of all, I don’t understand where the notion comes from that “all fans” are happy with the status quo and that this would somehow have an impact on management and their decision making process. Even if it was true that most fans are content, which is something in and of itself that I disagree with, I don’t believe that this would mean that management are standing pat as a result. 
 

I personally feel that those who always talk about being a contender “three years down the road” are a small subset of the fan base, and while it’s not true for all of them, most of these same people have been saying the same thing every time the Habs go on a losing streak.


“The Habs can only be competitive in 3 years”

 

It was somehow specific the year we traded Pacioretty that we could only be good in 3 years. Not 2 years, not 4 years, but 3. Now it’s the same old song. 
 

My personal stance is that the Habs should usually be able to be a competitive team as long as we spend to the cap. In the past 2-3 seasons, we have failed to do so and so I believe that this puts our team behind the 8 ball. We can’t expect successs, when other teams are using all their available assets and we are not. 
 

I agree that we should focus on team needs and am certainly on the side (as I usually would be) that we should focus on improving the team, rather than trade away our best players for “potential“ down the road.
 

 

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I don’t get the discussion. 
 

First of all, we haven’t been a bubble team for an entire 25 years. There have been seasons where we have had an outside chance at the whole thing. The Gionta/Cammalleri core had some good leadership and statistical output come playoff time. We’ve had plenty of mediocrity, mixed in with a good stretch of years where we were one of the top 8 teams in the league. One could word it as having been only “second tier contenders” rather than “first tier”, but they certainly were not only a bubble team. 
 

Second of all, I don’t understand where the notion comes from that “all fans” are happy with the status quo and that this would somehow have an impact on management and their decision making process. Even if it was true that most fans are content, which is something in and of itself that I disagree with, I don’t believe that this would mean that management are standing pat as a result. 
 

I personally feel that those who always talk about being a contender “three years down the road” are a small subset of the fan base, and while it’s not true for all of them, most of these same people have been saying the same thing every time the Habs go on a losing streak.


“The Habs can only be competitive in 3 years”

 

It was somehow specific the year we traded Pacioretty that we could only be good in 3 years. Not 2 years, not 4 years, but 3. Now it’s the same old song. 
 

My personal stance is that the Habs should usually be able to be a competitive team as long as we spend to the cap. In the past 2-3 seasons, we have failed to do so and so I believe that this puts our team behind the 8 ball. We can’t expect successs, when other teams are using all their available assets and we are not. 
 

I agree that we should focus on team needs and am certainly on the side (as I usually would be) that we should focus on improving the team, rather than trade away our best players for “potential“ down the road.
 

 

Spending to the cap is not what’s going to make us competitive, if it’s cap money on bums like Alzner.  We need to spend on top end talent.  We’ve spend to the cap on crap before and it got us nowhere.


I think you are making revisionist history with the cammi/gionta years - those were still bubble years.  
 

in 2009/10 we got into the playoffs with 88 points - a bubble team that rode halak to the semis.  The following year we got 95 or 96 points and lost in the first round.

 

we had a couple of good 100 point years where Carey price was either the best player in the world or close to it. But we were never a really good team that anybody considered a serious contender.

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2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

I totally agree, remember when I made the post earlier in the year about management/fans and media and the notion with them that as long as we have Price anything can happen and we don't need to put talented players in front of him.  This is exactly what I was talking about. Theres been no upgrades to this team in 2 years, and yet everyone thinks things will be different. 

 

Well same old team, same old tail spins , same old excuses.

Not true, Chariot, Fleury and Thompson are upgrades. Drouin 2.0 is an upgrade, this year's Suzuki is an upgrade on last year's Kotkaniemi. 

 

They have failed at adding elite LD and an elite scoring winger with size.

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15 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Not true, Chariot, Fleury and Thompson are upgrades. Drouin 2.0 is an upgrade, this year's Suzuki is an upgrade on last year's Kotkaniemi. 

 

They have failed at adding elite LD and an elite scoring winger with size.

As much as I like Fleury , Suzuki and Kotkaniemi, they should all be developing in the AHL right now. Chariot is Ben 2.0 so is that really an upgrade? Thompson is a great 4th liner. But in the last 2 years what upgrades to our top 6 have been done? Or our top 4 on D. Zero0️⃣ . All that has been ever added to this team are 3rd/4th line players or/and rookies that aren't fully developed and/or NHL ready. 

