Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[Helmethead]

Well, my own gut feeling is that Price for Colorado's 1st overall pick is NOT beyond the pale of what Colorado would contemplate. Patrick Roy will not feel bound by the stupid decisions of his predecessors vis-a-vis Varlamov. He quite likely has the same sense we all have, that Price would absolutely dominate in the more relaxed confines of a non-insane market (and in his beloved west to boot). He knows better than anyone alive the effect a superb goalie can have on a team; and it wouldn't be beyond Roy's capacious ego to fancy that, taken under his wing, Price would flourish to Cup-worthy heights. More to the point, in terms of wider organizational and fan-base culture, the Avs have a bit of a long-standing fetish for Montreal/Quebec talent, and the defining moment in the history of the franchise involved trading to acquire a Montreal goalie. So the organizational DNA is primed for a move of this kind (just as Montreal's organizational DNA primed us all for the idea that Price would come in as a rookie and lead us to glory; a notion that probably resonated in part because of Montreal's history of stellar netminders, often coming from nowhere).

So I think it really depends on whether Roy thinks the Avs need a longer-term rebuild (in which case you retain the #1 pick) or whether he thinks they'd be immediately competitive if they can fix the back end, starting with the nets. If the latter, then Habs29's idea might actually have some traction if MB is interested.

You forgot to add how he can let loose and be a real cowboy in Colorado too..

[tebo64]

Roy did say in L'antichambre he would not trade lower then 3 when he considered all posibilities. If he will not go lower then 3rd then Montreal is not trading with Colorado unless the offer is unbelievable. So I expect to see Price in Montreal for a few years. That is not necessarily bad.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Roy did say in L'antichambre he would not trade lower then 3 when he considered all posibilities. If he will not go lower then 3rd then Montreal is not trading with Colorado unless the offer is unbelievable. So I expect to see Price in Montreal for a few years. That is not necessarily bad.

Colorado has Johnson, Florida has Gubranderson, Tampa has Hedman.

All three teams have only one top pairing defenceman. They could all use Jones.

Colorado has O'Reilly, Stewart, Landeskog, Duchene and Stastny. If Roy is planning to move someone out, his eyes could be on Drouin or MacKinnon. Due to the RFA offer sheet it's pretty likely that O'Reilly will be gone.

Florida is pretty open. They have Huberdeau but they need more. So trading up or down doesn't matter to them.

Tampa has Stamkos, strong veteran support in Lecavalier (well, used to be strong) and league leader St. Louis and then is gambling on two hulking goalies after trading Conacher. Yzerman might be thinking to build from the back end and might want a defenceman to do that. It's all about if Roy is looking for a negotiation.

I could definitely see a first overall for third overall plus swap that allows Tampa to take Jones, Florida to take MacKinnon and Colorado to take Drouin. Colorado then ships O'Reilly elsewhere for a defenceman.

[Trizzak]

Charles Wang is cheap. Will he pay in prospects so he won't pay in dollars?

MTL gets:

Rick Dipietro

Ryan Strome

NYI gets:

Tomas Kaberle

Buyout Dipietro immediately before he gets hurt for 2-4 months answering a phone call.

Come on Molson... have the stones.

[Commandant]

So basically we would pay the Isles $24 million dollars for 1 prospect.

Thats a hell of a fee. Easy to say when its not our money... but you are talking 37.8% of the full salary cap for next season.

Colorado has Johnson, Florida has Gubranderson, Tampa has Hedman.

All three teams have only one top pairing defenceman. They could all use Jones.

Colorado has O'Reilly, Stewart, Landeskog, Duchene and Stastny. If Roy is planning to move someone out, his eyes could be on Drouin or MacKinnon. Due to the RFA offer sheet it's pretty likely that O'Reilly will be gone.

Florida is pretty open. They have Huberdeau but they need more. So trading up or down doesn't matter to them.

Tampa has Stamkos, strong veteran support in Lecavalier (well, used to be strong) and league leader St. Louis and then is gambling on two hulking goalies after trading Conacher. Yzerman might be thinking to build from the back end and might want a defenceman to do that. It's all about if Roy is looking for a negotiation.

