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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:


haha love that.

so many posters make bold statements without even consulting the facts.

Eberle would get run out of Mtl by disappearing for chunks of the year.

 

 

 

Read the full post, disappeared during th last half of his final year along with playoffs and than was dumped by Chiarelli the same way that Hall was - for the same lousy return.  He has a much bigger role with the NYI than he had with the McDavid oilers.

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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:


Haha ignoring stats is so convenient.

classic post where Price kicking ass is nothing, but a group a d are the be all end all?
Price has amazing playoff gaa this year, but it isn’t due the amazing d played by the top 4? 
 

Habs d is solid, goaltending Is world class.

 

the lack of scoring is what kills this team.  
 

Dadanov is a good idea.

 

So the habs don’t need more offense from the D in the PP? We’ve got the perfect  quarterback on the D, must have missed him given all the goals we score on the PP🙄

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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:


price was not the leader in shutouts this season, he started as many games as Helybuck and had fewer shutouts, also few than Rask, Merlizkins, Fleury...

hes a stud, but not winning games just by pitching shutouts, or lowering team gaa that way either.

your point is based on false information.

he also played way more games that all of those goalies other than helybuck.

backup goalie solution will help The whole team this year.
goalie, d are not the problem.

scoring goals is.

 

Price had a very mediocre year, but as a stud in the playoffs, which is what o was referring to.  As far as our D. It was great for a bubble team that would have missed the playoffs without COVID.

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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:


You obviously don’t watch many Caroline, Columbus games.

or any of this teams you are raving about.

Knights?

c’mon you’re just hating on the Habs here cause you’re complaints are not based in fact.

 

All those teams finished ahead of us in the standings. Vegas far above us. Canes D is better than hours - their offense Aho-Svegnikov, teurovanin are better than ours (may change with emergence of KK and Suzuki).  I’d take Jones - Werenski over Weber-Petry and their top 4 over ours.

 

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Allow me to intervene in this argument between Habs29 and hockeyrealist as follows:

 

  • Montreal was 19th overall in GAA for the 2019-20 season. That suggests a mediocre back end for sure.
  •  
  • Montreal was also 1st overall in GAA for the 2019-20 playoffs. That suggests an elite back end for sure.

 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/team/_/stat/scoring/sort/avgGoalsAgainst/seasontype/2/order/false

 

What explains this wild contradiction?

 

  1. The most obvious independent variable is Carey Price. If Price shows up in Beast Mode, the Habs suddenly become elite defensively. (And unlike other guys such as Hart, we know from extensive experience that Price's excellence is never a "product" of the D in front of him. He is the difference-maker). That tends to support Habs29's view that our "elite team D" really boils down to one man being superhuman.
  2. There's another thought, though, which is that we have the kind of defencemen who can raise their games for limited stretches and become really hard to play against. Remember "The Trident?" No one was talking that way during the regular season. What happened was that old war-horses, in particular Weber and Chiarot, got some rest from the long stoppage and came back strong; their decidely average mobility is rewarded when the refs stop calling interference in the playoffs; and - maybe this is the real key - they are able to bring their physically punishing A-game night after night because they know it's only going to be a finite battle. They do better in a sprint than a marathon, in other words.
  3. The restoration of Kulak was also significant. Suddenly we had a decent second-tier rushing defenceman who could play meaningful minutes. It wasn't all Petry.

 

If the above is correct, then what can we expect for 2020-21?

 

  1. The addition of Jake Allen - assuming that he is used properly - should increase the odds of a rested Price not crapping out. That alone should make a significant bump in our team defensive numbers, moving us, say, from 19th overall to perhaps low teens.
  2. The addition of Edmondsun may help to spell off Chiarot a bit. But I simply don't believe that Weber and Chiarot can play with that level of intensity over 82 games. Weber will be yet another year older to boot. So I'm not expecting the "Trident" or any equivalent to be a thing all season. Trident members will be what they were last regular season.
  3. Between a resurgent Kulak and Romanov, we should be able to meaningfully improve in the puck-moving, offence-from-the-back-end dimension.

 

All things considered, then, I would not be surprised if the Habs turn in a better-than-league-average team D performance next season. We will be better than 19th overall; maybe we'll even flirt with the top-10. Calling the Habs' D "elite" (as hockeyrealist wants to do) seems a stretch, however: an unduly optimistic reading based on a ridiculously small sample-size of 10 play-in/off games.

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7 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Is Romanov a rushing skating dman?  I haven’t read that?  If he turns out that way great, but I’d like players who are projected to be like Maker, Hughes, Niskanan, do we have anyone like that?

he seemed pretty mobile and smart in world juniors and game highlights, not as fast as Mete but also not a Doug Murray. :popcorn:

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4 hours ago, DON said:

he seemed pretty mobile and smart in world juniors and game highlights, not as fast as Mete but also not a Doug Murray. :popcorn:

He played great and his numbers look good at the WJC, but not in the KHL.  Not sure how to translate production of an 18-20 year old dman in Russia.  Young players remaining home 

other countries typically have higher production.  Just wondering what to expect against men and where he would be in his progression against higher competition.