 

Why is our team being run like a small market team? We should be run like the big market team that we are. Spend to the cap every year add top end talent To the team. Don't put AHL players on the team and say hey as long as Price doesn't let in any goals all season we should be fine. Because that's  Exactly  what's been happening here since Price became an elite player in this league.

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I don't get why many are so focused on spending to the cap. In my opinion you spend to the cap when a good opportunity comes up, not waste it on a mediocre player that will make you marginally better. MB has made attempts but some players don't want to come here.  He has some cap room and hopefully a good opportunity will come up where he can use it wisely. He also has players coming up that will get raises (ie. Domi, Gallagher).  He has to think about that as well. 

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9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I don't get why many are so focused on spending to the cap. In my opinion you spend to the cap when a good opportunity comes up, not waste it on a mediocre player that will make you marginally better. MB has made attempts but some players don't want to come here.  He has some cap room and hopefully a good opportunity will come up where he can use it wisely. He also has players coming up that will get raises (ie. Domi, Gallagher).  He has to think about that as well. 

Look at the jets and how they are run, its night and day compared to us. They can't get ufa's to go their but they still pull off trades for top end talent to make their team competitive. They just don't sit back and do nothing.

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5 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Look at the jets and how they are run, its night and day compared to us. They can't get ufa's to go their but they still pull off trades for top end talent to make their team competitive. They just don't sit back and do nothing.

The Jets? And they have won what exactly

Leafs spend to cap and has it helped them at all? They won all of 2 playoff games more than Habs last year.

Flames have spent and where are they headed.:popcorn:

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14 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Look at the jets and how they are run, its night and day compared to us. They can't get ufa's to go their but they still pull off trades for top end talent to make their team competitive. They just don't sit back and do nothing.

 

Most organizations would not wait seven years to acquire a legitimate top-6 C, when their existing top-6 C are Desharnais and Pleks. Our guy's strategy was basically to wait until both of those guys aged out and the entire franchise cratered because we had ZERO top-6 C. Mission accomplished.

 

Most organizations probably would not wait three years to replace their top LD, either. Yet MB is entering 2 1/2 years of no Markov replacement. His strategy appears to be to duplicate the winning strategy he adopted at C, i.e., do absolutely nothing meaningful, because it's too "tough."

 

I don't care if we spend to the cap or not. I just want glaring structural problems addressed. Seems to me that's a huge part of what GMs are supposed to do. Our guy is just fine at tinkering around with the bottom parts of the roster; he's quite good at that, in fact. But when it comes to huge roster holes, he acts with all the urgency and alacrity of your average three-toed sloth.

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24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Most organizations would not wait seven years to acquire a legitimate top-6 C, when their existing top-6 C are Desharnais and Pleks. Our guy's strategy was basically to wait until both of those guys aged out and the entire franchise cratered because we had ZERO top-6 C. Mission accomplished.

 

Most organizations probably would not wait three years to replace their top LD, either. Yet MB is entering 2 1/2 years of no Markov replacement. His strategy appears to be to duplicate the winning strategy he adopted at C, i.e., do absolutely nothing meaningful, because it's too "tough."

 

I don't care if we spend to the cap or not. I just want glaring structural problems addressed. Seems to me that's a huge part of what GMs are supposed to do. Our guy is just fine at tinkering around with the bottom parts of the roster; he's quite good at that, in fact. But when it comes to huge roster holes, he acts with all the urgency and alacrity of your average three-toed sloth.

you just described bureaucracy in Qc lollll MB been hanging out too much with Codere the old mayor lollll

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Where else can you fail to make the playoffs 5 out of 8 years (assuming this year) and not get canned in a major market? 

 

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On a more positive note, I’m hearing whisperings that Montreal is definitely interested in Taylor Hall and that Hall could be interested in signing in Montreal.

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31 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

On a more positive note, I’m hearing whisperings that Montreal is definitely interested in Taylor Hall and that Hall could be interested in signing in Montreal.

 

Don't get too excited. We hear similar whisperings every time there is a high-profile impending UFA. But it'd be fun if it happened.

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So do we want Bergevin to overpay for players to get them to sign here and to fill a hole or do we want more Alzners? 

 

Either way he sucks eh?

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20 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Don't get too excited. We hear similar whisperings every time there is a high-profile impending UFA. But it'd be fun if it happened.

 

It would be fun if it happened, if the contract was somewhat reasonable and if Taylor has grown up since his time in Edmonton. When was the last time a high profile free agent chose Montreal over somebody else especially when that free agent would have multiple offers. He will choose the biggest offer and it won't be Montreal or New Jersey. 

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