Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[hab29RETIRED]

The point I was making that even though I'd like to unload both Gionta and Kaberle, and TB was willing to take them in exchange for Vinny, there is no way I'd make that deal. I would not want vinny and his horrible contract unless TB was willing to eat at least half of his cap hit.

If anyone other then Boston or Toronto in our division or future conference were to offer a #1 or even a #2 pick and a prosoect for Gionta, or a number #3 for Kaberle I'd move them.

If we could get Gionta to wave his no trade, I really think we'd be able to move him to Edmonton in a package for Paajarvi.

Just responding to getting rid of Giontas and Kaberles contract. That when of not trading in your own division has been debunked many times. Even shifting back to a divisional playoff format you have six other teams to best,rather than focusing on one team that you trade with. Quite frankly, if I can put my team in a better spot, i do it regardless.

[JoeLassister]

The point I was making that even though I'd like to unload both Gionta and Kaberle, and TB was willing to take them in exchange for Vinny, there is no way I'd make that deal. I would not want vinny and his horrible contract unless TB was willing to eat at least half of his cap hit.

If anyone other then Boston or Toronto in our division or future conference were to offer a #1 or even a #2 pick and a prosoect for Gionta, or a number #3 for Kaberle I'd move them.

If we could get Gionta to wave his no trade, I really think we'd be able to move him to Edmonton in a package for Paajarvi.

This is not about Gionta waiving his NTC and then trade him to Edmonton. It's about him wanting to waive his NTC to go to Edmonton.

If I were Gionta, I would not do it. They will most likely miss the playoffs (again).

[hab29RETIRED]

I agree, he probably wouldn't want to go, but it doesn't hurt to try. That is something I'd even propose at the end of the year.

This is not about Gionta waiving his NTC and then trade him to Edmonton. It's about him wanting to waive his NTC to go to Edmonton.

If I were Gionta, I would not do it. They will most likely miss the playoffs (again).

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Just responding to getting rid of Giontas and Kaberles contract. That wisdom of not trading in your own division has been debunked many times. Even shifting back to a divisional playoff format you have six other teams to best,rather than focusing on one team that you trade with. Quite frankly, if I can put my team in a better spot, i do it regardless.

Montreal is in a really good financial situation right now. There's no need to trade Gionta. Especially not for some terrible salary dump. Gionta is tied for third in goals for the team so it isn't like he's useless. I know people want to rush in big bodies to the top nine but Gionta is either a trade deadline move next season or we'll just let him walk because the team will be in a playoff position. No sense moving our captain. We have money.

Also, the only way I'm moving a Canadiens captain to Toronto is if it's a Toronto/Quebec situation where I'm getting a Mats Sundin back by giving up a Wendel Clark.

[hab29RETIRED]

For me it's about replacing with a bigger, more skilled player, so ther is more size in the top 6 - if either DD, gally Jr or Gionta play together, or top 9.

Gionta also has clearly lost a step and isn't as consistent in his effectiveness (you need to look beyond the stats), although the effort is still there.

Montreal is in a really good financial situation right now. There's no need to trade Gionta. Especially not for some terrible salary dump. Gionta is tied for third in goals for the team so it isn't like he's useless. I know people want to rush in big bodies to the top nine but Gionta is either a trade deadline move next season or we'll just let him walk because the team will be in a playoff position. No sense moving our captain. We have money.

Also, the only way I'm moving a Canadiens captain to Toronto is if it's a Toronto/Quebec situation where I'm getting a Mats Sundin back by giving up a Wendel Clark.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

For me it's about replacing with a bigger, more skilled player, so ther is more size in the top 6 - if either DD, gally Jr or Gionta play together, or top 9.

Gionta also has clearly lost a step and isn't as consistent in his effectiveness (you need to look beyond the stats), although the effort is still there.

So you add "bigger more skilled" in what's currently available like Ryane Clowe and realize that we haven't listened to a word from Sharks fans who say he's been terrible all year and just wasted picks.

