BlueKross Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Toronto always gives us trouble due to the rivalry and Boston is the cream of the crop in the Eastern Conference. If Boston didn't give us trouble we'd be a playoff favourite. I find it interesting that people keep bringing up that Toronto game when it was that loss that ignited the team into gelling together and becoming one of the best teams in the East. When we played them again, we stuck to our game instead of sinking to theirs and we creamed them. Yes we lost twice to the Leafs. One of those games was the season opener and the team had hardly gelled to Therrien's system yet. We're a very well balanced team. Faceoff percentage is more important than fighting in the post-season and right now we sit 23rd. The only Eastern Conference teams we might face with a weaker FO% is Philly and New Jersey. That's where the playoff improvement needs to come in. That's where we need to ask ourselves if DD is good enough. Nobody said anything about fighting. Because you want to get bigger you must be fighting? What's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 when it comes to faceoffs its pleks that drives our numbers down. he's our #1C and is horrible at faceoffs. its like he doesnt even try at times... i'd like to see him change his approach to a more guy carbo peter zezel yannick perrault style of face off winning by holding the stick with the low hand backwards and really close to the blade. digging in those skates and winning through his legs! hes got the body frame to do it. he just needs to commit to improving and not just going through the motion. Plekanec actually drives the Habs' numbers up. He has a faceoff percentage of 49.5% (better than anyone but Dumont/White) whereas Montreal's team percentage is 48.0%. Desharnais and Galchenyuk (Prust as well to a lesser extent since he only averages a couple of faceoffs per game) are the ones below the team average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Plekanec actually drives the Habs' numbers up. He has a faceoff percentage of 49.5% (better than anyone but Dumont/White) whereas Montreal's team percentage is 48.0%. Desharnais and Galchenyuk (Prust as well to a lesser extent since he only averages a couple of faceoffs per game) are the ones below the team average. so white is 53.9% plex 49.5% eller 49.1% DD 47.5% Gally 44% (now at wing) (dumonts 2 games doesnt count). im not a number cruncher but plex and DD compared to the other 60 #1/2C can't be good in comparison! to me plex under 50% is no where near what a number 1C should be. so statistically he is #2 on our team at the dot but the fact he takes the most important faceoffs during games like that first PP and PK face off in there respective zones as well as the FO in the biggest moments of our games and loses that faceoff more often then he wins it is the sole reason "he" needs to improve and drives our number down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 so white is 53.9% plex 49.5% eller 49.1% DD 47.5% Gally 44% (now at wing) (dumonts 2 games doesnt count). im not a number cruncher but plex and DD compared to the other 60 #1/2C can't be good in comparison! to me plex under 50% is no where near what a number 1C should be. so statistically he is #2 on our team at the dot but the fact he takes the most important faceoffs during games like that first PP and PK face off in there respective zones as well as the FO in the biggest moments of our games and loses that faceoff more often then he wins it is the sole reason "he" needs to improve and drives our number down No, he and Desharnais aren't up there as a 1/2 tandem, that's for sure. But being near 50% isn't terrible for a good centre (not great or bad either). He has the same FO% as Getzlaf and is better than the likes of Tavares, Ribeiro, Malkin, and Henrik Sedin, to name a few centres who are at or near the top of their team in scoring. Given that he takes as many important draws as you've noted, it would be nice if he could get on the happy side of 50 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Nobody said anything about fighting. Because you want to get bigger you must be fighting? What's that? Why do people mention the Toronto game? Goals by such big men like Kessel, Holzer, Komorov and Bozak was hurting us I guess. Plekanec floats between 49% and 50% which is acceptable. DD at 47% isn't. He needs to either get better for a top six center or be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Lets not lose sight that playing hardball with Subban could have ended up in disaster for us, like it did with Colorado. Had another team offered Subban a contract, like o'Reilly's we would have been screwed. IMO, Subban is worth a hell of a lot more then O'Reilly. That's true, but Bergevin must have done a good job selling the idea of a bridge contract and proving oneself before getting the big payday. There's certainly much less pressure for Subban with his current deal. Imagine