I could definitely see a first overall for third overall plus swap that allows Tampa to take Jones, Florida to take MacKinnon and Colorado to take Drouin. Colorado then ships O'Reilly elsewhere for a defenceman.

Stewart left Colorado a while ago.

Stastny is a UFA after this season. O'Reilly needs a 6.5 million offer just to qualify his rights as an RFA.

In that way Colorado really only has Duchene and Landeskong up front long term right now.

[Trizzak]

So basically we would pay the Isles $24 million dollars for 1 prospect.

Thats a hell of a fee. Easy to say when its not our money... but you are talking 37.8% of the full salary cap for next season.

24 million paid for with multiple Stanley Cups with Galchenyuk and Strome as 1A and 1B centremen.

[dlbalr]

24 million paid for with multiple Stanley Cups with Galchenyuk and Strome as 1A and 1B centremen.

If the Habs are going to pay $24 M for a prospect, they need to shoot higher than Strome. I don't see him as a #1 centre in the future - for some reason he screams 'bust' as a top-10 pick to me. I think he'll be a decent NHL'er but not an elite one which is what would be needed to justify that type of money.

[BlueKross]

Not that it would ever happen, but what would Subban fetch as the Norris trophy winner? Mackinnon/ Tavares/ Stamkos?

[Guest Stogey24]

Crunching hits, rocket for a shot, breaks through neutral zone and offensive zone with ease, great vision, and is on his way to be our new quarter back on PP. Why is even bring up subban's name in any trade scenario. The kid isn't even in his prime and has a Norris under his belt. He's an absolute gem!

[BlueKross]

Crunching hits, rocket for a shot, breaks through neutral zone and offensive zone with ease, great vision, and is on his way to be our new quarter back on PP. Why is even bring up subban's name in any trade scenario. The kid isn't even in his prime and has a Norris under his belt. He's an absolute gem!

I'll take that as a yes. It's a team game, single players only add to the whole Too many people get enamored by one player and forget it is the sum of the parts.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

You rarely ever see one to one superstar trades. I mean, the last one was what, Hossa for Heatley?

[Guest Stogey24]

I'll take that as a yes. It's a team game, single players only add to the whole Too many people get enamored by one player and forget it is the sum of the parts.

What are you talking about

[BlueKross]

Frankly, I am quite surprised there was good discussion on Carey Price. And since nobody closed their mind on that,i just thought i would discuss the value of another of our best players--- Subban. Yes everybody has a value and yes it would be idiotic not to consider a trade, if it come up. I didn't say trade him, I said consider. He may well be at peak value.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I dunno...if you ask me, Subban is more likely to get better than to regress. A normal development curve for defenders is about 5 years.

The whole line of inquiry remains fairly puzzling. If we have Stamkos, and Stamkos wins the Hart, do you then start a thread on trading him? Why??

[BlueKross]

What do you know, wholesome incite. i get that you might feel uncomfortable trading your best player and/or talking about it. But really, can't one dream about getting a Stamkos on this roster without him being damaged goods before you get him? Can't one speculate on the real value of your best player?

[Guest Stogey24]

Frankly, I am quite surprised there was good discussion on Carey Price. And since nobody closed their mind on that,i just thought i would discuss the value of another of our best players--- Subban. Yes everybody has a value and yes it would be idiotic not to consider a trade, if it come up. I didn't say trade him, I said consider. He may well be at peak value.

Subban had his break out year and price had his break down year(the last half of the season). That's why Carey's name has been thrown around in trade speculations. In my eyes any offer that comes at you for subban, you refuse. He's an untouchable. If you let this kid go now, your in deep shit down the road. Sky is the limit for this kid. His entire family is a core of talent, that has to tell you something about his compete level.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Subban had his break out year and price had his break down year(the last half of the season). That's why Carey's name has been thrown around in trade speculations. In my eyes any offer that comes at you for subban, you refuse. He's an untouchable. If you let this kid go now, your in deep shit down the road. Sky is the limit for this kid. His entire family is a core of talent, that has to tell you something about his compete level.

Bang on.