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10 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Allow me to intervene in this argument between Habs29 and hockeyrealist as follows:

 

  • Montreal was 19th overall in GAA for the 2019-20 season. That suggests a mediocre back end for sure.
  •  
  • Montreal was also 1st overall in GAA for the 2019-20 playoffs. That suggests an elite back end for sure.

 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/team/_/stat/scoring/sort/avgGoalsAgainst/seasontype/2/order/false

 

What explains this wild contradiction?

 

  1. The most obvious independent variable is Carey Price. If Price shows up in Beast Mode, the Habs suddenly become elite defensively. (And unlike other guys such as Hart, we know from extensive experience that Price's excellence is never a "product" of the D in front of him. He is the difference-maker). That tends to support Habs29's view that our "elite team D" really boils down to one man being superhuman.
  2. There's another thought, though, which is that we have the kind of defencemen who can raise their games for limited stretches and become really hard to play against. Remember "The Trident?" No one was talking that way during the regular season. What happened was that old war-horses, in particular Weber and Chiarot, got some rest from the long stoppage and came back strong; their decidely average mobility is rewarded when the refs stop calling interference in the playoffs; and - maybe this is the real key - they are able to bring their physically punishing A-game night after night because they know it's only going to be a finite battle. They do better in a sprint than a marathon, in other words.
  3. The restoration of Kulak was also significant. Suddenly we had a decent second-tier rushing defenceman who could play meaningful minutes. It wasn't all Petry.

 

If the above is correct, then what can we expect for 2020-21?

 

  1. The addition of Jake Allen - assuming that he is used properly - should increase the odds of a rested Price not crapping out. That alone should make a significant bump in our team defensive numbers, moving us, say, from 19th overall to perhaps low teens.
  2. The addition of Edmondsun may help to spell off Chiarot a bit. But I simply don't believe that Weber and Chiarot can play with that level of intensity over 82 games. Weber will be yet another year older to boot. So I'm not expecting the "Trident" or any equivalent to be a thing all season. Trident members will be what they were last regular season.
  3. Between a resurgent Kulak and Romanov, we should be able to meaningfully improve in the puck-moving, offence-from-the-back-end dimension.

 

All things considered, then, I would not be surprised if the Habs turn in a better-than-league-average team D performance next season. We will be better than 19th overall; maybe we'll even flirt with the top-10. Calling the Habs' D "elite" (as hockeyrealist wants to do) seems a stretch, however: an unduly optimistic reading based on a ridiculously small sample-size of 10 play-in/off games.

I get that having a better backup will help Price stay sharp and rested and hopefully ready for the playoffs. Not sure how Allen will do behind our D vs the Blues who had Boewmeester on the 2nd and at times the bottom pairing.


I’m not sure what to expect from the D. I almost choked the first time I heard Weber-Petry-chariot referred to as the big three - before it was changed to the trident.  I don’t consider any of them to be as good as any of the real big 3 of the 70’s.  It was insulting to even refer to them as the big 3 (Weber is really the only truly elite dman from his generation, but he isn’t the 2008 or 2009 Weber - and the game was also played much differently - he’s more the 1988-89 Robinson).  I don’t see anyone on our blue line that I could say could totally take over a game.  Maybe Romanov or norlinder become that guy in 2-4 years.  
 

if we look at the last run of cup winners, they all had that dominating guy in the 25-28 age group, or under 30.  I don’t see that with us. And Weber and Petry aren’t getting any younger.  We e need that D who can QB a PP and be that puck moving speedster.

 

no doubt we need an elite winger who can score, but I don’t see this group of dmen as one that I would associate with a serious contender - unless Romanov is that guy.

 

Weber would be awesome with someone like maker or Hughes or jones. Chariot doesn’t seem like a top pairing dman and Edmondson IMO is another depth dman - not one that is going to transform the D to elite status.

 

Even this year, both Dallas and TBL show the value of having a D that can take over the game and be that QB.  IMO having that type of dman is as important as having a dominant centre.

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17 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Is Romanov a rushing skating dman?  I haven’t read that?  If he turns out that way great, but I’d like players who are projected to be like Maker (4th pick), Hughes (7th pick), Niskanan (3rd), do we have anyone like that?

They opted for kotkaniemi instead of a Hughes and dont recall anyone calling to pick Hughes at 3 (canucks looked to of got a good one though); Makar went top of draft and Habs picked 25 Poehling is partly why.

Dont think are any like that at 16 this year and seems like Habs wont be horrible next season picking in top 5 or 10, so unlikely to find one then.

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5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He played great and his numbers look good at the WJC, but not in the KHL.  Not sure how to translate production of an 18-20 year old dman in Russia.  Young players remaining home 

other countries typically have higher production.  Just wondering what to expect against men and where he would be in his progression against higher competition.

