Fail For Nail Campaign

[C-Love]

I have been watching highlights of both Yakapov and Grigorenko and we would be more than happy with either player coming to Montreal next year. My hope is that we beat the leafs on Saturday and then go on a 5 game losing streak again. There is no point in winning games from here on out, but I really don't see this team being that bad next year, we have a bit of work to do in the off-season, but not a whole lot. Once we replace the GM/Coach* (*unfortunately, but that is the reality) we will be stable and begin to move forward, with the way Desharnais, Patches, Emelin, Eller, White and Diaz have been approving this year we are looking really good going forward. This team is not that bad, we just have some real dead weight that we have to get rid of. I can't see a situation where we lose Kaberle which is really unfortunate because if we could we only have a few holes for next year. This is what I see:

Cole (4,500,000) Need a #1 Centre Pacioretty (1,625,000)

Gionta (5,000,000) Desharnais (850,000) Need a #2 winger

Bourque (3,333,333) Plekanec (5,000,000) Geoffrion (1,500,000**)

White (1,000,000 **) Eller (2,000,000**) Staubitz (450,000**)

Markov (5,750,000) Emelin (1,250,000**)

Subban (2,000,000**) Need a top 4 d Man

Diaz (1,250,000**) Gorges (3,900,000)

Price (5,500,000**) Need a back up

** - My assessment as to prospective salaries for next year.

Gone: Gomez, Moen, Darche, Blunden, Nokelainen, Campoli, Kaberle, Budaj

Minors to start year: Weber, Leblanc

I know it's a long shot to get rid of Kaberle, but if we could find a way to unload him along with Gomez we have some serious money to fill the few holes we have. I don't think there is any doubt that we will buy Gomez out, if he can't be shopped, we just can't afford him going towards the cap with Price's raise and the expectation to have Markov off the LTR.

I also realize that Desharnais will probably stay with Patches and Cole, what I am referring to there is that we really need a big #1 Centre, not saying they won't play together, but Desharnais is not a #1.

I honestly believe we will be right back in the hunt next year, this is not a team that will be going through a long rebuild. We have the talent, it was just a crazy season, with I suspect a lot of crap in the dressing room and distractions everywhere. I like our core, and with the right moves in the off season, I believe we will be fine.

[Blonde Demon]

Moen will be back...

I would say we need a couple of d-man before a number 1 center..We really need to give Price some help back there..Too much traffic in front of him..Eller is not 4th line talent..The kid needs to be in the top 9...If not, top 6 forward position..

[C-Love]

I think our D will be much improved next year, I am banking on Markov being back and Emelin, Diaz and Subban all taking another step forward. Our biggest defensive problems all stem from when Kaberle and Campoli are on the ice. I don't know how much help we'll need back there with our young guys getting better every year.

The reason I think Moen is dispensible is because of White. Every team needs a number 1 centre, we are sorely lacking that. The reason I have Eller as a 4th line centre is because of Pleks, Desharnais and our need for a big centre.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Top needs in order of importance, and assessment of how we might address them:

1. No. 1 defenceman. If Markov returns and stays healthy and is the Markov we remember - three huge 'ifs' - this need can be addressed from within. I am a huge believer in building from the blueline, so it wouldn't trouble me at all if the Habs were to invest in another major defenceman apart from Markov. Were we to channel Gomez's salary to a stud UFA defenceman, for instance, I wouldn't mind one bit.

2. No.1 C. This has been endlessly discussed. Less often noticed is that IF Pleks can return to form, he and Desharnais would constitute a plausible (albeit by no means Cup-worthy) 1-2 punch down the middle. I know everyone is fixated on the big stud C, but we can be a competitive club without one. What it will take is for DD not to regress - he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would- and for Plekanec to rediscover his A-game.

3. No. 1 winger. Unlike the other two positions, I don't see any possibilities here from within. On D, we at least have the hope of Markov coming back and meeting the need. At C, there's at least the hope of a bounce-back from Pleks, or, less probable, even the emergence of Eller. But notice one thing. If we DO go out and somehow acquire a top-tier winger, it will probably contribute hugely to Plekanec regaining his form. A stud winger would thus have the side-effect of helping us at C.