I guess one can always speculate about anyone's trade value. But it looks suspiciously like a 'grass is always greener' mentality. I think that some fans just don't appreciate a home-grown star. They always pine after big names from other organizations, failing to appreciate that the Big Name now actually wears the CH.

You've got one the best defencemen of his generation - and arguably the best since the Big Three - on your roster. He's outstanding in every facet of the game. He's 24 years old. As a bonus, he happens to be the most flamboyant and charismatic player in the game. What the hell more do you want? What would we hope to achieve by trading him?? It's just a bizarre line of inquiry, unless you think this season was a mirage.

[Guest Stogey24]

Bang on.

I guess one can always speculate about anyone's trade value. But it looks suspiciously like a 'grass is always greener' mentality. I think that some fans just don't appreciate a home-grown star. They always pine after big names from other organizations, failing to appreciate that the Big Name now actually wears the CH.

You've got one the best defencemen of his generation - and arguably the best since the Big Three - on your roster. He's outstanding in every facet of the game. He's 24 years old. As a bonus, he happens to be the most flamboyant and charismatic player in the game. What the hell more do you want? What would we hope to achieve by trading him?? It's just a bizarre line of inquiry, unless you think this season was a mirage.

Exactly

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The best situation to get a star player isn't to trade your star players for them but to have considerable depth that *appears* to have star potential to entice another team to send their poorly playing star player for those players.

That's how the Gretzky, Roy and Thornton trades worked out. Gretzky was still Gretzky of course at the time but Thornton was in a bad spot in Boston. Boston traded for him three players that they thought would create the depth to replace him. Sturm and Stuart didn't do that but that was the idea at the time. Same for Gretzky fetching a package including Jimmy Carson. Carson was a great player who couldn't take the pressure in Edmonton. With Roy, Montreal tried to get back a young starter, a power forward and a skilled winger. It didn't replace Roy.

That's how you get another team's strong player. You don't really get it by trading Price or Subban. One for one for another superstar are much more rare than a superstar being traded. Thornton wasn't damaged goods at all but Boston certainly wasn't looking for fair value back. They wanted "potential" value back. The deeper Montreal gets in prospects, the more you can sell a team on said players and possibly acquire a superstar without losing your own depth. That's why, as Bergevin states, you build through the draft.

[DON]

Bang on.

I guess one can always speculate about anyone's trade value. But it looks suspiciously like a 'grass is always greener' mentality. I think that some fans just don't appreciate a home-grown star. They always pine after big names from other organizations, failing to appreciate that the Big Name now actually wears the CH.

You've got one the best defencemen of his generation - and arguably the best since the Big Three - on your roster. He's outstanding in every facet of the game. He's 24 years old. As a bonus, he happens to be the most flamboyant and charismatic player in the game. What the hell more do you want? What would we hope to achieve by trading him?? It's just a bizarre line of inquiry, unless you think this season was a mirage.

Constant quality Bergevin seems to be needing is character, which a player who fights with numerous teammates during practice, seems to be lacking wouldnt you say?

What is the Habs deepest aspect, defense.

So you can afford to trade defense to strengthen top 6, eh?

Does Subban show any real leadership qualities? Not that i can see. So if a Columbus or Oilers come with a sweet offer, you would at least have to consider it.

And equating 3 Hall of fame d-men to Subban is a bit far-fetched at this stage isnt it?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Constant quality Bergevin seems to be needing is character, which a player who fights with numerous teammates during practice, seems to be lacking wouldnt you say?

What is the Habs deepest aspect, defense.

So you can afford to trade defense to strengthen top 6, eh?

Does Subban show any real leadership qualities? Not that i can see. So if a Columbus or Oilers come with a sweet offer, you would at least have to consider it.

And equating 3 Hall of fame d-men to Subban is a bit far-fetched at this stage isnt it?

I'm saying he is arguably the best defenceman we have had since the Big Three. The only other two that would be in this discussion would be Chelios and Markov. The Subban I saw this season may have had a more dominating all-around game than either of those two guys, although those two were/are awesome players. It's a close thing, which is why I said "arguably."

