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C-Love

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Geez, way to misinterpret what I was trying to say...Giroux and Eberle have elite skill, that is a given, but they play a bigger game than their size dictates...If scouts believed that those 2 would be the player they are now, then why weren't they picked as top 10 talent? Size..Its a HUGE gamble to take a smaller type of player because they could easily turn out to be a Zach Hamill or a Gilbert Brule, whom were picked much higher than Giroux or Eberle...

When the player is 5'11" and going to be first overall in the NHL Entry Draft, and not just because Brian Burke orchestrated taking the Sedins second and third overall, that player tends to become a star who has no issue with his size because he has too much skill to burn.

For every Hamill and Brule there's a Jessiman and Gillies.

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If we're selecting top 3, we better not chose a defenseman. Improve the D through free agency, as we've got some developing.

i agree, unless Habs light it up and end up picking 6 or 7th and Dumba is still available and the big centres are gone, he is about the only top d-man i would find hard not to pick.

But with, Markov-Yemelin, Subban-Gorges, Diaz and Kaberle already, i wouldn't waste much on a 7th d-man like Campoli, especailly with Tinordi/Pateryn/Ellis/Nash/Beaulieu/St.Denis all going to be fighting for first call-up (and yes i do know they all need some time in AHL, but in a limited role and minor minutes all could fit the bill for an injury duration).

Now, a All Star top 6 forward is where the money needs to be spent, through trade/signing on July 1st. A Parise-like player would do wonders. And drafting Galchenyuk/Grigorenko would be perfect fit if have 2nd-5th pick.

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Even with Markov, the Habs need another 20+ minute d-man (Gill wouldn't be bad).

Even with a top 3 NHL-ready pick, the Habs need another first line forward.

And then they can contend for the Cup, I guess.

Markov, the pick, and a decent d-man alone should be enough to make the playoffs next year. I don't think they'll find the first line forward but they'll have quite a bit of depth and quite a bit of youth. For a 28th overall team, the Habs have a lot of pieces to work with. They definitely have a shot to rebound into the playoffs next year. This season will have been worth it if it brings the Habs a franchise forward.

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The Habs def

Even with Markov, the Habs need another 20+ minute d-man (Gill wouldn't be bad).

Even with a top 3 NHL-ready pick, the Habs need another first line forward.

And then they can contend for the Cup, I guess.

Markov, the pick, and a decent d-man alone should be enough to make the playoffs next year. I don't think they'll find the first line forward but they'll have quite a bit of depth and quite a bit of youth. For a 28th overall team, the Habs have a lot of pieces to work with. They definitely have a shot to rebound into the playoffs next year. This season will have been worth it if it brings the Habs a franchise forward.

Agreed we need another 20 minute D; but we dont need an 18 year old D

Gill wasnt adequate as a 20 minute guy this year though, he's a 5/6 now who is great on the PK and steps up in the playoffs but hes not gonna give you 20 minutes for 82 games.

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The problem I'm seeing with DD is that he needs to be put with our two best and biggest wingers to survive and even then, his line was beaten for 3 goals against last night.

I like the guy as a secondary scoring option of the wing, or even as a third centre, but I don't think he's good enough to be your #2. You have to give him both Cole and Pacioretty just so he isn't a liability in those kind of minutes, and it leaves no wingers for plek.

I like

Ufa/bourque - Plek - cole

Patch - G or G - gionta

DD - Eller - bourque or leblanc

For next year, gives every line balance.

Puts our captain with the 18 year old along with Patch we'd hope Patch and G would develop chemistry from day 1 together.

Gives Eller and Plek better wingers than they've had this year.

Let's Desharnais continue to produce while minimizing his defensive issues.

Heres the list of UFAs

http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php

I could be mistaken, and I'm not even going to try and act like I know as much as you, but I don't think DD was the one responsible for those goals. Again I could be wrong, but on two of them the first person I thought screwed up was Georges. He was floppin around all night.

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I could be mistaken, and I'm not even going to try and act like I know as much as you, but I don't think DD was the one responsible for those goals. Again I could be wrong, but on two of them the first person I thought screwed up was Georges. He was floppin around all night.

