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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


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3 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Thinking BIG here and not saying this is what we should do... but, maybe MB does dip into the UFA market 

 

what about Tanev out of VAN to shore up the right side?

Hall as a true LW to replace Domi?

and then a big trade to land Laine with Domi going the other way?

 

Obviously I haven't  considered the CAP implications at all in these proposals or contract limits for Winnipeg but what a line up that would be if healthy!

 

Can Laine be had for Domi, Poehling (Brook or Harris) 2 x 2020 2nd RD, 2020 3rd RD, 2021 2nd RD? ( prospects & picks are negotiable) BUT KK suzuki, caufield, primeau , romanov and Norlinder are off the table

 

still thats an overpayment on the Habs for the winger  I believe but...

 

Consider 4 picks, a D prospect, a C prospect and a current C for there 2nd line for a high scoring winger

we keep all our blue chip prospects and our 1st rounder in 2020 and jets get needed cap relief, a big bump to a depleted prospect pool and immediate help for Schiefele down the middle

 

Considering what we got for Patches... we are paying a high price (even so Patches deal was done with Pacioretty signing simultaneously)

 

Hall ufa 3 x 9.5 million

tanev ufa 3x 6million

 

line up would look something like this for a year before a restructure the next season with players like KK, gallagher, petry, tatar and danault needing deals.

 

Drouin Suzuki Laine/ Dadonov/ Toffoli/ Hoffman

Hall/ Gaudreau KK Armia 

Tatar Danault Gallagher

Byron Evans Lehkonan

Belzile

 

Chairot Weber

Kulak Petry

Romanov Tanev

Mete  Fleury

 

Price

Demchenko

 

 thats a helluva line up

 

 

other options could be trading for Gaudreau instead of Laine (obvious rumours of the day currently)

and signing Dadonov, Toffoli or Hoffman at a cheaper rate then Hall

Like the lineup, but we’d be in cap hell next year and don’t like that kind of money for Taney. I also can’t see Hall signing a three year deal Unless it’s for more money. More likely is $9.5M for 7 years, or 1 or 2 year deal.  I can’t see him

coming to Montreal, most likely heading home to Calgary.

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1 hour ago, Meller93 said:

Domi, Brook and a 2nd

for

Laine

 

I hear Laine/Ehlers are otb

 

i don’t see Connor being traded 

That would never get done.  Winnipeg is not moving Laine unless they get immediate help on the blueline.  Would have to top pairing or middle pairing with additional assets.  We have only two options Weber and Petry.  
 

Petry is out for two reasons. First, he’s a UFA I. Another year and I can’t see Winnipeg getting someone without term.  Second, he’s got a limited NTC and I’m almost sure Winnipeg would be in the list. 
 

that leaves Weber. I know most here and MB probably wouldn’t even consider moving Mountain man.  But if he can get you Laine, I’d do it in a second.  If you can move Weber-Mete, Weber-Tatar and evening if you need to throw in a pick I’d make that move.  Weber has 2 or 3 elite years MAYBE.  Laine should be elite for the next decade.  You probably would have to need to get another top pairing dman and IMO another top 4, but I think we have the assets to do it.
 

moving Weber makes signing Petry for 4 or 5 years doable.  Than you go out and make. Deal for OEL who is rumoured to be in the block,       or take a run at Pietrangelo.  He’s rumoured to wanting to return to St Louis, but maybe if we make some other moves like improving the offence and adding another D he may want to join Price and the kids.

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4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Like the lineup, but we’d be in cap hell next year and don’t like that kind of money for Taney. I also can’t see Hall signing a three year deal Unless it’s for more money. More likely is $9.5M for 7 years, or 1 or 2 year deal.  I can’t see him

coming to Montreal, most likely heading home to Calgary.

I really wasnt counting the CAP as stated and the deals to both Tanev and Hall were the high water mark considering Tanev currently makes 4.5 and will get a raise and Hall is the highest rated offensive piece on the market. 

 

Personally I'm ok without Tanev as well...

However I'm open to moving marginal prospects and as many picks needed to land more legit offense. 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

That would never get done.  Winnipeg is not moving Laine unless they get immediate help on the blueline.  Would have to top pairing or middle pairing with additional assets.  We have only two options Weber and Petry.  
 