all the pundits jumping on his every mistake if he was getting 5 million. On the downside, we will probably end up paying him more in two years if he continues producing. But if he had a big deal right now it would be a distraction, and I'm happy for him to earn the big bucks if he deserves them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Subban wanted to stay in Montreal. O'Reilly wanted to get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Why do people mention the Toronto game? Goals by such big men like Kessel, Holzer, Komorov and Bozak was hurting us I guess. I mentioned the Toronto and Boston games. Both of them out muscled us then took control of game. That didn't happen as much the second time around, but that doesn't mean it won't reappear. Remember Chara spent most of the third period in the box in the last game. There is a good chance we will see one of them or both in a seven game series.Thats why i am talking about the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I mentioned the Toronto and Boston games. Both of them out muscled us then took control of game. That didn't happen as much the second time around, but that doesn't mean it won't reappear. Remember Chara spent most of the third period in the box in the last game. There is a good chance we will see one of them or both in a seven game series.Thats why i am talking about the two. Montreal can always beat Boston and Toronto if they stick to their game. When they try to play the physical game, they lose. This is why Montreal needs to only acquire players with speed and puck control. If they can get speed and puck control with size? Do it. But if it's just size for size sake, forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 so white is 53.9% plex 49.5% eller 49.1% DD 47.5% Gally 44% (now at wing) (dumonts 2 games doesnt count). im not a number cruncher but plex and DD compared to the other 60 #1/2C can't be good in comparison! to me plex under 50% is no where near what a number 1C should be. so statistically he is #2 on our team at the dot but the fact he takes the most important faceoffs during games like that first PP and PK face off in there respective zones as well as the FO in the biggest moments of our games and loses that faceoff more often then he wins it is the sole reason "he" needs to improve and drives our number down The difference between the top faceoff team in the league and us is a whole 4 faceoff wins per game. And that is as a team. Pleks percentage means he is losing 1 more faceoff per game than a top guy. Faceoff percentage is one of the most overrated stats in hockey IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Playoffs only LA was 49.7% in faceoffs last year The Cup winner who shall not be named... 52% in the 2011 playoffs Chicago 50.8 Penguins 48.4 Detroit 54.6 Ducks 50.6 Canes 51.2 Bolts 48.7 Devils 47% Wings 52 So of the last 10 Cup winners, 4 were under 50% Look at the best teams in the NHL standings and where they rank in faceoffs.... there is 0 correlation between winning faceoffs and winning games. The difference is so minimal in the percentages as to cancel out as white noise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 2011-2012 Playoffs: LA: 49.7% NJ: 47.2% 2010-2011 Playoffs: BOS: 52% VAN: 49.9% 2009-2010 Playoffs: CHI: 50.8% PHI: 47.9% Also your numbers are misleading because average faceoff percentage for a team is between 48-52%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Playoffs only Look at the best teams in the NHL standings and where they rank in faceoffs.... there is 0 correlation between winning faceoffs and winning games. The difference is so minimal in the percentages as to cancel out as white noise. All that said face offs are important just not the %. It is far easier to play when you start with the Puck more often than your opponent. The face offs that matter are 1. First face off of every PK/PP 2. Late face offs when up or down by a goal Face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 All that said face offs are important just not the %. It is far easier to play when you start with the Puck more often than your opponent. The face offs that matter are 1. First face off of every PK/PP 2. Late face offs when up or down by a goal Face Yes, those are the faceoffs that matter. But still with a difference of 4-6% between the best teams and the worst teams at faceoffs, we are talking a difference of winning one extra PK/PP faceoff instead of losing it per game. Its near irrelevant, hence why there is no correlation between being a good faceoff team and a winning team. Why do you think Yanic Perreault never took late game defensive zone faceoffs, event though he was the best faceoff guy in the league when we had him. Cause even if he won 55% of draws, that still means he loses 9 out of every 20 draws, and he was useless defensively when he lost a draw. Most important is how you play the game after losing the draw, and how quickly your 5 man defensive unit