You are correct in that the final mistake on at least two of the goals is Gorges. No doubt about that.

But the big thing with the goals is they are all set up by Minny's cycle game and sustained pressure. DD just cant contain big fwds down low, and so all year we've watched big fwds cycle endlessly until someone eventually loses their coverage like Gorges did and teams pick us apart. DD is one of the causes of the endless cycles. Needing another 2 top 4 dmen is another concern.

The best thing to compare it to is football. The longer the QB can wait in the pocket to make the throw with no pressure eventually one of his receivers will get open.

Same thing with the Habs right now, DD helping down low doesnt knock his man off the puck. Weber, Campoli, Kaberle cant knock guys off the puck and big fwds just cycle until someone eventually gets free in front of the net.

Tons of teams are killing us this way, but the most glaring example all year was the game against St. Louis post all star break.

DD on the wing doesnt hurt as much because he's no longer charged with containing a fwd and knocking him off the puck. His job becomes intercepting the pass to the point.

Now again DD isnt the full solution here, we also need to ditch Campoli and Weber and add Markov (who is great at pokechecks to strip the cycling fwd of the puck) and a physical D who can put someone into the boards or onto their ass. Then you'll have 5d who are good at shutting this down and you can use Kaberle properly.

Markov - Gorges/ufa

Gorges/ufa - Subban

kaberle - Emelin

Diaz

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You are correct in that the final mistake on at least two of the goals is Gorges. No doubt about that.

But the big thing with the goals is they are all set up by Minny's cycle game and sustained pressure. DD just cant contain big fwds down low, and so all year we've watched big fwds cycle endlessly until someone eventually loses their coverage like Gorges did and teams pick us apart. DD is one of the causes of the endless cycles. Needing another 2 top 4 dmen is another concern.

The best thing to compare it to is football. The longer the QB can wait in the pocket to make the throw with no pressure eventually one of his receivers will get open.

Same thing with the Habs right now, DD helping down low doesnt knock his man off the puck. Weber, Campoli, Kaberle cant knock guys off the puck and big fwds just cycle until someone eventually gets free in front of the net.

Tons of teams are killing us this way, but the most glaring example all year was the game against St. Louis post all star break.

DD on the wing doesnt hurt as much because he's no longer charged with containing a fwd and knocking him off the puck. His job becomes intercepting the pass to the point.

Now again DD isnt the full solution here, we also need to ditch Campoli and Weber and add Markov (who is great at pokechecks to strip the cycling fwd of the puck) and a physical D who can put someone into the boards or onto their ass. Then you'll have 5d who are good at shutting this down and you can use Kaberle properly.

Markov - Gorges/ufa

Gorges/ufa - Subban

kaberle - Emelin

Diaz

Excellent analysis, Commandant :thumbs_up:

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Don't forget that our last two 1st rounders have been defensemen. Tinordi, who fits the bill of a top 4 physical guy with (massive) size will play in Hamilton next year and could be on the Habs if he adjusts to pro hockey well. I'm not sure where Beaulieu is playing next year but when he eventually does join the Habs, there is no reason not to believe he will be a good top four 2-way defender. He looked real, real good in training camp, for those who remember. Along with Subban, Gorges and Emelin, all of whom I expect will be with us long term, our defense is looking pretty darn good, even after the departure of Markov. If teams aren't afraid to play against our defense now, wait until they are staring down 12'10 feet and 430 lbs worth of defensemen in a Tinordi and Emelin shut-down pair.

As for the forward situation, don't forget Gallagher who looked real impressive in camp. I could honestly see him starting next year with the Habs. Maybe begin on the 3rd line but will be the first to move into the top 6 if circumstances allow.

Top 3 pick with a slew of young talent in the system? I'm more excited to be a Habs fan than I have been in a while...

Getting a possible franchise player in this years draft to push us over the top will cause people years from now to look back and say "man, remember 2012? Thank God we tanked so badly."