We need to be patient with this team. We don't know what effect Gionta has on the locker room. We move him, team might lose their chemistry and we won't look like 1st in the East anymore despite being "bigger". There isn't a single guy on the availability market better than Gionta that works harder unless Corey Perry becomes available. He's on a team just as good as us at the moment so I doubt he is.

Things are working. No sense breaking the team.

[BlueKross]

Things are working. No sense breaking the team.

AGREED/ WE DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE A MOVE.

[JGC21]

How about Gionta for Perry?

Okay, okay... Let's throw in Kaberle. Or Weber.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

How about Gionta for Perry?

Okay, okay... Let's throw in Kaberle. Or Weber.

If you want Anaheim to trade Perry, they are not going to take the players you don't want on Montreal. Tired of seeing these proposals, serious or not.

[TurdBurglar]

Perry isn't worth trading for. Right now the price would be too high for a rental. TSN reporting Perry is looking for a 10m-11m deal. We won't sign Perry for that price and he's not even close to worth it. Perry is a 7.5m player at best and Anaheim ruined the market by signing Getzlaf to 8.5m. No team in their right mind will sign Perry for 10m for 7 year, which is what he wants, when the cap is going down by 10m over 2 seasons. That is a Glen Sather move.

To put it in perspective Perry's best season was 50g 98 pts. His average is 26.5G 29.9A for 56.4 pts a season. Malkin is averaging 78.6 pts a season and is being paid 8.7m. Crosby is averaging 81 pts a season getting 8.7m. In what world is Perry worth more than either of those 2 players?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I don't buy TSN's numbers. I think their brains are still in pre new CBA mode.

Anaheim can afford two big contracts. They have a very old club with some decent bargains throughout. Once Selanne and Koivu retire they'll need a guy like Getzlaf and possibly Perry to attract people to fill those spots in. This strong season is a good sell to them.

[BlueKross]

If you want Anaheim to trade Perry, they are not going to take the players you don't want on Montreal. Tired of seeing these proposals, serious or not.

That's why I chirped in about Gionta to Toronto- I wanted to see one proposal on here that a chance beyond a snowball in hell, even if I had to write it myself.

[illWill]

I wouldnt give more than a 2nd for Jagr.

Not for the Habs, sure it's great to bolster your lineup before the playoffs but the Habs are a long shot at the cup and why move an asset for a month or two from a player this season?

How are the Habs a long shot to win the cup? They are first in the conference halfway through the season and are playing as well as anybody. They have one of the best goaltenders in the world and we all know what a hot goalie can do in the playoffs. As long as this team stays healthy, there is no reason to think that they cannot make some noise in the spring. Adding a solid veteran player at the deadline would absolutely be the correct move for the right price. They can afford to lose one of their many fringe prospects or picks for a good shot at going deep this year.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Perry isn't worth trading for. Right now the price would be too high for a rental. TSN reporting Perry is looking for a 10m-11m deal. We won't sign Perry for that price and he's not even close to worth it. Perry is a 7.5m player at best and Anaheim ruined the market by signing Getzlaf to 8.5m. No team in their right mind will sign Perry for 10m for 7 year, which is what he wants, when the cap is going down by 10m over 2 seasons. That is a Glen Sather move.

To put it in perspective Perry's best season was 50g 98 pts. His average is 26.5G 29.9A for 56.4 pts a season. Malkin is averaging 78.6 pts a season and is being paid 8.7m. Crosby is averaging 81 pts a season getting 8.7m. In what world is Perry worth more than either of those 2 players?