is able to get puck possession back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Montreal can always beat Boston and Toronto if they stick to their game. When they try to play the physical game, they lose. This is why Montreal needs to only acquire players with speed and puck control. If they can get speed and puck control with size? Do it. But if it's just size for size sake, forget it. Couldn't be said any better. I feel like I want Montreal to trade every player they have for all the tallest players in the league. And then when we don't win a cup, what will they all say is the reason? Apparently size is the only thing that matters. Ask your women, you gotta know how to use it if you got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Faceoff percentage is one of the most overrated stats in hockey IMO. 100%. It's simple math, essentially a coinflip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 But back to the thread title, if I were to make any moves at the deadline, I would try to get Jagr. I'd offer Holland and or a pick and see what happens. Or even an O'Byrne for Weber and or a pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 But back to the thread title, if I were to make any moves at the deadline, I would try to get Jagr. I'd offer Holland and or a pick and see what happens. Or even an O'Byrne for Weber and or a pick. I certainly don't want to trade for O'Byrne only to have him ride the pine or sit upstairs because Therrien would be frustrated as hell with all of his defensive errors. He's worse this year than in his overrated season last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 But back to the thread title, if I were to make any moves at the deadline, I would try to get Jagr. I'd offer Holland and or a pick and see what happens. Or even an O'Byrne for Weber and or a pick. Why? Why would you offer a prospect and a pick for either of those guys?! Jagr is 41! Last season he ran out of gas by the end of the season and OB has not improved that much since he was last here. If we were to get either, I would be annoyed if anything more than a 2nd or 3rd rd pick went the other way. This is a low upside trade for the Habs unless we give up very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Certainly O'Byrne is only an insurance depth player that offers something we are lacking and trading Weber is of no consequence. And being able to obtain a first-ballot hall of fame player, despite being old, is indisputably a great move for a young team with a shot. Trading a fringe prospect in Holland doesn't break the bank moving forward. One of the main reasons successful teams stockpile prospects is to use them in trades to improve the team, for whenever that may be. If we are in the top 5 in the East, our time is now to take a chance. What are you waiting for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Certainly O'Byrne is only an insurance depth player that offers something we are lacking and trading Weber is of no consequence. And being able to obtain a first-ballot hall of fame player, despite being old, is indisputably a great move for a young team with a shot. Trading a fringe prospect in Holland doesn't break the bank moving forward. One of the main reasons successful teams stockpile prospects is to use them in trades to improve the team, for whenever that may be. If we are in the top 5 in the East, our time is now to take a chance. What are you waiting for? A better player... and I am not sure Holland is a fringe prospect...time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Montreal can always beat Boston and Toronto if they stick to their game. When they try to play the physical game, they lose. This is why Montreal needs to only acquire players with speed and puck control. If they can get speed and puck control with size? Do it. But if it's just size for size sake, forget it. They are going into the playoffs and they will do alright if they don't get into a physical game? I got news for you, it will stay dark if the sun don't rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 They are going into the playoffs and they will do alright if they don't get into a physical game? I got news for you, it will stay dark if the sun don't rise. Speaking of physical, what about Ben Eager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Speaking of physical, what about Ben Eager? A bit of reading on Eager, it certainly doesn't make him sound like an attractive pickup: http://oilonwhyte.com/2013/03/13/ben-eager-placed-on-waivers/ In theory, he's the type of player the Habs could use, someone who can hit and play more than the standard 4 minutes a night for your uni-dimensional heavyweights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 If he was effective, he wouldn't be on waivers. Has not been the same since Kassian clocked him. He will probably finish his career in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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