I agree that we have other needs beyond these, but were all three holes to be filled we would probably become contenders. Certainly a strong stay-at-home D-man would help. Not sure we need to think in terms of a big name here. Somebody who could reliably go out and eat minutes while providing a steadying influence - i.e., a Hamrlik-type - is what's needed. The point is that were we to fill the #1 D-man slot (whether with Markov or someone else) the currently glaring holes on our blueline would suddenly look much smaller.

Anyway, one implication of this analysis is that we could get away with only one of either 2 or 3. If we get an all-star winger, that will probably be a huge help to Pleks, which would give us two serviceable offensive C and two good scoring lines. Conversely, if we get an all-star C, we can probably make-do with patchwork on the wing and still be quite competitive. The current defensive configuration is, however, unacceptable; if it's not fixed, we will not be a serious team regardless of what we do at forward.

[SOOPAVILLIN]

As it pertains to Eller and Desharnais, I think the question is which one will be converted to wing, right now it looks like it will be Eller, but both are too good to play 4th line minutes.

[ForumGhost]

I was all for the big center campaign but man, has Desharnais ever come out. He may be small but he can produce. Among centers, he is 18th in the league in scoring, topping the likes of Lecavalier (so glad we didn't trade for him now), Krejci, Kesler, Getzlaf and B. Richards just to name a few. Would rolling with Pleks and DD as top 2 be so bad really? Don't forget that Leblanc is still projected to be a top 6 center as well.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I was all for the big center campaign but man, has Desharnais ever come out. He may be small but he can produce. Among centers, he is 18th in the league in scoring, topping the likes of Lecavalier (so glad we didn't trade for him now), Krejci, Kesler, Getzlaf and B. Richards just to name a few. Would rolling with Pleks and DD as top 2 be so bad really? Don't forget that Leblanc is still projected to be a top 6 center as well.

Holy crap, I didn't realize that.

It kinda reinforces my long post above. We may not in fact need that saviour C everyone is pining for. All we need is for Pleks to play like he can and DD not to regress, provided we get high-quality solutions on the wing and on D.

[Blonde Demon]

Holy crap, I didn't realize that.

It kinda reinforces my long post above. We may not in fact need that saviour C everyone is pining for. All we need is for Pleks to play like he can and DD not to regress, provided we get high-quality solutions on the wing and on D.

Finally someone is opening their eyes..lol

Just for the record, our "top 2" d-man were on the ice for two of the late goals last night, Gorges and PK, so, yeah...

We NEED some size/grit on the blue line 1st and foremost...Markov plays a great positional game, but we need a guy that makes players think twice about screening Price or, at least, a guy that will be physical in that area...

If we sign, say, a Shane O'Brien, we can probably get away with picking Grigorenko, but, IMO, our focus should squarely be on getting some help on the back end...

Why would Price re-sign here knowing he is anchoring a soft BL like this going forward? Get the guy some help, for God sake..lol

Edited March 2, 2012 by Blonde Demon

[C-Love]

I honestly don't believe our D is that bad going forward (this is assuming Markov is back next year) and he looked really good practicing this week. If Markov IS back, then we have he and either Emelin or Gorges eating up a lot of the big PK minutes and #1 pairing mintues and PK can focus more on his offensive side in a game that he is more comfortable with. I realize we do need a top 4 d man but I think that's it. Our guys are young and getting better, I do think this year was an anomally and we will get right back on track next year.

If we have the chance to pick Nail or Mikail and pass on either of them for a defenseman than that will go down as the biggest blunder for a draft since picking Wickenheiser over Savard.

[Blonde Demon]

I honestly don't believe our D is that bad going forward (this is assuming Markov is back next year) and he looked really good practicing this week. If Markov IS back, then we have he and either Emelin or Gorges eating up a lot of the big PK minutes and #1 pairing mintues and PK can focus more on his offensive side in a game that he is more comfortable with. I realize we do need a top 4 d man but I think that's it. Our guys are young and getting better, I do think this year was an anomally and we will get right back on track next year.