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Don't forget that our last two 1st rounders have been defensemen. Tinordi, who fits the bill of a top 4 physical guy with (massive) size will play in Hamilton next year and could be on the Habs if he adjusts to pro hockey well. I'm not sure where Beaulieu is playing next year but when he eventually does join the Habs, there is no reason not to believe he will be a good top four 2-way defender. He looked real, real good in training camp, for those who remember. Along with Subban, Gorges and Emelin, all of whom I expect will be with us long term, our defense is looking pretty darn good, even after the departure of Markov. If teams aren't afraid to play against our defense now, wait until they are staring down 12'10 feet and 430 lbs worth of defensemen in a Tinordi and Emelin shut-down pair.

As for the forward situation, don't forget Gallagher who looked real impressive in camp. I could honestly see him starting next year with the Habs. Maybe begin on the 3rd line but will be the first to move into the top 6 if circumstances allow.

Top 3 pick with a slew of young talent in the system? I'm more excited to be a Habs fan than I have been in a while...

Getting a possible franchise player in this years draft to push us over the top will cause people years from now to look back and say "man, remember 2012? Thank God we tanked so badly."

The issue to me is less what we've got in the system than what will tide us over for the next 2-3 years. None of the defencemen currently in the system are going to be big minutes-eaters within the next two years. Gallagher maybe has an outside chance of making an impact within that span. Youth takes a while to develop at the NHL level. The longer-term future looks great (but then again we've been saying that for the last decade; people always tend to overrate prospects, the birds in the bush always seeming better than the one in the hand); we need help in the medium term, however.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I meant to add: a lot of the mental energy invested in arguing over which *position* our top pick should be strikes me as a bit much. If we bag a top-3 pick, whoever we pick will almost certainly be an absolute horse and possibly a franchise player. I don't care what positions he plays (as long as it's not goal!). We really can't go wrong. If we end up with a surplus of talent at (say) D, well, we can always trade for help elsewhere.

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The longer-term future looks great

This is pretty much my point. I don't expect us to jump into contention next season (although if you know me you know i'm an optimist), but we have a very solid base to build on in the next few years. Even if not all of our prospects hit their potential, we have enough exciting ones that statistically speaking, at least a few will come out as impact players. Leblanc, Gallagher, Kristo, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Holland... Added to that the guys who are young enough to be part of the core when these guys are maturing: Gorges, Subban, Pacioretty, Pleks, Price, Eller, Desharnais, Emelin... Plus the aforementioned impact player from this year's draft.

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This is pretty much my point. I don't expect us to jump into contention next season (although if you know me you know i'm an optimist), but we have a very solid base to build on in the next few years.

Hence why I believe we should not attempt some one season turnaround and hope for Nathan Mackinnon next season. Though Markov being healthy probably makes that impossible.

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As for the next 2-3 years, I'll just say what has been echoed all season long: we have a team that is better than our record suggests. Aside from the obvious coaching and management blunders, which I believe to be the biggest reason for our failure, injuries have played a huge part, Markov being the prime example. I know you can't blame the injury of one player for a whole season, but it's worth noting that when he was healthy he was considered our best, if not our most key, player, aside from Price. The stumble out of the gate killed the confidence of the team, and with the continued injuries and coaching circus, it could never be recovered. What the team needs is a fresh start. a blank slate. With a new coach, some off-season tunnings (hopefully without the black hole contract/play of Scott Gomez) and a healthy roster. I wholeheartedly believe we will challenge for a playoff spot next year.

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Seriously, Markov is that important. Unless the Bruins can wrap up a guy like Ryan Suter, the day Chara retires is the day they fall fast. Markov was unquestionably top 10 in the league for D-men, probably top 5 due to his importance to the club. Subban might one day become a guy like Markov, but he likely won't be there for another three years if he ever becomes it.

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As for the next 2-3 years, I'll just say what has been echoed all season long: we have a team that is better than our record suggests. Aside from the obvious coaching and management blunders, which I believe to be the biggest reason for our failure, injuries have played a huge part, Markov being the prime example. I know you can't blame the injury of one player for a whole season, but it's worth noting that when he was healthy he was considered our best, if not our most key, player, aside from Price. The stumble out of the gate killed the confidence of the team, and with the continued injuries and coaching circus, it could never be recovered. What the team needs is a fresh start. a blank slate. With a new coach, some off-season tunnings (hopefully without the black hole contract/play of Scott Gomez) and a healthy roster. I wholeheartedly believe we will challenge for a playoff spot next year.

