Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Height and size help a lot in the playoffs.

That is where bodies really break down and teams can LEAN on the Habs.

How much has size helped the Sharks? They haven't made it any farther than the Canadiens.

I'd much prefer to keep and use a performing, hard working, playoff performing Brian Gionta than an overrated, lazy, all talk and no walk Ryane Clowe just because he was born with bigger bones.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'm so sick of hearing about size, or lack thereof with this team. Clearly you didn't see 5'9 Gallagher drive his way to the net last night to score the winning goal. That kid has more heart and drive than 95% of the league. I would gladly take him on my team over any 6'3 floater. There is too much of a misconception about height. And it is mostly directed against the Habs and no other team. Sad when fans are drinking the kool aid served to them by the media. Gionta is basically Gallagher but with more miles on the odometer. DD is soft but very effective at what he does. It's okay to have a few soft guys on your team, not every body throws the body. It just drives me crazy when height is the main point of conversation about a team that is first in the conference. Clearly the Habs don't give a shit how tall they are, why should you?

Actually, I love Gallagher. However you can only have so many guys that size - particularly in the playoffs when the checking is tighter and the refs pocket their whistles. It's not just height, but weight and toughness, particularly the way the game is called in the playoffs. There is a reason why the flyers pretty much used as as a door mat, despite us knocking off Washington and Pittsburgh one year and BOston a couple of years before that.

The fact that Gionta has so many miles on the odometer, is EXACTLY why i want to move him.

[hab29RETIRED]

How much has size helped the Sharks? They haven't made it any farther than the Canadiens.

I'd much prefer to keep and use a performing, hard working, playoff performing Brian Gionta than an overrated, lazy, all talk and no walk Ryane Clowe just because he was born with bigger bones.

The opintion about Ryder was the same as CLowe, during Ryder's last year in Montreal. Same thing with Cammy last year. He sucked on the habs, has 9 goals this year - despite missing games with injuries.

[illWill]

Actually, I love Gallagher. However you can only have so many guys that size - particularly in the playoffs when the checking is tighter and the refs pocket their whistles. It's not just height, but weight and toughness, particularly the way the game is called in the playoffs. There is a reason why the flyers pretty much used as as a door mat, despite us knocking off Washington and Pittsburgh one year and BOston a couple of years before that.

The fact that Gionta has so many miles on the odometer, is EXACTLY why i want to move him.

Every team in the league has good and bad opposition match ups. If ours is playing teams that are big goons, then we better hope to avoid them in the playoffs. Although I think that it's just a matter of who plays their game better that eventually will win a series. Look at the last game vs Toronto, all they were doing was taking runs at us and we took the hits, made the plays and scored where it mattered. Our identity this year is speed, quick transition, and an aggressive forecheck. Why change that? The Devils last year certainly weren't a "big" team and they went quite far.

[JMMR]

Crosby is worth $15m a year.

Maybe not he only has 5 assist tonights.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Habs29's reasoning is pretty sound. I've long defended the old saw that 'it ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog' - but I also think the past few seasons have shown that that is true only to a point. Even the 2010 miracle run got shot down by, guess who? Philly.

It would be wrong to think you need 6'4 beasts at all positions. But if guys like DD and Gallagher - who is one of the most amazing rookies I've ever seen in a Habs jersey, by the way - are playing key roles, you'd better have some size around them if you want to survive four grinding, punishing, clutch-and-grabbing playoff rounds.

MB was correct when he said that Cup-winning teams don't pray for matchups. They are able to play every kind of game. That's what killed us in '10. We clobbered teams that played an E-W style like us. Once we encountered a N-S team of hulks, we were done.

All that said: part of the dilemma is that we're caught being unexpected 'contenders,' or at least a team with an actual chance to do damage. Contenders are the teams that should be reaching out for a Gionta. Clowe might add size, but what does he know about winning?

So it's a real dilemma, i.e., one with no easy answer. But with Cole gone I'm really not too keen about our size-to-skill ratio. Adding quality size could make a huge difference in the dance.