Petry is out for two reasons. First, he’s a UFA I. Another year and I can’t see Winnipeg getting someone without term.  Second, he’s got a limited NTC and I’m almost sure Winnipeg would be in the list. 
 

that leaves Weber. I know most here and MB probably wouldn’t even consider moving Mountain man.  But if he can get you Laine, I’d do it in a second ...

 

 

One consideration is that Laine is a UFA next "July 1, 2021" (whenever that UFA date will end up being) ... so unless contract can be discussed before a trade he could prove to be a one year rental the risk factor is somewhat high.

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2 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I really wasnt counting the CAP as stated and the deals to both Tanev and Hall were the high water mark considering Tanev currently makes 4.5 and will get a raise and Hall is the highest rated offensive piece on the market. 

 

Personally I'm ok without Tanev as well...

However I'm open to moving marginal prospects and as many picks needed to land more legit offense. 

 

 

 

I’d rather see us trade for a big fish and if it means even moving heart and soul aging players like Gallagher and Weber, I would do it.  This is a unique year.  You have Calgary looking to change their core.  They are looking to add sandpaper to their lineup (Gallagher?). Edmonton has a disappointing playoffs and needed grit and character (Gallagher, Domi?).  Both want to upgrade their goaltending.  Winnipeg has rreally only has one quality Dman and needs to rebuild the D.  Phoenix and Florida are looking to cut salary.  On top of that you have a flat cap and a lot of teams up against the cap, it’s us having room if we play our cards right and consider the UFA/RFA’s we will need to resign in the next two years and there is a real opportunity.

 

i could see us getting an OEL and for picks, Drouin, a prospect and even adding Alzner, since his actual salary will go down in another year.

 

IMO the only players that should be untouchable on this team are KK, Suzuki, Romanov, Caufield, one of Petry/Weber - should move one of them.  
 

I’d even move Price if the return was really good.  It would have to be really good to happen. I had no problem with that habs moving Roy 15 years ago.  What I had a problem was that we didn’t get Sakic or Forsberg back, or two three players in the Kamensky, ozolinsh category.  I would have been okay with the deal Savard reportedly had worked out a year earlier with the Nordiquea that would have sent Nolan and two other players, but he reportedly backed out, not wanting to send Roy to a rival.

 

KK and Suzuki have finally got me excited about e habs, and I’m hopeful of Caufield. but we need to  Take advantage of the current situation and build a TBL type lineup.  I don’t want this odd mosh mash the rangers had of old and youth with holes in key positions and three years from now we are talking about another reset.

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8 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

One consideration is that Laine is a UFA next "July 1, 2021" (whenever that UFA date will end up being) ... so unless contract can be discussed before a trade he could prove to be a one year rental the risk factor is somewhat high.

Doesn’t he have one more bridge year? If not than yeah, if we are giving up a lot I’d want to sign him.  I’d be much more comfortable trading for him and signing him for Between $8 and o$9m for 8 years than I was the contract we gave to Drouin right after we traded for him.

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10 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I really wasnt counting the CAP as stated and the deals to both Tanev and Hall were the high water mark considering Tanev currently makes 4.5 and will get a raise and Hall is the highest rated offensive piece on the market. 

 

Personally I'm ok without Tanev as well...

However I'm open to moving marginal prospects and as many picks needed to land more legit offense. 

 

 

Not certain I would assume that any UFAs will get much of a raise this year given the flat cap situation, unless they are vastly underpaid for their production (e.g. Gallagher).

 

As for a trade for legit offence, assuming you mean a serious upgrade over all the top 6 wingers but Gallagher, marginal prospects are not going to drive a deal ... they are likley the 3rd and/or 4th elements in a multi-piece offer, and the other two elements may not be pieces most want to surrender ... My personal rule is that if you are getting back elite talent you have to legitimately feel like your team is giving up a fair bit too much.

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2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Doesn’t he have one more bridge year? If not than yeah, if we are giving up a lot I’d want to sign him.  I’d be much more comfortable trading for him and signing him for Between $8 and o$9m for 8 years than I was the contract we gave to Drouin right after we traded for him.