completely agree

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As for the next 2-3 years, I'll just say what has been echoed all season long: we have a team that is better than our record suggests. Aside from the obvious coaching and management blunders, which I believe to be the biggest reason for our failure, injuries have played a huge part, Markov being the prime example. I know you can't blame the injury of one player for a whole season, but it's worth noting that when he was healthy he was considered our best, if not our most key, player, aside from Price. The stumble out of the gate killed the confidence of the team, and with the continued injuries and coaching circus, it could never be recovered. What the team needs is a fresh start. a blank slate. With a new coach, some off-season tunnings (hopefully without the black hole contract/play of Scott Gomez) and a healthy roster. I wholeheartedly believe we will challenge for a playoff spot next year.

I have to agree we have had 0 luck with injuries this year and it has played a huge part in our lack of success. Then toss in the fact we just don't have the depth at the AHL level this year (subban, desharnais, white, pacioretty) and management just causing unnecessary distractions left and right and you have what equates to a season like we are having.

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The issue to me is less what we've got in the system than what will tide us over for the next 2-3 years. None of the defencemen currently in the system are going to be big minutes-eaters within the next two years. Gallagher maybe has an outside chance of making an impact within that span. Youth takes a while to develop at the NHL level. The longer-term future looks great (but then again we've been saying that for the last decade; people always tend to overrate prospects, the birds in the bush always seeming better than the one in the hand); we need help in the medium term, however.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I meant to add: a lot of the mental energy invested in arguing over which *position* our top pick should be strikes me as a bit much. If we bag a top-3 pick, whoever we pick will almost certainly be an absolute horse and possibly a franchise player. I don't care what positions he plays (as long as it's not goal!). We really can't go wrong. If we end up with a surplus of talent at (say) D, well, we can always trade for help elsewhere.

Who would of guessed both Yemelin and Diaz would step in and play as well as they have? And with the quality of d-men moving to Hamilton next fall, why is it a stretch to see Tinordi/Ellis or Beaulieu playing 20 minutes/games in 2013-14? And i would guess at least one of them will get a crack for injury call-up.

I agree that many tend to overrate prospects and i am one of the worst, but as far as the d-core goes i have zero worries for short-mid or long term.

Up front has been and is by far the weakest part of team (as Kamal P. pointed out, 17 of Prices 25 losses, Habs had 1 or zero goals) and why strictly a forward should be taken in top 5 and only if Habs have a lower pick would i take Dumba; only cause i see a slightly better Subban there, in almost every aspect of his game, such as; skating, shooting, hitting, decision making, but Dumba does have same defensive lapses, but he also is only 17 and i got a feeling he (being an Albertan) or Murray will be taken by Oilers at #2. But what do i know, i am not a scout, just my best guess

As far as franchise players, Yakupov may be it for this draft?, if strictly looking at forwards, but Galchenyuk/Forsberg and couple others should be super players, not likely Stamkos or Malkin (franchise) good, but as good as a Mark Savard/Patrice Bergeron/Bobby Ryan type we hope and one who could possibly make the jump right from CHL/SEL to NHL after next season?

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I agree with your analysis, and I think we're on the same page, I just think we are using different words. Franchise talent to me means someone you build around.

My definitions:

Generational talent is a crosby and there are none of those in this draft.

Superstars are Malkin and Stamkos and that *might* be Yakupov but he's the only guy at that level.

Gally/Grigorenko are *potentials* to be in the class of franchise players that are made up of the Toews, Thornton, the Sedins, the Getzlaf/Perrys, Rick Nash, Iginla, etc of the NHL just a step below but players you can build around.

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I'd argue that Malkin is a franchise - generational player. When all is said and done he may have the best career from Crosby, ovechkin. I'd rank Malkin much higher then stamkos.

I agree with your analysis, and I think we're on the same page, I just think we are using different words. Franchise talent to me means someone you build around.

My definitions:

Generational talent is a crosby and there are none of those in this draft.

Superstars are Malkin and Stamkos and that *might* be Yakupov but he's the only guy at that level.