[JGC21]

Since Gionta is the captain, trading him at the deadline would eff up the locker room IMO. There would be too many questions raised that would distract not just the players but the coaches too:

How could they trade their captain?

Why get rid of his leadership?

Who will be the next Habs captain?

Etc, etc, etc...

Gionta is helping them win. Sure he 'might' fetch us a decent player in return who could be bigger, stronger, better - but he may not. My point is why take that chance?

I think Gionta should stay. I would use our 2nd and 3rd round picks to get a Ryane Clowe and Mark Streit.

Then I would unload Weber, Kaberle and even Moen for 4th and 5th rounders. Montreal has proven to be a good drafting team, so later round picks don't scare me. In the end we get some added insurance for the playoffs and still have plenty of picks, albeit later round one's.

[JMMR]

I am against trading Gionta strictly because the Habs lead the East more than half way through the season, honestly fellas 8 more wins could clinch a playoff spot. Seriously 54 points will be good enough for 8th.

If the Habs were a bubble team then yes selling every player over 30 might make sense at the deadline where many GMs make big mistakes.

However I don't believe the Habs should mortgage any future for a one year asset.

Gionta is an excellent monitor for Gallagher.

[PMAC]

Habs29's reasoning is pretty sound. I've long defended the old saw that 'it ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog' - but I also think the past few seasons have shown that that is true only to a point. Even the 2010 miracle run got shot down by, guess who? Philly.

It would be wrong to think you need 6'4 beasts at all positions. But if guys like DD and Gallagher - who is one of the most amazing rookies I've ever seen in a Habs jersey, by the way - are playing key roles, you'd better have some size around them if you want to survive four grinding, punishing, clutch-and-grabbing playoff rounds.

MB was correct when he said that Cup-winning teams don't pray for matchups. They are able to play every kind of game. That's what killed us in '10. We clobbered teams that played an E-W style like us. Once we encountered a N-S team of hulks, we were done.

All that said: part of the dilemma is that we're caught being unexpected 'contenders,' or at least a team with an actual chance to do damage. Contenders are the teams that should be reaching out for a Gionta. Clowe might add size, but what does he know about winning?

So it's a real dilemma, i.e., one with no easy answer. But with Cole gone I'm really not too keen about our size-to-skill ratio. Adding quality size could make a huge difference in the dance.

I agree. As a small guy who plays rugby against hulks, I know that it takes better fitness, positioning, aggression and smarts for a smaller guy to last among the giants. I love Gallagher for many reasons, but it is absolute refusal to take a step back or let the other team dictate how or where he plays that I love the most. I think however, that it is possible that he and DD might get worn down after a number of long playoff series which is what I think happend in 2010. So, do I think we could use more size? Of Course!

Still, successful, conference leading teams do not trade their captain unless they are getting an amazing package back that would help immediately. Even then, I think MB would be very leery of upsetting the locker-room balance. I look for the Habs to add a face-off guy/secondary scorer for a depth prospect or a pick. Unlikely they find a taker for Kaberle--and he might be useful depth in the playoffs( or even sooner if we have another injury on D) and highly unlikely they try to move Moen--don't really understand the hate-- he is very effective on the 4th line and can play on the 3rd if necessary.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'm not saying we need to trade Gionta this year, but I do think we should try moving him before the draft. I also think we still need to add a bigger, skilled body up front, so that we don't have a Moen, white, Armstrong, or even Prust in the top 9. Proust has exceeded all of my expectations for the year, but I think if we can add someone with size AND a lot more skill, so that Prust and white are the main guys on the 4th (energy) line, that is actually a good thing.

Moen while being defensively responsible just not hit enough for a 4th liner.

I am against trading Gionta strictly because the Habs lead the East more than half way through the season, honestly fellas 8 more wins could clinch a playoff spot. Seriously 54 points will be good enough for 8th.

If the Habs were a bubble team then yes selling every player over 30 might make sense at the deadline where many GMs make big mistakes.