 

Yes he does ... didn't address that ... but I believe he will have arbitration rights so doubt the Habs get much of a deal if he performs as they hope next season ... and a one year deal isn't a great bridge (pun intended) to re-signing/extending him for 22/23 and beyond. 

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2 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Not certain I would assume that any UFAs will get much of a raise this year given the flat cap situation, unless they are vastly underpaid for their production (e.g. Gallagher).

 

As for a trade for legit offence, assuming you mean a serious upgrade over all the top 6 wingers but Gallagher, marginal prospects are not going to drive a deal ... they are likley the 3rd and/or 4th elements in a multi-piece offer, and the other two elements may not be pieces most want to surrender ... My personal rule is that if you are getting back elite talent you have to legitimately feel like your team is giving up a fair bit too much.

 Laine for

Domi signed 2x 5M

Poehling

Brook

2X 2020 2ND RD

2020 3RD RD 

2021 2ND RD

 

THATS AN OVERPAYMENT i believe and if roles where reversed I think MB makes that deal to replenish his team in a heartbeat.

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15 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Yes he does ... didn't address that ... but I believe he will have arbitration rights so doubt the Habs get much of a deal if he performs as they hope next season ... and a one year deal isn't a great bridge (pun intended) to re-signing/extending him for 22/23 and beyond. 

I’d just sign him long term as soon as you make the deal.  He showed this year he’s more than a one trick pony.

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6 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

 Laine for

Domi signed 2x 5M

Poehling

Brook

2X 2020 2ND RD

2020 3RD RD 

2021 2ND RD

 

THATS AN OVERPAYMENT i believe and if roles where reversed I think MB makes that deal to replenish his team in a heartbeat.

Not certain Jets would be trading Laine to replenish as much as to get a top 2-3 defenceman to replace the veterans they lost before last season (Byfuglien, Meyers, Trouba and, to a lesser degree, Chiarot)

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15 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

 Laine for

Domi signed 2x 5M

Poehling

Brook

2X 2020 2ND RD

2020 3RD RD 

2021 2ND RD

 

THATS AN OVERPAYMENT i believe and if roles where reversed I think MB makes that deal to replenish his team in a heartbeat.

I don’t think Winnipeg would make that deal.  They are in win LW with their offence and goaltending.  They need NHL ready top dmen and a prospect D like Brooke, with Domi and a bunch of 2nd rounders isn’t going to get a deal done.

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8 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

That’s a weak top 6 and why would we want Tanev at all, especially on bottom pairing.  Our RHD is not an issue. D isn’t really at all.

but Drouin on top line is a waste and to bank on Suzuki or KK being able to hold down top 6 centre responsibilities and production next year is a long shot.

that top 6 looks soft and unproductive.

i don’t see any really upgrades there given none of those acquisitions are sure fire producers so why bother blowing up the roster for Minimal net gain.

not to mention taking our current top line players and demoting them to third line, particularly given Danault’s comments I don’t think you can assume they still produce like one of the best 5v5 lines in hockey after that disrespect.

 

You wanna pay Tanev 6 mil/yr? And then put him on third pairing?

hall isn’t worth close to 9.5 either and he and Drouin in top 6 Wreaks of inconsistent effort and production.

To think that adding any 2 deals of 

Hall UFA 182pts/ 104 games

Laine trade 138pts / 232 games +100 goals

Or

Gaudreau trade 241pts/ 231 games

Dandanov UFA 182pts/ 225 games

*stats last 3 seasons

 

Would make our top 6 weaker is ridiculous.

All 4 would be huge additions to the line up

 

Your talking as if Tatar Danault Gallagher would get no TOI. They would still be together playing tough minutes and still one of the best lines 5on5. And byron and Lehks on the 4th line with Evans... Wow what a team!

4 balanced lines 

Here you go I rearranged the lines for u

Tatar Danault Gallagher

Drouin Suzuki Armia

Hall / Gaudreau  KK  Laine/ Dandanov

Byron Evans Lehkonan

 

And yes Im banking on Suzuki and KK to perform next year 100%... how can you not?

 

Is our RD good?