This seems like solid analysis, but I guarantee you that if Perry hits the open market some team (e.g., TO) will happily shovel him exactly the kind of contract you're describing. UFA frenzy is not really about what a player is 'worth' relative to the existing norms; it's about what a player is worth in a frenzied auction where hungry teams are desperately outbidding each other for his services. Witness the lunacy of the Parise or Ehrhoff contracts.

illWill, you raise an interesting question. The longer we hover around 1st place, the greater the plausibility of thinking we actually have a chance to do serious damage in the playoffs. It would be a great error to think that, just because we're doing so much better than expected, it follows that these guys must not be a 'real' playoff threat. And I for one have no desire to see a repeat of 2008, where we weakened a possibly-contending team going into the playoffs (presumably because management had identified 2009 as 'the' year when it was all supposed to come together). It's great to have a plan, but you also have to take advantage of the momentum created by success.

That'd be the argument for (a) NOT moving a Gio at the deadline and (b) possibly moving a pick for, say, Streit. I don't know how I feel about it yet...is it indeed be time to shift our expectations a little bit?

[illWill]

illWill, you raise an interesting question. The longer we hover around 1st place, the greater the plausibility of thinking we actually have a chance to do serious damage in the playoffs. And I for one have no desire to see a repeat of 2008, where we weakened a possibly-contending team going into the playoffs (presumably because management had identified 2009 as 'the' year when it was all supposed to come together. Yet 2008 showed that, when you're having one of those magic years, you should roll with it).

That'd be the argument for (a) NOT moving a Gio at the deadline and (b) possibly moving a pick for, say, Streit. I don't know how I feel about it yet, but it may indeed be time to shift our expectations a little bit.

I just think that people everywhere are not giving this team the credit that it deserves. Who had them leading the East halfway through the season? Nobody. In the season prediction thread, I couldn't believe where some people had them finishing. I believe that I had them finishing with 59 points and that was the highest point total that anybody said. This team is not the team that was an utter embarrassment last year. Everything that could have went wrong, did, and then some. With a couple wily acquistions , a new leadership group, and health, this is a totally different team. I hate how nobody believes in this team and is just waiting for them to fail. 24 games is a fairly decent sample size. I'm not saying this team is going all the way, but at least get excited at being in the mix.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

There's still quite a few games before trade deadline but it's good to remember that Montreal is:

4th in Goals Per Game (3rd in East)

7th in Goals Against Per Game (4th in East)

4th in 5 on 5 Scoring (1st in East)

9th in Powerplay (5th in East)

13th in Penalty Kill (6th in East)

10th in Shots Per Game (7th in East)

7th in Least Shots Against Per Game (3rd in East)

23rd in Face Off Percentage (12th in East)

11th in Hits (7th in East)

14th in Blocked Shots (8th in East)

Based on this going into the post-season against the East, what we truly need is a better face off man. We're one of the best teams in the NHL for scoring and playing defence. This is a team that could use tweaks, not sweeping changes.

If the Canadiens are looking for a larger player with faceoff ability for the fourth line, a rental looks to be a Michal Handzus while a long term possibly could be Jay Beagle.

[hab29RETIRED]

I don't see how they can afford Perry at those numbers- particularly when they won't have guys like Selanne and Koivu not being available as bargains in 2 years time, AND still be competitive

I don't buy TSN's numbers. I think their brains are still in pre new CBA mode.

Anaheim can afford two big contracts. They have a very old club with some decent bargains throughout. Once Selanne and Koivu retire they'll need a guy like Getzlaf and possibly Perry to attract people to fill those spots in. This strong season is a good sell to them.

[hab29RETIRED]

We have a lousy record within our division, have blown a lot of leads (but have done a good job of coming back from blown leads). Keep in mind, in the playoffs, things are a lot tighter, refs will have their whistles in their pocket when it comes to the tough/borderline legal hits, but will still cause the undisciplined stuff- which has been out Achilles heal for a long time. Last time we finished first, we weren't tough enough in the playoffs (although I do like thus team better).

How are the Habs a long shot to win the cup? They are first in the conference halfway through the season and are playing as well as anybody. They have one of the best goaltenders in the world and we all know what a hot goalie can do in the playoffs. As long as this team stays healthy, there is no reason to think that they cannot make some noise in the spring. Adding a solid veteran player at the deadline would absolutely be the correct move for the right price. They can afford to lose one of their many fringe prospects or picks for a good shot at going deep this year.

