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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

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7 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I love Price, but if Byrom was on the table you make that move and don't think twice. 

 

However, I highly doubt that deal is available.  Its not based in any fact, its just some idle speculation from some Colorado radio host of what he would consider doing, but I doubt he has any idea what it would take to get Price, and what Byrom is really worth. 

 

The weird X-factor here is Montreal's "tradition" of trading goalies with Colorado. Obviously their theft of Roy is one of the great managerial triumphs in their history and probably the single most disastrous trade in Habs' history. The Theodore-Abeischer deal was more of an even split (mediocrity for mediocrity). I don't know to what extent this history makes a trade more or less likely, or whether it's completely irrelevant, but I suspect the Roy experience, at least, may prime the Colorado franchise to be disproportionately tempted at the thought of a repeat. It also (probably) makes Colorado hockey media more likely to think in those terms. All that said, the deal sounds too good to be true...and we don't even know that Price, who can veto any trade, wants out.

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11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The weird X-factor here is Montreal's "tradition" of trading goalies with Colorado. Obviously their theft of Roy is one of the great managerial triumphs in their history and probably the single most disastrous trade in Habs' history. The Theodore-Abeischer deal was more of an even split (mediocrity for mediocrity). I don't know to what extent this history makes a trade more or less likely, or whether it's completely irrelevant, but I suspect the Roy experience, at least, may prime the Colorado franchise to be disproportionately tempted at the thought of a repeat. It also (probably) makes Colorado hockey media more likely to think in those terms. All that said, the deal sounds too good to be true...and we don't even know that Price, who can veto any trade, wants out.

Price is playing like he was just before Therrien FINALLY got fired and it this point I’m sure he’d wave to to a contender- particularly one in the west.

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Unless MB agrees to eat some salary, hard to see any team taking CP31's contract. 

 

Tatar seems like an enticing chip though.. could we get a 1st and a prospect..? Maybe to Edmonton for their first and Puljaarvi?

 

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2 hours ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

Tatar seems like an enticing chip though.. could we get a 1st and a prospect..? Maybe to Edmonton for their first and Puljaarvi?

 

Edmonton's GM has said they're not trading their first rounder unless they're a surefire bet to make the playoffs (which they're not).  I also don't think the Habs would have any interest in Puljujarvi nor does he carry much in the way of value. 

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3 hours ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

Maybe to Edmonton for their first and Puljaarvi?

 

No Puljaaarvi thanks.

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3 hours ago, dlbalr said:

Edmonton's GM has said they're not trading their first rounder unless they're a surefire bet to make the playoffs (which they're not).  I also don't think the Habs would have any interest in Puljujarvi nor does he carry much in the way of value. 

 

Puljujarvi may be a credible NHL player yet, but given that he has not set the Liiga on fire this year, I do wonder whether he has the potential for a first-line role. And given that, I agree that the Habs would be unlikely to pursue him.

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Here's a question, 

 

What would a package deal of Byron and Poehling bring us back in a trade? Would it get us a top 4 D?

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22 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Here's a question, 

 

What would a package deal of Byron and Poehling bring us back in a trade? Would it get us a top 4 D?

 

Trading Poehling would go against any semblance of the plan that has been getting cooked for the past 2 years. We would more likely wait for Romanov to enter the top 4 D than trade Poehling, because that is what you do when you are building through youth/draft, you don't trade them away.

 

When you enter borderline contender status, you can consider trading away some youth for the piece that gets you over the top. Until then, you don't, you stay patient and keep swinging at bat during the draft to fill the cupboard up. 

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2 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

Trading Poehling would go against any semblance of the plan that has been getting cooked for the past 2 years. We would more likely wait for Romanov to enter the top 4 D than trade Poehling, because that is what you do when you are building through youth/draft, you don't trade them away.

 

When you enter borderline contender status, you can consider trading away some youth for the piece that gets you over the top. Until then, you don't, you stay patient and keep swinging at bat during the draft to fill the cupboard up. 