If we have the chance to pick Nail or Mikail and pass on either of them for a defenseman than that will go down as the biggest blunder for a draft since picking Wickenheiser over Savard.

IMO, Yakupov could turn out to be a bust simply because of his size..The guy was knocked around in junior and has already had an issue with his knee..Grigorenko for me, IF we pick top 2-3 and he is still there, but after that, if we have, say, the 4-5th overall pick, I want Ryan Murray or Griffin Reinhart..

We won't be getting a chance to land Yakupov, anyway..CLB will have that option and then EDM..

Hypothetical question..If you had the chance to draft Larry Robinson or Denis Savard, who would you take? Easy one for me..

Edited March 2, 2012 by Blonde Demon

[Commandant]

At wing, if Gionta returns next year to the near thirty goal guy we've seen in the past, it will help a lot.  I also think that once you add the center, and Desharnais moves to wing you've added a productive winger in that way.  Sure I'd love to grab a Parise to add to the squad but I still think the needs to address are at C and on D.

Centre via the draft, and D via a free agent who will help today ie one of Jackman, Grossman, Stuart, etc... plus a healthy Markov.

We need a defenceman to help the team Now and play 20+ minutes now, not in 3-5 years.

As for Robinson vs Savard that only works if you can get Larry Robinson, I don't think any Dman in this draft is a Robinson who is one of the best 10 defencemen in history. To me there is a clear separation where the top 2, and maybe 3 (if gally is healthy) forwards in this draft are better than the d.

You've also compared Robinson to Savard who while great is not a top 10 centre of all time while Robinson is a top 10 d. A better way to look at this draft is would you rather have a centre like Pavel Datsyuk or a defenceman like Kimmo Timmonen? Both are number 1s on their team right now, but Datsyuk is just a better player overall.

[Blonde Demon]

I was simply comparing a franchise d-man that has a great 2 way game with a flashy forward that has a lot of skill..

[Commandant]

I was simply comparing a franchise d-man that has a great 2 way game with a flashy forward that has a lot of skill..

sure but compare Robinson to say Beliveau and the question is harder. The issue is Robinson is far superior a player to Denis Savard, I think we all agree on that much. That's even assuming you have a D who is the equal of the forward. I don't think we have that in this draft unless we are saying Murray vs Forsberg. I think the other three forwards are just superior players to Ryan Murray.

[skinnydog]

I have been watching highlights of both Yakapov and Grigorenko and we would be more than happy with either player coming to Montreal next year. My hope is that we beat the leafs on Saturday and then go on a 5 game losing streak again. There is no point in winning games from here on out, but I really don't see this team being that bad next year, we have a bit of work to do in the off-season, but not a whole lot. Once we replace the GM/Coach* (*unfortunately, but that is the reality) we will be stable and begin to move forward, with the way Desharnais, Patches, Emelin, Eller, White and Diaz have been approving this year we are looking really good going forward. This team is not that bad, we just have some real dead weight that we have to get rid of. I can't see a situation where we lose Kaberle which is really unfortunate because if we could we only have a few holes for next year. This is what I see:

Cole (4,500,000) Need a #1 Centre Pacioretty (1,625,000)

Gionta (5,000,000) Desharnais (850,000) Need a #2 winger

Bourque (3,333,333) Plekanec (5,000,000) Geoffrion (1,500,000**)

White (1,000,000 **) Eller (2,000,000**) Staubitz (450,000**)

Markov (5,750,000) Emelin (1,250,000**)

Subban (2,000,000**) Need a top 4 d Man

Diaz (1,250,000**) Gorges (3,900,000)

Price (5,500,000**) Need a back up

** - My assessment as to prospective salaries for next year.

Gone: Gomez, Moen, Darche, Blunden, Nokelainen, Campoli, Kaberle, Budaj

Minors to start year: Weber, Leblanc

I know it's a long shot to get rid of Kaberle, but if we could find a way to unload him along with Gomez we have some serious money to fill the few holes we have. I don't think there is any doubt that we will buy Gomez out, if he can't be shopped, we just can't afford him going towards the cap with Price's raise and the expectation to have Markov off the LTR.