As for "character," we can't know, can we? The guy I see gives his all on the ice every night. Too often in hockey "character" is interpreted to mean being a good boy like Toews...we forget that Chelios, Lafleur, and lots of other all-time greats were not particularly good boys.

[DON]

I'm saying he is arguably the best defenceman we have had since the Big Three. The only other two that would be in this discussion would be Chelios and Markov. The Subban I saw this season may have had a more dominating all-around game than either of those two guys, although those two were/are awesome players. It's a close thing, which is why I said "arguably."

As for "character," we can't know, can we? The guy I see gives his all on the ice every night. Too often in hockey "character" is interpreted to mean being a good boy like Toews...we forget that Chelios, Lafleur, and lots of other all-time greats were not particularly good boys.

Sure, skills wise Subban may be best since #19, no argument

Also cant tell character, which is why i basically asked "does he show it to you?" i simply dont see it and if was traded tomorrow for a top six scorer that would be fine by me.

And no i dont think he does give it all every night, he dosent block shots, unless you call the flamingo an attempt. He also is outworked in the defensive zone and I wouldnt have him kill penalties, would you?

And he still seems a "Me first" player and not future captain material.

But if he signs a long term deal, that also would be fine by me, i am just not a big fan of his and i really dont think his teammates are neither? But again i could be out to lunch?

[Guest Stogey24]

Sure, skills wise Subban may be best since #19, no argument

Also cant tell character, which is why i basically asked "does he show it to you?" i simply dont see it and if was traded tomorrow for a top six scorer that would be fine by me.

And no i dont think he does give it all every night, he dosent block shots, unless you call the flamingo an attempt. He also is outworked in the defensive zone and I wouldnt have him kill penalties, would you?

And he still seems a "Me first" player and not future captain material.

But if he signs a long term deal, that also would be fine by me, i am just not a big fan of his and i really dont think his teammates are neither? But again i could be out to lunch?

You said it yourself DON, your not a fan. So any opinion you have is biased. The reason he is fighting with teammates is because he is going just as hard in the practice as in a game. Seems to have a lot of flaws for a Norris winner? Maybe you would rather have Phaneuf. Feels like a leaf fan's comment.

[Commandant]

Constant quality Bergevin seems to be needing is character, which a player who fights with numerous teammates during practice, seems to be lacking wouldnt you say?

What is the Habs deepest aspect, defense.

So you can afford to trade defense to strengthen top 6, eh?

Does Subban show any real leadership qualities? Not that i can see. So if a Columbus or Oilers come with a sweet offer, you would at least have to consider it.

And equating 3 Hall of fame d-men to Subban is a bit far-fetched at this stage isnt it?

We might have depth on defence... but NONE of that depth will be another Subban. He's a franchise changing #1 defenceman. At best, even if they reach their ceiling, Beaulieu and Tinordi are 2/3s

Sure, skills wise Subban may be best since #19, no argument

Also cant tell character, which is why i basically asked "does he show it to you?" i simply dont see it and if was traded tomorrow for a top six scorer that would be fine by me.

And no i dont think he does give it all every night, he dosent block shots, unless you call the flamingo an attempt. He also is outworked in the defensive zone and I wouldnt have him kill penalties, would you?

And he still seems a "Me first" player and not future captain material.

But if he signs a long term deal, that also would be fine by me, i am just not a big fan of his and i really dont think his teammates are neither? But again i could be out to lunch?

When Subban had the most minutes on the entire team on the Penalty Kill, the Habs had the #2 PK in the league.

THis year when Therrien didn't use him, our PK sucked.

Yes, I would use him to kill penalties.

[DON]

We might have depth on defence... but NONE of that depth will be another Subban. He's a franchise changing #1 defenceman. At best, even if they reach their ceiling, Beaulieu and Tinordi are 2/3s

When Subban had the most minutes on the entire team on the Penalty Kill, the Habs had the #2 PK in the league.

THis year when Therrien didn't use him, our PK sucked.

Yes, I would use him to kill penalties.

I know Subban is one of top 10 d-men in league; however, if #99 can be traded at his peak and Boston can trade a MVP, i simply do not see Subban as untouchable.