However I don't believe the Habs should mortgage any future for a one year asset.

Gionta is an excellent monitor for Gallagher.

[ForumGhost]

There's no reason to move Gionta during the season. Understandably, it seems a lot of people aren't used to being in a 'buyer' mind frame.

[Commandant]

Where when?

In a summer interview with Dave Stubbs.

Gill was asked how he felt about the Habs hiring Therrien.

He said something like.... well, that's one team to scratch off my list of free agent destinations.

[Commandant]

I'd do that in a second. However Doug Wilson would probably be fired for even considering it.

While I think Weber will succeed after leaving Minteeal and Leblanc will be an effective 3rd liner, all three are at a all time low in their value.

Clowe will soon be a UFA.

Clowe has 0 (zero) NADA, ZILCH, NONE, goals this season.

I wouldn't trade Louis Leblanc straight up for Clowe, never mind the rest..... they can have a third rounder for the guy with 0 goals.

[TurdBurglar]

In a summer interview with Dave Stubbs.

Gill was asked how he felt about the Habs hiring Therrien.

He said something like.... well, that's one team to scratch off my list of free agent destinations.

I bet you if Gill looked at the standing now and had a chance to eat those words, he would be.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

You wonder what Cammalleri is thinking too. He wanted out of a 'loser' organization, and now he's in...Calgary??

[TurdBurglar]

You wonder what Cammalleri is thinking too. He wanted out of a 'loser' organization, and now he's in...Calgary??

I don't think we would be where we are today if that trade didn't happen. I'm by no means saying Bourque is the sole reason we're doing so well. I do believe Bourque's renewed vigor coupled with Prusts play, gave the whole team a boost. I don't believe Prust alone would of did it. If you remember correctly it's was Bourque and Pleks who were looking like a true 1st line pairing when the Wolvie line couldn't get anything going. I don't think Cammy would of brought that drive to the net or battling down low like Bourque did and the standing would be looking different.

Plus the Cammy trade helped free up some of the cap space for Prust. I doubt we'd be last in the league, but also doubt we'd be first without that trade.

[BlueKross]

Habs29's reasoning is pretty sound. I've long defended the old saw that 'it ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog' - but I also think the past few seasons have shown that that is true only to a point. Even the 2010 miracle run got shot down by, guess who? Philly.

It would be wrong to think you need 6'4 beasts at all positions. But if guys like DD and Gallagher - who is one of the most amazing rookies I've ever seen in a Habs jersey, by the way - are playing key roles, you'd better have some size around them if you want to survive four grinding, punishing, clutch-and-grabbing playoff rounds.

MB was correct when he said that Cup-winning teams don't pray for matchups. They are able to play every kind of game. That's what killed us in '10. We clobbered teams that played an E-W style like us. Once we encountered a N-S team of hulks, we were done.

All that said: part of the dilemma is that we're caught being unexpected 'contenders,' or at least a team with an actual chance to do damage. Contenders are the teams that should be reaching out for a Gionta. Clowe might add size, but what does he know about winning?

So it's a real dilemma, i.e., one with no easy answer. But with Cole gone I'm really not too keen about our size-to-skill ratio. Adding quality size could make a huge difference in the dance.

I agree with everything here. I would be the first to tell you that in the past to win typically you need to be bigger. Your summation of a real dilemma bodes true for me. The style of the game has changed significantly particularly this year. There isn't as much hitting. We have stayed pretty healthy. It is a short year. With the success that we have had coupled with anst over changing the chemistry, I am wondering how bold we should be at the deadline. Right now I am more comfortable doing little. What's the right answer. Maybe we should go for it?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I agree with everything here. I would be the first to tell you that in the past to win typically you need to be bigger. Your summation of a real dilemma bodes true for me. The style of the game has changed significantly particularly this year. There isn't as much hitting. We have stayed pretty healthy. It is a short year. With the success that we have had coupled with anst over changing the chemistry, I am wondering how bold we should be at the deadline. Right now I am more comfortable doing little. What's the right answer. Maybe we should go for it?

