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Permanent Trade Proposal Thread


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2 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

This is a trade proposal thread, so how about one out of nowhere without any basis, I’m not even sure it’s it would be legal.

 

Habs find out what team Pietrangelo or Hall wants to play for, sign one for 2-3 years at $8-$8.5mil and trade them to that team while retaining salary?  

 

For instance, sign Pietrangelo 2 years at $8mil, trade him to Winnipeg for Laine, while retaining $1.25mil of his salary to make the salaries even.  Winnipeg has some cap space, but players to sign.

 

I do see all types of issues with contract length for Pietrangelo, but in theory is that even legal under the CBA?  

 

Even if legal, can't see any player going along with it ... and elite players are all going to ask for NMC in a short contract ... if for no other reason than to avoid being exposed in the expansion draft ... 

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55 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Even if legal, can't see any player going along with it ... and elite players are all going to ask for NMC in a short contract ... if for no other reason than to avoid being exposed in the expansion draft ... 

I don’t see how a NMC would interfere with this at all.  Only a full no-trade clause would, but you can’t offer full no trade clauses to free agents, only resigning on the current team like the 8-year contract rule.  I could also be wrong about this, but I’m fairly confident.

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50 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

I don’t see how a NMC would interfere with this at all.  Only a full no-trade clause would, but you can’t offer full no trade clauses to free agents, only resigning on the current team like the 8-year contract rule.  I could also be wrong about this, but I’m fairly confident.

May be wrong about the NMC/NTC ... but is a player going to sign knowing they may be traded ... don't think a contract can include a "trade me" clause ... and even if it did then what leverage do the Habs have when trying to make the trade: 

 

You sold me, I really want to play for XXX but I'll sign a binding contract with Montreal trusting that they will be able to trade me to XXX and in doing so strip away assets from that team, making it less likely that I win with my new team ... but I'll earn $1.25M more for a couple of seasons

 

and if the Habs "legally" trade a newly signed UFA without such a deal why would any UFA sign with the habs in the future 

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What would be the value of trading Hab's unprotected 2021 1st rounder as part of package?  I'm not that high on next year's draft.  Even if the Habs miss the playoffs and win 1st overall (which I doubt happens), I don't think that player would rank in the top 5 of this year's draft (maybe not even top 10).  Habs need a scoring winger with some size and/or a true top pair LD.  I would think dangling that as part of package could land the team something pretty good. 

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14 hours ago, GHT120 said:

May be wrong about the NMC/NTC ... but is a player going to sign knowing they may be traded ... don't think a contract can include a "trade me" clause ... and even if it did then what leverage do the Habs have when trying to make the trade: 

 

You sold me, I really want to play for XXX but I'll sign a binding contract with Montreal trusting that they will be able to trade me to XXX and in doing so strip away assets from that team, making it less likely that I win with my new team ... but I'll earn $1.25M more for a couple of seasons

 

and if the Habs "legally" trade a newly signed UFA without such a deal why would any UFA sign with the habs in the future 

The whole premise of the idea is a pre-arranged trade with the UFA and team they are going to.  So the player already is aware of what team they are going to.  Like the expansion draft trades where teams give up assets so the drafting team

selects a specific player.

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1 minute ago, TurdBurglar said:

The whole premise of the idea is a pre-arranged trade with the UFA and team they are going to.  So the player already is aware of what team they are going to.  Like the expansion draft trades where teams give up assets so the drafting team

selects a specific player.

THAT I would suspect is not allowed ... it reeks of potential for collusion on salary ... and even if allowed, as a GM, for want of $1.25 million, I would prefer to just trade a 1.5-$2M player for a bag of picks and two sticks than make a complex arrangement that strips substantial assets in order to make the deal.

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Fun fact about Mantha.

 

My cousin (he's 30yo right now) grew up in Longueuil (Montréal suburbs) in the same block to where Anthony Mantha lived.

 

My cousin and his friends were playing street hockey all the time and were frequently joined by Anthony Mantha  who was at least 3 years younger.