Ok so if you’re building through the draft , why in the world are we pushing for a playoff spot? We should be pushing for a lottery pick.

 

this is the problem in Montreal and why we will always be nothing more then a bubble team. People want a rebuild yet they don’t want to go through the losing part of a rebuild. Never makes any logic to me.

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7 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Ok so if you’re building through the draft , why in the world are we pushing for a playoff spot? We should be pushing for a lottery pick.

 

this is the problem in Montreal and why we will always be nothing more then a bubble team. People want a rebuild yet they don’t want to go through the losing part of a rebuild. Never makes any logic to me.

 

This has already been explained multiple times.

 

You have a number of kids on the team.  You dont put them in an environment that losing is acceptable.  You give them the experience of playing in high pressure games surrounded by a group of leaders who are trying to win and teaching them what is necessary to win.

 

Its not a video game.  You are dealing with actual people and you have to work to develop them... not just say lets put a bunch of high draft picks in a bowl and it will work out.

 

We see what is happening in Buffalo.  You saw what happened when edmonton had the yakupov, hall, rnh team, arizona did this for years, toronto too.

 

You want to make this ten years of living in the wilderness.... sure... trade away all the vets... tank for high picks and develop the players you have and get in an environment where it is okay to lose cause we dont want to make the playoffs, we want a high pick.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

This has already been explained multiple times.

 

You have a number of kids on the team.  You dont put them in an environment that losing is acceptable.  You give them the experience of playing in high pressure games surrounded by a group of leaders who are trying to win and teaching them what is necessary to win.

 

Its not a video game.  You are dealing with actual people and you have to work to develop them... not just say lets put a bunch of high draft picks in a bowl and it will work out.

 

We see what is happening in Buffalo.  You saw what happened when edmonton had the yakupov, hall, rnh team, arizona did this for years, toronto too.

 

You want to make this ten years of living in the wilderness.... sure... trade away all the vets... tank for high picks and develop the players you have and get in an environment where it is okay to lose cause we dont want to make the playoffs, we want a high pick.

This comment/argument makes me realize why Montreal will always be nothing more then a bubble team. Fighting for the last playoff spot and not making it. Always blaming injuries and players having down years.

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7 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

This comment/argument makes me realize why Montreal will always be nothing more then a bubble team. Fighting for the last playoff spot and not making it. Always blaming injuries and players having down years.

 

This comment/argument makes me realize that you cant see the forest from the trees and do think running a team is like playing playstation.  You cant accept that a good team is built and is not created instantly... and even if they followed your plan to tank... youd be screaming that the players drafted are busts and they need to fire everyone and tank again when they still arent making the playoffs three years from now.

 

Tanking guarantees nothing... especially when the last place team is 18.5% for 1st overall.  The last 4 teams are only 53% COMBINED to get 1st overall.   

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9 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

We should be pushing for a lottery pick.

Sorry, his team is just too good to be picking very high, will be picking 10th -20th. If Price, Petry or Weber gets seriously hurt, then they may sink pretty low. But, Gallagher, Drouin and Byron will be returning and just cant see that hurting team neither.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

This comment/argument makes me realize that you cant see the forest from the trees and do think running a team is like playing playstation.  You cant accept that a good team is built and is not created instantly... and even if they followed your plan to tank... youd be screaming that the players drafted are busts and they need to fire everyone and tank again when they still arent making the playoffs three years from now.

 

Tanking guarantees nothing... especially when the last place team is 18.5% for 1st overall.  The last 4 teams are only 53% COMBINED to get 1st overall.   

Tell that to the team's that have won cup's this way and have drafted and develop elite superstars this way. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

Tell that to the team's that have won cup's this way and have drafted and develop elite superstars this way. 

 

 

 

St. Louis had what high picks?  Erik Johnson... just one and that was more than 10 years ago.

 

They faced Boston in the final... they had kessel more than 10 years ago and Seguin in 2011... neither of whom is on the team and Seguin wasnt by tanking... it was by trading kessel... so only 1 high pick.