Gally/Grigorenko are *potentials* to be in the class of franchise players that are made up of the Toews, Thornton, the Sedins, the Getzlaf/Perrys, Rick Nash, Iginla, etc of the NHL just a step below but players you can build around.

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I would argue Stamkos is easily in the league of Malkin and perhaps Crosby. Crosby may be a more complete player overall but Stamkos is the better pure sniper.

As has been said, no one on that level appears to be in this draft, but I expect Yakupov a franchise-reviving talent for Columbus. They will be rebuilding yet again, but with likely a huge return coming back for Nash, probably in high picks and/or star prospects, they should be able to have a strong core in place in a few years.

I'm wondering who Edmonton will go for if they go 2nd. The BPA will probably be Grigerenko, but they need help on the back end way more than the front. They have been drafting forwards almost exclusively and you would think they are aiming to contend sooner rather than later. If I was Edmonton, I would definitely looking at defenseman first.

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I would argue Stamkos is easily in the league of Malkin and perhaps Crosby. Crosby may be a more complete player overall but Stamkos is the better pure sniper.

As has been said, no one on that level appears to be in this draft, but I expect Yakupov a franchise-reviving talent for Columbus. They will be rebuilding yet again, but with likely a huge return coming back for Nash, probably in high picks and/or star prospects, they should be able to have a strong core in place in a few years.

I'm wondering who Edmonton will go for if they go 2nd. The BPA will probably be Grigerenko, but they need help on the back end way more than the front. They have been drafting forwards almost exclusively and you would think they are aiming to contend sooner rather than later. If I was Edmonton, I would definitely looking at defenseman first.

Some people at another website are not convinced that Yakupov will be better than Huberdeau, but having seen both players I prefer Yakupov. He can have that, "I'm better than anyone on the ice right now" shift that makes him special.

As for the Oilers, if they do get the 2nd Overall Pick, they'll trade down. If they get 3rd Overall, they'll select a D-man.

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I would argue Stamkos is easily in the league of Malkin and perhaps Crosby. Crosby may be a more complete player overall but Stamkos is the better pure sniper.

As has been said, no one on that level appears to be in this draft, but I expect Yakupov a franchise-reviving talent for Columbus. They will be rebuilding yet again, but with likely a huge return coming back for Nash, probably in high picks and/or star prospects, they should be able to have a strong core in place in a few years.

I'm wondering who Edmonton will go for if they go 2nd. The BPA will probably be Grigerenko, but they need help on the back end way more than the front. They have been drafting forwards almost exclusively and you would think they are aiming to contend sooner rather than later. If I was Edmonton, I would definitely looking at defenseman first.

I rank Malkin over Stamkos. He is amazing everywhere on the ice. Stamkos is a shooter.

I think if I was Tambelini, I would consider trading my first round pick for a high end defenseman or centre. They need to start winning and waiting for a defenseman to develope will not help them for 2 or 3 years.

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I rank Malkin over Stamkos. He is amazing everywhere on the ice. Stamkos is a shooter.

I think if I was Tambelini, I would consider trading my first round pick for a high end defenseman or centre. They need to start winning and waiting for a defenseman to develope will not help them for 2 or 3 years.

Agree on both counts. I expect that is exactly what the Oilers will try to do - for a dman. The question is who is going to give up a Subban-like talent for a shot at one of the Gs, who may, hopefully, pan out?

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I wouldn't assume that drafting a D is such a slam dunk for the Oilers if they are picking at #2.

At last years draft they got Klefbom at 19th overall, who is a hell of a prospect. He was a WJC all-star this year for the gold medal Swedish team. They also took Musil at 31st overall (not quite, but basically a first rounder and traded for Teubert. That's pretty much three first rounders added. Then you have Ryan Whitney, Smid, Peckham and Petry who are all younger D and in the NHL.

If they think Grigo is the BPA, they might go centre, and set up a 1-2 punch down the middle. Despite Gagner's 8 pt night, I'm not sure they believe in him, and let's not forget he has been heavily involved in trade rumors.

In a defence heavy draft they'll have the opportunity to get another D at 31st overall too (new jersey will forfeit their first rounder).

I have no doubt they'd like a D and Ryan murray and Matt dumba as Alberta boys are attractive, but its no sure thing here.

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