 

He says that whenever the Young Mantha would play with them, even though he was like 8 yo and the other boys were like 11-12yo, he would DOMINATE them.

The kids were a bit humiliated because he was so much younger than the rest  (at this age, the difference between 8 and 11 quite important),  but they realized a few years later that Mantha was now playing some very high level hockey (Midget AAA and such) whenever they would see him in the streets wearing team's gear.

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On 9/29/2020 at 4:32 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

We are not getting Laine unless one of two offers are made.  The first would have to be an offer that addresses Winnipeg’s need on D (...)

 

The funny thing is that there are rumours that the Flyers are interested in Laine. And they surely don't have top-line defencemen to spare. But of course it's just a rumour.

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5 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

The funny thing is that there are rumours that the Flyers are interested in Laine. And they surely don't have top-line defencemen to spare. But of course it's just a rumour.

 

Of course being interested and having what it takes can be two different things ... although ... I wonder whether Niskanen's retirement plans might change if he was dealt to Winnipeg ... He is from Minnesota and Manitoba's Covid infection rate is about a tenth that of Pennsylvania

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21 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

The funny thing is that there are rumours that the Flyers are interested in Laine. And they surely don't have top-line defencemen to spare. But of course it's just a rumour.

Top line no,  but  Gost maybe.

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I spent some time looking at some potential trades, and this is one that may make sense:

To Montreal: Tyler Johnson ($5Mx4 years) and Mathieu Joseph (RFA)

To Tampa Bay: Paul Byron ($3.4M x3 years) and a 2021 Fourth Round pick.

 

Tampa gets $1.6 M in cap room and a shorter contract

Montreal gets an experienced player that can fit anywhere on the top nine, and a "local" prospect that projects as a good third line winger.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I spent some time looking at some potential trades, and this is one that may make sense:

To Montreal: Tyler Johnson ($5Mx4 years) and Mathieu Joseph (RFA)

To Tampa Bay: Paul Byron ($3.4M x3 years) and a 2021 Fourth Round pick.

 

Tampa gets $1.6 M in cap room and a shorter contract

Montreal gets an experienced player that can fit anywhere on the top nine, and a "local" prospect that projects as a good third line winger.

 

I've thought of something similar to that (including Joseph) but the thing that keeps coming back to me is this - if Tampa does this, then they don't really save much of anything.  They'll still have to move a high-priced player or two out which just further takes away from their roster.  Rather than do three or four trades like this to get the room, would they be better off just dumping two with a sweetener and not taking money back?  They won't want Byron who is signed for the three years as you note which takes away from their ability to try to sign one of Sergachev or Cirelli long term and extend Point not long after that.

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1 minute ago, dlbalr said:

 

I've thought of something similar to that (including Joseph) but the thing that keeps coming back to me is this - if Tampa does this, then they don't really save much of anything.  They'll still have to move a high-priced player or two out which just further takes away from their roster.  Rather than do three or four trades like this to get the room, would they be better off just dumping two with a sweetener and not taking money back?  They won't want Byron who is signed for the three years as you note which takes away from their ability to try to sign one of Sergachev or Cirelli long term and extend Point not long after that.

 

I had not thought of the unsigned RFAs.

 

Back to the drawing board :)

 

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4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I spent some time looking at some potential trades, and this is one that may make sense:

To Montreal: Tyler Johnson ($5Mx4 years) and Mathieu Joseph (RFA)

To Tampa Bay: Paul Byron ($3.4M x3 years) and a 2021 Fourth Round pick.

 

Tampa gets $1.6 M in cap room and a shorter contract

Montreal gets an experienced player that can fit anywhere on the top nine, and a "local" prospect that projects as a good third line winger.