 

Vegas made the final with castoffs.

 

Washingtons high picks were 2... Ovechkin and backstrom and were more than 10 years ago.  They got absolute studs in holtby, carlson and kuznetsov with later picks.

 

Pittsburgh had all those high picks years ago... but guess what... there is no crosby or malkin in this draft and even if there was... you have a 1/5 chance of even getting first overall and thats by finishing last.  You arent finishing below detroit, ottawa or the LA Kings... so now we are talking the lottery odds of 4th which is less than 10%. Replicating pittsburgh? Not gonna happen.

 

Pitts beat san jose and nashville in the finals... neither team tanked.

 

Chicago... ok... heres one that you could copy but you still need duncan keith in the second round... brent seabrook in the mid first... corey crawford late in the draft... marian hossa to join as the best ufa in the league... oh and you need to get lucky on the lottery again and the odds are much worse today than when they got kane and toews.

 

La... one top pick in doughty and an 12th overall in kopitar.

 

Rangers made the finals... no tanks on that team.

 

Jersey made the finals... no tanks there.

 

Wanna do more?  Go ahead.

 

Meanwhile edmonton, buffalo, and other tankers... aint won shit.

 

Montreal has drouin, kk as two third overalls on the team... price as a top 5... domi as a high pick (traded for a 3rd overall too) and guys like suzuki and caufield on the way.  You keep building around that core... not tear it down and tank which is no guarantee. 

 

You can finish last in the nhl for 5 straight years and at just 18.5% of getting 1st overall you might get 1 pick or none.  The league changed the rules on the lottery after mcdavid and the incentives to tanking just arent there any more.  The odds arent in your favour anymore.  This is the reality in 2020.  The old rules that built chicago and Pittsburgh dont apply.  The advantages to tanking then... last place was 48.5% to.get #1... dont apply today 18.5%

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20200120_190342.jpg

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LOL 😂

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11 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

This comment/argument makes me realize why Montreal will always be nothing more then a bubble team. Fighting for the last playoff spot and not making it. Always blaming injuries and players having down years.

Last year no one complained about injuries too much (Weber was the big one) and several players had career years.

This year is kinda the opposite.

But 2009 Kovalev was last Habs forwards to get an All-Star nod and simply need to get more skill, through draft or trade, somehow!😣

Has been 1985-86 since a Hab (Naslund) finished in the top ten in scoring.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, DON said:

Last year no one complained about injuries too much (Weber was the big one) and several players had career years.

This year is kinda the opposite.

But 2009 Kovalev was last Habs forwards to get an All-Star nod and simply need to get more skill, through draft or trade, somehow!😣

Has been 1985-86 since a Hab (Naslund) finished in the top ten in scoring.

 

Agree that we need more skill up front. 

 

Not sure the forwards making the allstar game is the best argument though.... I mean Max should have been an all-star several times.  He was hurt by the fact that there was a rule of 1 all-star per team and it was either Price or Subban already going to the game, and so he wasn't picked cause they took some lesser forward from another team that had no all star.  He was consistently top 10 in the NHL in goals, so should have made an all-star game along the way if not for that rule. 

 

But yes... we need an offensive stud.  We have a deep team but getting that real gamebreaker isn't easy. 

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15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Agree that we need more skill up front. 

 

Not sure the forwards making the allstar game is the best argument though.... I mean Max should have been an all-star several times.  He was hurt by the fact that there was a rule of 1 all-star per team and it was either Price or Subban already going to the game, and so he wasn't picked cause they took some lesser forward from another team that had no all star.  He was consistently top 10 in the NHL in goals, so should have made an all-star game along the way if not for that rule. 

 

But yes... we need an offensive stud.  We have a deep team but getting that real gamebreaker isn't easy. 

Adding Oho might of done it, or perhaps a washed up russian who is producing same as the youngster, with full Habs roster?