I doubt he will be difference maker this year and we shouldnt expect too much from him. 

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6 hours ago, DON said:

They opted for kotkaniemi instead of a Hughes and dont recall anyone calling to pick Hughes at 3 (canucks looked to of got a good one though); Makar went top of draft and Habs picked 25 Poehling is partly why.

Dont think are any like that at 16 this year and seems like Habs wont be horrible next season picking in top 5 or 10, so unlikely to find one then.


Commandant wanted Hughes.

 

Smart boy, that Commandant!

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29 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Smart boy, that Commandant!

Dont stoke his ego too much!:devil:

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Dont stoke his ego too much!:devil:

 

We've been in a pandemic and locked inside for 6 months... it won't take much stroking.

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4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:


Commandant wanted Hughes.

 

Smart boy, that Commandant!

No disrespect to Commandant, but I believe it's too early to tell (KK vs Hughes)

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54 minutes ago, Blazer said:

No disrespect to Commandant, but I believe it's too early to tell (KK vs Hughes)

I think they’ll both be great players (along with tkachuk), problem is we needed both the centre (since forever) and Hughes is exactly the type of dman you need in today’s game.

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think they’ll both be great players (along with tkachuk), problem is we needed both the centre (since forever) and Hughes is exactly the type of dman you need in today’s game.

Like the darn Sens will do this year with picks 3 and 5, they should get two solid players.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Like the darn Sens will do this year with picks 3 and 5, they should get two solid players.

 

At this rate, they'll be a real threat to the Sabres.

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10 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

At this rate, they'll be a real threat to the Sabres.

?

Not sure, they will suck; but, adding a Byfield and maybe a Perfetti, will for sure help down the road.

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think they’ll both be great players (along with tkachuk), problem is we needed both the centre (since forever) and Hughes is exactly the type of dman you need in today’s game.

I have a theory, and I'm probably galaxy-braining it too much, but I don't think we get Suzuki in the deal with Vegas without drafting Kotkaniemi first. 

 

If we don't already have Kotkaniemi in the system, do you think the Pacioretty deal goes down as is? Or does the Vegas GM look at the lack of centre depth in the Habs organization and think, "If he wants Suzuki I gotta try to squeeze more out of this deal."

 

I know, my brain is incredibly wrinkled and the size of a house, but I honestly think Kotkaniemi was the right choice even if he doesn't end up as the better player of those drafted after him. 

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21 minutes ago, DON said:

?

Not sure, they will suck; but, adding a Byfield and maybe a Perfetti, will for sure help down the road.

 

It certainly should. But they are as badly managed as the Sabres.

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15 hours ago, Trizzak said:

I have a theory, and I'm probably galaxy-braining it too much, but I don't think we get Suzuki in the deal with Vegas without drafting Kotkaniemi first. 

 

If we don't already have Kotkaniemi in the system, do you think the Pacioretty deal goes down as is? Or does the Vegas GM look at the lack of centre depth in the Habs organization and think, "If he wants Suzuki I gotta try to squeeze more out of this deal."

 

I know, my brain is incredibly wrinkled and the size of a house, but I honestly think Kotkaniemi was the right choice even if he doesn't end up as the better player of those drafted after him. 

 

You probably are overthinking it.

 

Vegas wanted Patches and got him. MB rightly insisted on Suzuki. It's a classic example of a good trade for both teams: VGK, a contending team and consequently all-in, got an elite scoring winger who has been a key driver for them, and the Habs, bottom feeding garb age in desperate need of top prospects, got an exciting young C.

 

Other teams would have been in on Patches, so MB was well-positioned to get a return of that kind.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

... MB rightly insisted on Suzuki ...

 

It was (IMO) a perfect example of a "good for both teams" trade ... but it was widely reported at the time that MB's target was Cody Glass (6th overall in 2016 versus Nick at 13th) ... worked out GREAT for the Habs that VGKs were stubborn about retaining their first ever draft pick.

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3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

You probably are overthinking it.

tumblr_o16n2kBlpX1ta3qyvo1_1280.jpg

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20 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

It was (IMO) a perfect example of a "good for both teams" trade ... but it was widely reported at the time that MB's target was Cody Glass (6th overall in 2016 versus Nick at 13th) ... worked out GREAT for the Habs that VGKs were stubborn about retaining their first ever draft pick.

 

You keep making this claim that MB wanted Glass... but i still havent seen a link for it.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

You keep making this claim that MB wanted Glass... but i still havent seen a link for it.

I almost posted a similar observation 

 

Link please

via GIFER

 

<iframe src="https://gifer.com/embed/9sMS" width=480 height=270.000 frameBorder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://gifer.com">via GIFER</a></p>

22 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

It was (IMO) a perfect example of a "good for both teams" trade ... but it was widely reported at the time that MB's target was Cody Glass (6th overall in 2016 versus Nick at 13th) ... worked out GREAT for the Habs that VGKs were stubborn about retaining their first ever draft pick.

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