I also realize that Desharnais will probably stay with Patches and Cole, what I am referring to there is that we really need a big #1 Centre, not saying they won't play together, but Desharnais is not a #1.

I honestly believe we will be right back in the hunt next year, this is not a team that will be going through a long rebuild. We have the talent, it was just a crazy season, with I suspect a lot of crap in the dressing room and distractions everywhere. I like our core, and with the right moves in the off season, I believe we will be fine.

I personally would not mess with the Cole/DD/Pac line. It is... and has been our offense all year!

[Commandant]

No guarantee it has the same chemistry next year. Sometimes a line does over the summer, sometimes it doesn't.

Look at Kostitsyn - Pleks - Kovalev in 08 and then in 09 or ryan - getzlaf - perry one of the best lines in the NHL last year and now Ryan can't play with them anymore this year.

[patience is a virtue]

Wow, lots of great debate on this and the 'disgrace' thread.

I generally agree with the CC's priorities above. Markov is, and has long been, the key to the team, along with Price. If The General is no longer it will be tragic. He'll have to be replaced this off season, and that will be no small feat. If he is back for real, then our D is relatively set for a long time to come. All we'll need is a tough UFA 5th dman to hold Tinordi's place for a season. I am also excited about the long-term potential of Dietz as a number 5 or 6 when our top four is PK-Gorges, Emelin-Beaulieu.

Now that the season is lost, I dearly hope we end up in the bottom three or four. One of the Gs at C, or Forsberg, would be sweet. That said, I don't see C as the glaring hole others do. I have total faith in DD as a legit top two C. The guy just keeps proving himself against the odds over and over again. Commandant - you don't seem to have gotten on his bandwagon yet. What will it take?

While I agree that drafting a franchise C would be ideal, the immediate need for next year is a replacement for Cammy. I hope for another suave Cole-like UFA signing by PG. Where can I find a good list of the upcoming UFAs? Are there any likely fits for our top six? Besides AK46, that is

[firejack]

C-Love, I'm sorry but the writing is on the wall, this team will be not much different next year. We've added little to nothing, Price is getting fed up and we have some of the worst contracts in hockey. You would think you were going to be the next GM of this team the way your fantasy reads.

[Commandant]

The problem I'm seeing with DD is that he needs to be put with our two best and biggest wingers to survive and even then, his line was beaten for 3 goals against last night.

I like the guy as a secondary scoring option of the wing, or even as a third centre, but I don't think he's good enough to be your #2. You have to give him both Cole and Pacioretty just so he isn't a liability in those kind of minutes, and it leaves no wingers for plek.

I like

Ufa/bourque - Plek - cole

Patch - G or G - gionta

DD - Eller - bourque or leblanc

For next year, gives every line balance.

Puts our captain with the 18 year old along with Patch we'd hope Patch and G would develop chemistry from day 1 together.

Gives Eller and Plek better wingers than they've had this year.

Let's Desharnais continue to produce while minimizing his defensive issues.

Heres the list of UFAs

http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php

[Commandant]

Names i like bolded even if unrealistic (ie Parise, Doan)

Guys who absolutely totally suck deleted (ie Rolston, Blake)

Semin, Alexander » F WAS 27 $6,700,000 2012 (UFA)

Smyth, Ryan » F EDM 36 $6,250,000 2012 (UFA)

Parise, Zach » F NJD 27 $6,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Huselius, Kristian » F CLB 33 $4,750,000 2012 (UFA)

Doan, Shane » F PHO 35 $4,550,000 2012 (UFA)

Langkow, Daymond » F PHO 35 $4,500,000 2012 (UFA)

Penner, Dustin » F LAK 29 $4,250,000 2012 (UFA)

Selanne, Teemu » F ANA 41 $4,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Boyes, Brad » F BUF 29 $4,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Stoll, Jarret » F LAK 29 $3,600,000 2012 (UFA)

