DON Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I have not seen this trade proposal, based on MB's scouting of COL: To Colorado: Max Domi and Lindgren (may add 3rd round 2020 if needed) To Montreal: 1st round 2020, Conor Timmins(RD) and Adam Werner(G) It helps the Avalanche short-term and gives them some goalie depth (from what I read, seems they need that). Why would they do it: They've lost Kadri and seem to need offensive help. For Montreal, it clears the logjam at center for the prospects, gets a solid RD prospect and adds a 1st round pick in 2020. Timmins and Werner are exempt from the Seattle expansion and seem to be solid prospects. from the Athletic: Still, they have a deep prospect pool that could probably withstand the loss of an Alex Newhook or defenceman Conor Timmins or even a Martin Kaut, who made his NHL debut Wednesday in front of Bergevin, while they maximize their current window by adding Tatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 45 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Point take on who they may be scouting. Domi seems to fit in COL, question is who would the CH want back Why does domi fit them more than tatar or kovalchuk. I have heard far more rumours with those two and colorado than domi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, Commandant said: Why does domi fit them more than tatar or kovalchuk. I have heard far more rumours with those two and colorado than domi. My pet project, I guess. Of course Tatar fits on any team better and Kovalchuk may be a good complement on most teams. I shoul drephrase my sentences on the benefits for each club. Out of MTL, Domi is the one I would trade, Kovalchuk is a 50%-50% (or 60%- 40% like some have written) to be traded, Tatar is the one teams are inquiring about. Domi is a center and because of the loss of Kadri, he fits better than a winger. He can produce from a 3rd line on a cup contender. He fits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Raantanen is a bigger loss than kadri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Im also not big on trading domi for an unproven prospect like timmins. A first round pick and a goalie prospect. That seems like the whole boat vs mystery box argument again. We are talking about timmins, a good but not great prospect. This isnt byram who went 4th overall... its a guy picked in the 2nd round (32nd) who also has a concussion history (missed a full season) who looks good in the ahl but hes not a sure thing to be a top 4 d. Hes not a cant miss guy like Byram. If we move a 24 year old with a 70 point season... i want a young d who is already proven to be a top 4. Im not moving a 24 year old proven player for a maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Commandant said: Im also not big on trading domi for an unproven prospect like timmins. A first round pick and a goalie prospect. That seems like the whole boat vs mystery box argument again. We are talking about timmins, a good but not great prospect. This isnt byram who went 4th overall... its a guy picked in the 2nd round (32nd) who also has a concussion history (missed a full season) who looks good in the ahl but hes not a sure thing to be a top 4 d. If we move a 24 year old with a 70 point season... i want a young d who is already proven to be a top 4. Im not moving a 24 year old proven player for a maybe. You are very high on Domi. I am disillusioned with him, seems like he thought he had "arrived" an lost his mojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Just now, alfredoh2009 said: You are very high on Domi. I am disillusioned with him, seems like he thought he had "arrived" an lost his mojo Players can have a bad season. It happens. Im high on proven young players. A 24 year old is just entering his best years and has already proven he can score in the NHL. In my mind you dont move that unless you are getting a player back with similar age and who has also been similar in proving he can be an impact player in the NHL. Im not trading him for some late first round pick and a maybe prospect. The best case scenario with the pick and prospect is that we get someone as impactful as domi was last season in 3-4 years down the road. The worst case scenario is that they never reach that level. I dont see why we would want a mystery box. If he moves it has to be a legit proven return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, Commandant said: We are talking about timmins, a good but not great prospect. This isnt byram who went 4th overall... its a guy picked in the 2nd round (32nd) who also has a concussion history (missed a full season) who looks good in the ahl but hes not a sure thing to be a top 4 d. Hes not a cant miss guy like Byram. Concussion history is a huge red flag for me. Especially with the very recent Juulsen struggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I'd be very dissapointed (again) if Bergevin makes a lateral move involving Domi instead of adding to Domi to get at least a Brodin/Fowler/Hampus type of player. Screw the 1 on 1 trade or the picks and prospects. Let's be the buyers if we move Domi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Does one good season = proven? I'm on the fence with Domi and I can certainly see your argument that he has proven himself because of his 70 point season but he has proven to be a mediocre in 4 out of 5 seasons. This may be a down year that he will bounce back from but it is very plausible that Domi is that mediocre player that had one good season. To me it is a risk to trade him and also a risk to keep him. If a great offer is there then why take the chance? 1 good season, 4 mediocre seasons... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I think all this losing gets to players, I just hope that Montreal players don't think this is the normal in Montreal. Look what it has done in Buffalo. Plus Domi hasn't been able to play with the same line mates all year do to team injuries. So for me i wouldn't give up on Domi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: I think all this losing gets to players, I just hope that Montreal players don't think this is the normal in Montreal. Look what it has done in Buffalo. This is a fear of mine also. If the best you ever do for a stretch is squeak in as a bubble team, with some outright terrible years sprinkled in as well, the danger of creating a losing culture is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Seems like a 20 goal scorer, a complementary F inconsistent on the D side of the puck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said: Seems like a 20 goal scorer, a complementary F inconsistent on the D side of the puck Streaky, soft in his own end, looks useless when he's not on a scoring tear eh? I read that and the immediate thought that popped into my head: Max Domi is 'Pacioretty lite' 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Scoring at a 50 point pace (which hes done in 4/5 seasons) is still a top 6 nhl forward. Thats proven... which a 1st round pick in the 20s and a prospect who was a second rounder and has done well in the ahl but not special... is not. Hes a legit top.6 forward in the league. Those two pieces may or may not be better. Thats without even considering the age. We are also talking a 24 year old, which means his prime years are likely to come. You are saying 4 mediocre seasons but hes likely to be better over the next 5 years than he was at 20, 21, 22 which are three of the years we are looking at. Most players are better ar 25, 26, 27 etc... than they were at 20, 21, 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 For the record, I'm neither for nor against keeping Max fundamentally...for me it's all about value. I'd keep him if the money is reasonable. I would not even consider keeping him if he demands huge money though, as his numbers simply don't justify overpaying. Made that mistake with Price already....can't afford to do it again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, Commandant said: Scoring at a 50 point pace (which hes done in 4/5 seasons) is still a top 6 nhl forward. Thats proven... which a 1st round pick in the 20s and a prospect who was a second rounder and has done well in the ahl but not special... is not. Hes a legit top.6 forward in the league. Those two pieces may or may not be better. Thats without even considering the age. We are also talking a 24 year old, which means his prime years are likely to come. You are saying 4 mediocre seasons but hes likely to be better over the next 5 years than he was at 20, 21, 22 which are three of the years we are looking at. Most players are better ar 25, 26, 27 etc... than they were at 20, 21, 22 I agree that what we have in Domi is the 50 point player which at face value is a top 6 forward if we consider points. If we consider his game in totality then is he really a top 6 player? He is poor on faceoffs, poor defensively and despite his hard work he does some really stupid penalty stuff. I'm not trying to throw Domi away because as I've said, I don't know yet but if a good offer comes then we should jump on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I agree that what we have in Domi is the 50 point player which at face value is a top 6 forward if we consider points. If we consider his game in totality then is he really a top 6 player? He is poor on faceoffs, poor defensively and despite his hard work he does some really stupid penalty stuff. I'm not trying to throw Domi away because as I've said, I don't know yet but if a good offer comes then we should jump on it. Anyone is tradeable for a good offer. We have to define what is a good offer for domi though. To me a good offer is a player of similar age who is proven to be a top 4 dman or a cant miss blue chip prospect. Im not interested in an offer of a pick in the 20s and a good but not great prospect. Im not interested in Timmins plus colorados 1st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Wow, another 50 point player, fantastic, There will be more than a handful of players this year with more goals then 50, when is 50 points a high mark for a top 6 player? That is the problem with habs thinking, average is good Danault the habs top center is on pace for like 55 points or so, that is terrible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 In Domi's case I would take Timmins and the 1st without question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 45 minutes ago, Chris said: Wow, another 50 point player, fantastic, There will be more than a handful of players this year with more goals then 50, when is 50 points a high mark for a top 6 player? That is the problem with habs thinking, average is good Danault the habs top center is on pace for like 55 points or so, that is terrible When did 50 points become acceptable for a top 6 player? Probably around the time that there were 31 teams and there are not 186 players who score 50 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Commandant said: Im also not big on trading domi for an unproven prospect like timmins. A first round pick and a goalie prospect. That seems like the whole boat vs mystery box argument again. We are talking about timmins, a good but not great prospect. This isnt byram who went 4th overall... its a guy picked in the 2nd round (32nd) who also has a concussion history (missed a full season) who looks good in the ahl but hes not a sure thing to be a top 4 d. Hes not a cant miss guy like Byram. If we move a 24 year old with a 70 point season... i want a young d who is already proven to be a top 4. Im not moving a 24 year old proven player for a maybe. Commandant, you are better at evaluating prospects. I did not know about Timmins' concussion history. Domi for 1st round pick in 2020, Werner and either Graves or Zadorov would work for me. For Byram COL may ask too much but I would consider it if within reach. I want that 20s 1st round pick in 2020 and a 24 year old LD. I also want a goalie to replace Kinkaid and McNiven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 exactly, set the bar low, thats what you get The habs need some PPG players and ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chris said: exactly, set the bar low, thats what you get The habs need some PPG players and ASAP Keeping domi unless someone trades a top 4 dman for him doesnt prevent the team from seeking ppg players. This should be obvious, but apparently not. There is also the possibility that a guy who scored on a 50 point pace at age 20, 21, and 22... and over 70 at 23.... can be back in the 60s and 70s at 25, 26, 27 etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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