Personally I said let's give the kids a chance

Fleury, Brook or Juulsen on the RT and romanov mete on the LT

however, after petry and weber we are left with unproven natural right handed shots...

 

And not deep on the Right at all

Weber

Petry Pending UFA in 2021

FOLLIN

fleury

Juulsen* hasn't played in 2 years

Brook

Tanev makes 4.5 currently. What are we paying him to come to MTL?

 

Keep in mind this a trade Proposal thread!

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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

I’d just sign him long term as soon as you make the deal.  He showed this year he’s more than a one trick pony.

I would as well ... but unless MB just gives him BIG money despite the cap being flat for a couple of years (and unknown past that) it may not be easy ... it assumes he wants to extend with the Habs.

 

And a BIG contract sets high comparable for Gallagher, Tartar and KK next summer and Suzuki the year after ... KK and NS will be RFAs ... they won't match Laine's money by any means in those next contracts but the higher Patrik's deal the higher will be their target

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10 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t think Winnipeg would make that deal.  They are in win LW with their offence and goaltending.  They need NHL ready top dmen and a prospect D like Brooke, with Domi and a bunch of 2nd rounders isn’t going to get a deal done.

they are no longer in win now mode. They are depleted in both NHL and prospect depth

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9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Please do, it will help the discussion 

Spoiler alert

 

We cannot afford 2 of the 4 forwards mentioned and Tanev. At least not with Alzner on the books. And even then we would be right up to the cap.

 

Thats including

 -weise walk

- hudon walk

-Max traded 

- follin walk

-Lindgren waived

-weal waived

 

Adding

Belzile 700,000

Demchenko 792,000

Mete at 1.5M

ouelett  1M possibly waived after camp

 

That's 

62.3 Million 

 

So 19 million To add

 

Gaudreau 6.75  - 2 years to UFA

Dadonov ufa 4M current - project 6 million

 

Laine 6.75 - 1 year to RFA

Hall UFA  6M current project 8/9 million

 

Tanev  UFa 4.5 current- 5/6 million

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

I would as well ... but unless MB just gives him BIG money despite the cap being flat for a couple of years (and unknown past that) it may not be easy ... it assumes he wants to extend with the Habs.

 

And a BIG contract sets high comparable for Gallagher, Tartar and KK next summer and Suzuki the year after ... KK and NS will be RFAs ... they won't match Laine's money by any means in those next contracts but the higher Patrik's deal the higher will be their target

I think the elite players will still get $ and term.  Mid level and bottom liners are going to get squeezed on  $, term, or both.

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1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

they are no longer in win now mode. They are depleted in both NHL and prospect depth

If that’s the case they wouldn’t be trying to trade Laine and Ehlers, they’d be moving Wheeler and older players.

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59 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Spoiler alert

 

We cannot afford 2 of the 4 forwards mentioned and Tanev. At least not with Alzner on the books. And even then we would be right up to the cap.

 

Thats including

 -weise walk

- hudon walk

-Max traded 

- follin walk

-Lindgren waived

-weal waived

 

Adding

Belzile 700,000

Demchenko 792,000

Mete at 1.5M

ouelett  1M possibly waived after camp

 

That's 

62.3 Million 

 

So 19 million To add

 

Gaudreau 6.75  - 2 years to UFA

Dadonov ufa 4M current - project 6 million

 

Laine 6.75 - 1 year to RFA

Hall UFA  6M current project 8/9 million

 

Tanev  UFa 4.5 current- 5/6 million

 

 

 

 

I can’t see Hall signing with us.  It would be nice to get a free asset, not costing us any assets, but I just don’t see Hall signing with us.

 

i also would prefer someone better than Tanev.  I think at under $4m he’d be alright and he may actually be in that group who gets squeezed, so that might be possible.

 

i really think Domi and a good prospect and a High pick, or Domi-Danault may be enough For Gaudreau- that’s just from listening to the talking heads on the radio in Calgary - no one is expecting equal value, but at the same time they don’t want the type of deal that Edmonton made for Hall, nor do they think that Treiliving would make that type of deal.  Main thing is the team needs more sandpaper and speed.  I think they would do Gaudreau for Gallagher straight up - I’m not sure if I’d want to do that, because the big rumour For a while over here is that at the end if this deal, Gaudreau is going home to the tri-state area.