Hecht, Jochen » F BUF 34 $3,525,000 2012 (UFA)

Jagr, Jaromir » F PHI 40 $3,300,000 2012 (UFA)

Kostitsyn, Andrei » F NAS 27 $3,250,000 2012 (UFA)

Kotalik, Ales » F BUF 33 $3,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Jokinen, Olli » F CGY 33 $3,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Hagman, Niklas » F ANA 32 $3,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Whitney, Ray » F PHO 39 $3,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Hejduk, Milan » F COL 36 $3,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Grabovski, Mikhail » F TOR 28 $2,900,000 2012 (UFA)

Arnott, Jason » F STL 37 $2,875,000 2012 (UFA)

Hudler, Jiri » F DET 28 $2,875,000 2012 (UFA)

Langenbrunner, Jamie » F STL 36 $2,750,000 2012 (UFA)

Samuelsson, Mikael » F FLA 35 $2,500,000 2012 (UFA)

Koivu, Saku » F ANA 37 $2,500,000 2012 (UFA)

Jones, David » F COL 27 $2,500,000 2012 (UFA)

Kelly, Chris » F BOS 31 $2,125,000 2012 (UFA)

Brunette, Andrew » F CHI 38 $2,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Knuble, Mike » F WAS 39 $2,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Stempniak, Lee » F CGY 29 $1,900,000 2012 (UFA)

Holmstrom, Tomas » F DET 39 $1,875,000 2012 (UFA)

Ponikarovsky, Alexei » F NJD 31 $1,500,000 2012 (UFA)

Dvorak, Radek » F DAL 34 $1,500,000 2012 (UFA)

Sullivan, Steve » F PIT 37 $1,500,000 2012 (UFA)

Parenteau, Pierre-Alexandre » F NYI 28 $1,250,000 2012 (UFA)

Morrison, Brendan » F CHI 36 $1,250,000 2012 (UFA)

Moore, Dominic » F SAN 31 $1,100,000 2012 (UFA)

Pyatt, Taylor » F PHO 30 $1,000,000 2012 (UFA)

Sykora, Petr » F NJD 35 $650,000 2012 (UFA)

[firejack]

C-Love by the way, the Fail for Nail campain originated on TSN months ago. Way to be original.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

IMO, Yakupov could turn out to be a bust simply because of his size..

Yeah, certainly waiting for Giroux and Eberle to suddenly bust because 5'11" is too short...

Anyway, Montreal needs to start playing Budaj a lot more. I wouldn't mind seeing Budaj get in the 15-20 game range by the end of this season. Play Price to keep him happy but don't play him to win anything. Yak, Grig or Galy. That's the goal.

[Habsy]

If we're selecting top 3, we better not chose a defenseman. Improve the D through free agency, as we've got some developing.

[DON]

C-Love by the way, the Fail for Nail campain originated on TSN months ago. Way to be original.

Good post, very informative and thoughtful.

[Blonde Demon]

Yeah, certainly waiting for Giroux and Eberle to suddenly bust because 5'11" is too short...

Anyway, Montreal needs to start playing Budaj a lot more. I wouldn't mind seeing Budaj get in the 15-20 game range by the end of this season. Play Price to keep him happy but don't play him to win anything. Yak, Grig or Galy. That's the goal.

Geez, way to misinterpret what I was trying to say...Giroux and Eberle have elite skill, that is a given, but they play a bigger game than their size dictates...If scouts believed that those 2 would be the player they are now, then why weren't they picked as top 10 talent? Size..Its a HUGE gamble to take a smaller type of player because they could easily turn out to be a Zach Hamill or a Gilbert Brule, whom were picked much higher than Giroux or Eberle...

[JMMR]

I personally would not mess with the Cole/DD/Pac line. It is... and has been our offense all year!

Read above.

"I also realize that Desharnais will probably stay with Patches and Cole, what I am referring to there is that we really need a big #1 Centre, not saying they won't play together, but Desharnais is not a #1."