There's no easy answer for sure. And the question about chemistry is legitimate - as is the fact that Gio has 9 (!) goals so far, and is a proven playoff performer despite his size. If Bergevin stands pat, I will have no problem at all with that; but I also won't be surprised to find us bowing out in the playoffs to a big, tough team like Boston or even (gulp!) TO.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

You wonder what Cammalleri is thinking too. He wanted out of a 'loser' organization, and now he's in...Calgary??

He never said he wanted out. He said they were playing like losers and the team agreed. Gauthier knew he was having problems with Cunneyworth and panic dealt him.

[Commandant]

I bet you if Gill looked at the standing now and had a chance to eat those words, he would be.

Possible, but Gill also went to the Stanley Cup Final playing for Therrien, so if he still said that after such a season, the current standings may not change his opinion.

[BlueKross]

There's no easy answer for sure. And the question about chemistry is legitimate - as is the fact that Gio has 9 (!) goals so far, and is a proven playoff performer despite his size. If Bergevin stands pat, I will have no problem at all with that; but I also won't be surprised to find us bowing out in the playoffs to a big, tough team like Boston or even (gulp!) TO.

Actually as far as I am concerned, they are the two teams that have given us the most trouble. Maybe that is a clue to where we should go.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Actually as far as I am concerned, they are the two teams that have given us the most trouble. Maybe that is a clue to where we should go.

Toronto always gives us trouble due to the rivalry and Boston is the cream of the crop in the Eastern Conference. If Boston didn't give us trouble we'd be a playoff favourite. I find it interesting that people keep bringing up that Toronto game when it was that loss that ignited the team into gelling together and becoming one of the best teams in the East. When we played them again, we stuck to our game instead of sinking to theirs and we creamed them. Yes we lost twice to the Leafs. One of those games was the season opener and the team had hardly gelled to Therrien's system yet.

We're a very well balanced team. Faceoff percentage is more important than fighting in the post-season and right now we sit 23rd. The only Eastern Conference teams we might face with a weaker FO% is Philly and New Jersey. That's where the playoff improvement needs to come in. That's where we need to ask ourselves if DD is good enough.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

-i think us losing to philly in 2010 wasnt so much that we got bullyed around by a bigger tougher team then merely playing back to back gruelling 7 game series and losing our best and most important player in markov. the run was over. philly was a better team in 2010!

-clowe even with 0 goals i would still be interested in.... buy low sell high boys

-am i the only one who thinks that prust is in fact very talented and doesnt belong on the 4th line? i like prust with eller and gally and he should be playing 14-16 minutes a game. those are not 4th line minutes

- i dont think TO and bos have given us the most trouble either. we played boston twice and should of came out with 4 points if not for a 3 minute meltdown. against TO the last game was more indicitive of how we can play against them. i thought OTT gave us the most trouble so far!

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

when it comes to faceoffs its pleks that drives our numbers down. he's our #1C and is horrible at faceoffs. its like he doesnt even try at times... i'd like to see him change his approach to a more guy carbo peter zezel yannick perrault style of face off winning by holding the stick with the low hand backwards and really close to the blade. digging in those skates and winning through his legs! hes got the body frame to do it. he just needs to commit to improving and not just going through the motion.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

There can be no question that we should be looking for a Moore-type faceoff guy, at least. HEARTS, I don't see Prust as a 4th-liner either. He is perfectly suited to a third-line role on a team that rolls three lines. In fact, one reason he came here, apparently, was that he wanted the chance to be used in other roles than just that of a pugilist. He'll never get 50 points, but he is anything but an offensive liability and I have no problem moving him up and down the lines as circumstances command.

I've said before, I want no part of a TO series. That would be way more special for them than it would be for us. That's a bad mix. And I guarantee you at least one of our guys ends up injured in that series, because that's TO's way of doing things (for which they will be madly praised by the CBC cheerleaders). No thanks.