Interesting ... but I'm just not sold on Johnson ... my fear is that he is a product of TBL ... also, think his two 29 goals seasons are outliers ... even with TBL, outside those years his production is 20g/82gm

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Here is a trade that may be more plausible, since Toronto only had Mikheyev and Dermot to sign:

To Montreal: Ilya Mikheyev

To Toronto: Lukas Vejdemo and Gustav Olofson

 

Toronto gets rid of an RFA and enough cap space to sign Dermot, they also get two players that can be kept in the minors but that can be called up if there are injuries

Montreal gets a good third-line winger

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4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Interesting ... but I'm just not sold on Johnson ... my fear is that he is a product of TBL ... also, think his two 29 goals seasons are outliers ... even with TBL, outside those years his production is 20g/82gm

 

He is a more expensive version of Byron, but (I think) less prone to injuries

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2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

He is a more expensive version of Byron, but (I think) less prone to injuries

Good analogy ... but neither am I sold on Byron as a top 9 forward if Habs want to be more then fighting for a wildcard

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Ok, here is an updated trade proposal with TBL:

To Montreal Alex Killorn (waiving NTC destination list, 3x $4.5M) and Mathieu Joseph

To Tampa Bay: Victor Mete and Joni Ikonen

 

Tampa Bay gets a bump in Cap space to sign Sergachev and two cheap contracts for some depth prospects, Ikonen has some top 6 potential and Mete is an NHL D

Montreal gets a solid top 9 LW that can move up the lineup. This trade would turn the Habs into a cup contender if KK and Suzuki continue progressing.

 

1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

I've thought of something similar to that (including Joseph) but the thing that keeps coming back to me is this - if Tampa does this, then they don't really save much of anything.  They'll still have to move a high-priced player or two out which just further takes away from their roster.  Rather than do three or four trades like this to get the room, would they be better off just dumping two with a sweetener and not taking money back?  They won't want Byron who is signed for the three years as you note which takes away from their ability to try to sign one of Sergachev or Cirelli long term and extend Point not long after that.

 

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Interesting ... but I'm just not sold on Johnson ... my fear is that he is a product of TBL ... also, think his two 29 goals seasons are outliers ... even with TBL, outside those years his production is 20g/82gm

 

Edited by alfredoh2009
added NTC list
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2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Ok, here is an updated trade proposal with TBL:

To Montreal Alex Killorn (3x $4.5M) and Mathieu Joseph

To Tampa Bay: Victor Mete and Joni Ikonen

 

Tampa Bay gets a bump in Cap space to sign Sergachev and two cheap contracts for some depth prospects, Ikonen has some top 6 potential and Mete is an NHL D

Montreal gets a solid top 9 LW that can move up the lineup. This trade would turn the Habs into a cup contender if KK and Suzuki continue progressing.

Not to be Negative Ned ... but Kilhorn impresses me even less ... career year at 30 in his 8th season ... before that a 16-17g/83gm player ... and no guarantee that either waices their NTC for Montreal

 

Point is the only one of TBL's "trade-able" players that interests me ... and can't see him going anywhere after he led the team oin goals (2nd in points) while winning the Cup

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One last trade proposal:

To Montreal Mathieu Perreault ($4.1M x1) and Nelson Nogier (RFA)

To Winnipeg: Paul Byron (3.4M x2) Jordan Weal ($1.4M x1)  and Gustav Olofson

 

Winnipeg gets cap space to sign Roslovic whoever and a depth LD with NHL experience

Montreal gets a bottom 6 winger and a depth RD

Edited by alfredoh2009
chenged based on dlbalr's feedback
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41 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Here is a trade that may be more plausible, since Toronto only had Mikheyev and Dermot to sign:

To Montreal: Ilya Mikheyev

To Toronto: Lukas Vejdemo and Gustav Olofson

 

Toronto gets rid of an RFA and enough cap space to sign Dermot, they also get two players that can be kept in the minors but that can be called up if there are injuries

Montreal gets a good third-line winger

 

Toronto might be able to get both of them signed and stay under the cap as Sandin will now likely start in the minors so he'd come off the books when Dermott signs what'll likely be a one-year deal.  The concept is interesting but if they're willing to be tight to the Upper Limit all year, they can make it work.  I do think they'll try to move Pierre Engvall though but he wouldn't be more than another fourth liner.