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2 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Spoiler alert

 

We cannot afford 2 of the 4 forwards mentioned and Tanev. At least not with Alzner on the books. And even then we would be right up to the cap.

 

Thats including

 -weise walk

- hudon walk

-Max traded 

- follin walk

-Lindgren waived

-weal waived

 

Adding

Belzile 700,000

Demchenko 792,000

Mete at 1.5M

ouelett  1M possibly waived after camp

 

That's 

62.3 Million 

 

So 19 million To add

 

Gaudreau 6.75  - 2 years to UFA

Dadonov ufa 4M current - project 6 million

 

Laine 6.75 - 1 year to RFA

Hall UFA  6M current project 8/9 million

 

Tanev  UFa 4.5 current- 5/6 million

 

 

 

 

I’ve spend a lot of time working on a spreadsheet trying to learn what you did there: trades, cap management , ufas and contract renegotiations.

Like you say, it is hard to build a cap team that can increase value/production at a manageable cost 

If the Habs can stop getting their first draft picks wrong and hit a couple of home runs like Gallagher... if only

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10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I can’t see Hall signing with us.  It would be nice to get a free asset, not costing us any assets, but I just don’t see Hall signing with us.

 

i also would prefer someone better than Tanev.  I think at under $4m he’d be alright and he may actually be in that group who gets squeezed, so that might be possible.

 

i really think Domi and a good prospect and a High pick, or Domi-Danault may be enough For Gaudreau- that’s just from listening to the talking heads on the radio in Calgary - no one is expecting equal value, but at the same time they don’t want the type of deal that Edmonton made for Hall, nor do they think that Treiliving would make that type of deal.  Main thing is the team needs more sandpaper and speed.  I think they would do Gaudreau for Gallagher straight up - I’m not sure if I’d want to do that, because the big rumour For a while over here is that at the end if this deal, Gaudreau is going home to the tri-state area.

again... just a proposal thread its September and training camp should be starting up soon LOL.

 

Personally though, I want them to ride out the defence and promote from within. WE do need to sign a big scorer. If we are moving out Domi then we need 2 players up front in the top 9 to take the next step to contention as well as to put the kids in a real position to succeed.

 

what I really see happening is one scorer coming in via UFA or trade (hopefully its a Laine, Dadonov, Hall  or Gaudreau, guys rumoured to be available) and MB most likely taking another cheap flyer on Kovalchuk signing to a reasonable 1 year deal.

 

 

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11 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

If the Habs can stop getting their first draft picks wrong and hit a couple of home runs like Gallagher... if only

 

Are we really doing so badly on the first round, in recent years at least? In the last five years ...

  • 2015: Juulsen at #26
  • 2016: Sergachev at #9
  • 2017: Poehling at #25
  • 2018: Kotkaniemi at #3
  • 2019: Caufield at #15

Yes, Juulsen has had a series of concussions, but you cannot predict that when picking. And Sergachev was traded, but a bad trade does not make it a bad draft pick.

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10 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

Are we really doing so badly on the first round, in recent years at least? .

Ya, but what about Kostitsyn pick!

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30 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

Are we really doing so badly on the first round, in recent years at least? In the last five years ...

  • 2015: Juulsen at #26
  • 2016: Sergachev at #9
  • 2017: Poehling at #25
  • 2018: Kotkaniemi at #3
  • 2019: Caufield at #15

Yes, Juulsen has had a series of concussions, but you cannot predict that when picking. And Sergachev was traded, but a bad trade does not make it a bad draft pick.

Last few years has been good based where they finished in the standing.

Jury is still out on Poehling and most agree that none of these is a game changer... for example, Sergachev is a stud and playing top minutes on a cup contending team; but he does not carry that team on his back.

Where a Weber, who is a second rounder, is an all start and top defender on the teams he has played in

 

I was talking about: Sherbak, McCarron, Galchenyuk that right now should for the core and were three straight busts.

 

One dud every once in a while, its ok but a bunch in a row is not.

 

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