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The increasing likelihood that KK will not emerge as an elite player really puts a crimp in all the 'we'll contend in three years' stuff, IMHO. The projected organizational charts sure look better if we pretend that KK is destined to be a stud. If he doesn't work put that way, it weakens the picture considerably.

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The increasing likelihood that KK will not emerge as an elite player really puts a crimp in all the 'we'll contend in three years' stuff, IMHO. The projected organizational charts sure look better if we pretend that KK is destined to be a stud. If he doesn't work put that way, it weakens the picture considerably.

 

Not following here...

 

First off, as a prime example of why you don't do this kind of thing with young players, imagine for a moment if Barkov and Huberdeau had their NHL careers defined and predicted during their second season, how wrong would every projection be compared to what they are delivering presently? Imagine trying to determine a player's eventual ceiling while he is playing in the league as a 19 year old. We have no clue what this kid is going to become, trying to insinuate that he is likely a bust when he is barely 115 games into his career and not even 20 is ambitiously negative to say the least. History has shown us very often, that elite players don't round out until between the ages of 21 - 24, trying to pin point what he will be prior to that is likely setting yourself up for a failed projection. What we know is he is packed full of talent, he has every tool needed to become a star in this league, at a position of great importance.

 

Secondly, if for whatever reason, he becomes Lars Eller 3.0, we still have another young center, who in his rookie season is really opening eyes already himself, he goes by the name of Nick Suzuki. Our 3 year outlook at center hasn't looked this potentially good in this entire millennium, I really don't see why this scenario dampens the potential to contend in the coming years for you. We need some help at LD, it is the most glaring need for this team to take a step forward, and depending on who eventually takes that spot, will determine how big of a step forward we take. I think most of us are hoping Romanov can be that guy in a big way, and from there, the core players in the core positions of the team that will be coming together in the next 3 years looks very well placed to make some noise. After that it simply becomes a matter of what pieces you stick to the board to make that core of young players even better, that is yet to be determined.

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Has Bergevin made more trades at the drafts than any other GM? He always seems to be deferring picks for extra ones.

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17 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The increasing likelihood that KK will not emerge as an elite player really puts a crimp in all the 'we'll contend in three years' stuff, IMHO. The projected organizational charts sure look better if we pretend that KK is destined to be a stud. If he doesn't work put that way, it weakens the picture considerably.

 

I've said for a while now, he's unlikely to ever be a top 10 in scoring kind of player. 

 

That doesn't mean he can't be a stud.  I still think he can be a kopitar/bergeron type of 70 point Centre with Selke level defensive game... and you can't turn your nose up at that. 

 

I just don't think you are going to get the 90-95 point seasons out of him. 

 

With the way Suzuki's looked, it could be the Bergeron/Krejci like duo... which has had the Bruins as contenders for much of the past decade and was the one-two centre punch on 3 cup finalists and one cup winner in that time.... Add in Danault, whose proven his own defensive ability and top 6 scoring ability... and you could have the core of a strong group up the middle. 

 

There are also plenty of young wingers on the team and in the system with Caufield, Ylonen, Fonstad, etc.... 

 

The next step is making sure you have enough on the blue line.... Romanov looks like a stud, but you need more.  If we do miss the playoffs and aren't lucky enough to be picking top 2 with a chance at Lafreniere or Byfield.... my pick for this team would be Jamie Drysdale.  He could be a perfect match with Romanov on a top pair one day.    He could go anywhere from 3-8 depending on what teams are looking at. 

 

If we are further down in the teens... a Braden Schneider, Justin Barron, or Jeremie Poirier become options on the blue line.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DON said:

Has Bergevin made more trades at the drafts than any other GM? He always seems to be deferring picks for extra ones.

 

Trading down is never a bad strategy, especially if you are doing it outside the top 15 in the draft or so. 

 

The difference between one 2nd rounder, and two picks in the third round... tells you to always bet on having the two picks over the one.... and thats true in every subsequent round. 

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