 

9 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

One last trade proposal:

To Montreal Mathieu Perreault ($4.1M x1) and Nelson Nogier (RFA)

To Winnipeg: Paul Byron (3.4M x2) and Gustav Olofson

 

Winnipeg gets cap space to sign Roslovic and a depth LD with NHL experience

Montreal gets a bottom 6 winger and a depth RD

 

Roslovic has asked for a trade and it sounds like they are going to try to oblige that.  With Byron having three years left, that's minimal cap savings for this season and they take on two extra years after that.

 

Byron is a good player but his trade value is likely negative right now.  If Jesper Fast can only land three years at $2M per in a weak depth forward market, Byron at $1.4M more isn't going to excite anyone.

 

If you want Perreault and the Habs strike out in free agency, send them Weal.  That's enough cap savings to make it worth their while and Perreault would be an upgrade.  I'd like to see how Bergevin fares in free agency first, however.

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22 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Not to be Negative Ned ... but Kilhorn impresses me even less ... career year at 30 in his 8th season ... before that a 16-17g/83gm player ... and no guarantee that either waices their NTC for Montreal

 

Point is the only one of TBL's "trade-able" players that interests me ... and can't see him going anywhere after he led the team oin goals (2nd in points) while winning the Cup

 

I think Point is a core TBL player.

 

Killorn is tradable by TBL and would fit well in the Habs lineup. I can picture this lineup:

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Killorn-Kotkaniemi-Armia

 

Lehkonen-Evans-Byron/Weal

                   or

Lehkonen-Evans-Perrault/Byron

 

That would give the Habs three scoring lines and an expensive 4th that can provide secondary scoring

 

Edited by alfredoh2009
changin Weal for Byron based on feedback
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2 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Toronto might be able to get both of them signed and stay under the cap as Sandin will now likely start in the minors so he'd come off the books when Dermott signs what'll likely be a one-year deal.  The concept is interesting but if they're willing to be tight to the Upper Limit all year, they can make it work.  I do think they'll try to move Pierre Engvall though but he wouldn't be more than another fourth liner.

 

 

Roslovic has asked for a trade and it sounds like they are going to try to oblige that.  With Byron having three years left, that's minimal cap savings for this season and they take on two extra years after that.

 

Byron is a good player but his trade value is likely negative right now.  If Jesper Fast can only land three years at $2M per in a weak depth forward market, Byron at $1.4M more isn't going to excite anyone.

 

If you want Perreault and the Habs strike out in free agency, send them Weal.  That's enough cap savings to make it worth their while and Perreault would be an upgrade.  I'd like to see how Bergevin fares in free agency first, however.

 

That's a good point on Perrault for Weal instead of Byron. Thanks!

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4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

I think Point is a core TBL player.

 

Killorn is tradable by TBL and would fit well in the Habs lineup. I can picture this lineup:

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Killorn-Kotkaniemi-Armia

 

Lehkonen-Evans-Byron/Weal

                   or

Lehkonen-Evans-Perrault/Weal

 

That would give the Habs three scoring lines and an expensive 4th that can provide secondary scoring

 

I agree Point is a core player, which is why I said I can't see him going anywhere ... and by trade-able I meant without having to get the player to agree to the trade (i.e., no NMC, or NTC of any sort) ... so while Kilhorn is trade-able in terms of TBL's willingness to do so, he is not trade-able without his agreement

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2 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I agree Point is a core player, which is why I said I can't see him going anywhere ... and by trade-able I meant without having to get the player to agree to the trade (i.e., no NMC, or NTC of any sort) ... so while Kilhorn is trade-able in terms of TBL's willingness to do so, he is not trade-able without his agreement

 

I'll add that it is dependant on Killorn waiving his NTC, but that would be my trade proposal

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