[dlbalr]

If we could get Gionta to wave his no trade, I really think we'd be able to move him to Edmonton in a package for Paajarvi.

If the Habs add in something significant, sure. Edmonton has big raises kicking in for Eberle and Hall next season, why would they want to add a $5 million second line winger on top of that? That would make zero sense for them. Yes, they need veteran support in their top six but there will be cheaper options out there for them.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'd argue that moving a guy like Gio and bringing a more skilled, tougher player, gives us what we need to do well in the playoffs.

I also don't think it's fair to use Perry's career average, you have to consider the last 3 or 4 years, since it took him a while to hit his stride, and also need to consider last year was a down year for most of the team.

This seems like solid analysis, but I guarantee you that if Perry hits the open market some team (e.g., TO) will happily shovel him exactly the kind of contract you're describing. UFA frenzy is not really about what a player is 'worth' relative to the existing norms; it's about what a player is worth in a frenzied auction where hungry teams are desperately outbidding each other for his services. Witness the lunacy of the Parise or Ehrhoff contracts.

illWill, you raise an interesting question. The longer we hover around 1st place, the greater the plausibility of thinking we actually have a chance to do serious damage in the playoffs. It would be a great error to think that, just because we're doing so much better than expected, it follows that these guys must not be a 'real' playoff threat. And I for one have no desire to see a repeat of 2008, where we weakened a possibly-contending team going into the playoffs (presumably because management had identified 2009 as 'the' year when it was all supposed to come together). It's great to have a plan, but you also have to take advantage of the momentum created by success.

That'd be the argument for (a) NOT moving a Gio at the deadline and (b) possibly moving a pick for, say, Streit. I don't know how I feel about it yet...is it indeed be time to shift our expectations a little bit?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I'd argue that moving a guy like Gio and bringing a more skilled, tougher player, gives us what we need to do well in the playoffs.

I also don't think it's fair to use Perry's career average, you have to consider the last 3 or 4 years, since it took him a while to hit his stride, and also need to consider last year was a down year for most of the team.

Please name a more skilled, tougher player that isn't going to gut our prospect pool or team performers by acquiring said player.

[hab29RETIRED]

Edmonton's biggest need is veteran leadership from someone who's actually won something.

If the Habs add in something significant, sure. Edmonton has big raises kicking in for Eberle and Hall next season, why would they want to add a $5 million second line winger on top of that? That would make zero sense for them. Yes, they need veteran support in their top six but there will be cheaper options out there for them.

[dlbalr]

Edmonton's biggest need is veteran leadership from someone who's actually won something.

And they can't acquire that cheaper than dealing a struggling 1st round prospect for a $5 million player many here say is in steep decline? I think they'd want Moen more than they would Gionta.

[hab29RETIRED]

Clowe. He is having s horrible year, but that whole team has collapsed.

Paajarvi - could really benefit from a change in scenery.

Umberger- was a hab killer, has had injury problems on a Columbus team going nowhere.

Please name a more skilled, tougher player that isn't going to gut our prospect pool or team performers by acquiring said player.

Moen is the other guy I want to replace.

And they can't acquire that cheaper than dealing a struggling 1st round prospect for a $5 million player many here say is in steep decline? I think they'd want Moen more than they would Gionta.

[dlbalr]

Paajarvi - could really benefit from a change in scenery.

Umberger- was a hab killer, has had injury problems on a Columbus team going nowhere.

Paajarvi is tough? He averages about 1/2 a hit per game this year, or comparable to Diaz and even less last season. Physical is something he's not. As for Umberger, he'd be someone Columbus would love to unload but with 4 years and $4.6 M per year left, the Habs would be wise to stay away. They dealt Cole in large part for financial reasons, picking him up would go completely against what they just did...and Cole is the better player.