sakiqc Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The next Québec-Montréal rivalry will be so much better! With all the incestious moves of the past decade, there will be lots of emotion behind the rivalry. Just imagine Jacques Martin and Pierre Gauthier going back from Montreal to Québec, and Roy coming back from Quebec to Montreal If Patrick Roy ends up stumped by the Canadiens, just imagine the rivalry if he's GM+HC of the Nordiques Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Finding out Gainey was turfed too just made my day; getting closer to being able to take the proverbial bag off of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 An observation; looking at other forums and TSN's comments under the firing article, it would appear that Leafs fans are begrudgingly showing Montreal a lot of respect for the policy that if you fail here...even if it's just one disasterous year...you are fired. They are wishing MLE would do the same and can Brian Burke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I was fine with all of those moves. We did fit them all under the cap. Which prospects did we sacrifice? We fit them under the cap, but it handcuffed the team going forward. The repercussions of which are still being felt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Not a fan of Brisebois... if you are clearing out the old management team, he shouldn't be brought in. He was the capologist who examined all the moves in 2009 including Gomez's contract, and was part of that decision. Not the GM, that was Gainey and he gets the most blame, but what was Brisebois' position on trading for Gomez, signing Cammy, Gionta, and Spacek, and how it would all play out under the cap? Plus as we've seen from dlblair, he wasn't the best at even managing the day to day cap concerns. Assistants work under the direction of their boss. It is silly to blame Brisebois for those moves that only affected the NHL roster. We're going to disqualify anyone that worked under Bob Gainey as well as everyone who doesn't speak French... boy, what a great talent pool we're working from. He was GM of Hamilton. He is GM of Norfolk, one of the hottest non-NHL teams on the planet. He is involved at least a little in all the decisions for the AHL rosters of those teams. Both were good to great teams with good coaching staffs. Brisebois has all the appearances of being the best man for this job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 That wasn't Brisebois fitting players under the cap. That was Gainey. Again, when have the Canadiens ever been handicapped from making moves aside from this season when Gauthier decided to fill out player limit? The summer we traded Halak. We were handcuffed to the point we couldn't sign Dominic Moore for 1.1 million we had to take Halpern at 600K instead. We were that tight against the cap that every penny counted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 We fit them under the cap, but it handcuffed the team going forward. The repercussions of which are still being felt. This will be the final year of those overages thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Assistants work under the direction of their boss. It is silly to blame Brisebois for those moves that only affected the NHL roster. We're going to disqualify anyone that worked under Bob Gainey as well as everyone who doesn't speak French... boy, what a great talent pool we're working from. He was GM of Hamilton. He is GM of Norfolk, one of the hottest non-NHL teams on the planet. He is involved at least a little in all the decisions for the AHL rosters of those teams. Both were good to great teams with good coaching staffs. Brisebois has all the appearances of being the best man for this job. GMs of AHL teams do little other than process the paperwork for the callups and send downs that the GM of the main club asks for. Even then Brisebois screwed that up in the case of a callup of Ryan White two years ago, causing the Habs to have an ineligible player dressed and be fined a hefty amount by the league. The GM experience Patrick Roy has gotten in the QMJHL where he makes actual decisions on trades, draft picks, etc... is far superior to being the GM of the Hamilton Bulldogs or the Norfolk Admirals. Its a symbolic title and a paper pushing position for an assistant GM. His assistant GM experience has some merit.... how well the AHL clubs do because "he's the AHL GM" means nothing to me. Even the NHL GM is the guy making the decision on who will be the AHL coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The summer we traded Halak. We were handcuffed to the point we couldn't sign Dominic Moore for 1.1 million we had to take Halpern at 600K instead. We were that tight against the cap that every penny counted. You surely have to find the comedy in you agreeing in one thread that a good GM can make any decision regardless of cap but in arguing against BriseBois, the guy who didn't even make the final contract decisions, that Montreal was handicapped from signing players. If we wanted Moore, we would have made room for Moore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You surely have to find the comedy in you agreeing in one thread that a good GM can make any decision regardless of cap but in arguing against BriseBois, the guy who didn't even make the final contract decisions, that Montreal was handicapped from signing players. If we wanted Moore, we would have made room for Moore. We did make room that year... The room we made was for Plekanec who was a higher priority. Brisebois has made a ton of screwups that are directly attributable to him with the 5:00pm rule, and I'm sure dlblair can list those for us; we also had the Ryan White screwup. We've decided to clean house on the Gainey/Gauthier regime and sweep away the remnants of that... Gainey is gone from a position of power, Gauthier will be a scout again till his contract expires (probably)... why bring in the guy who was the underling and part of the decision process of both guys. What has he done? He went to Tampa to be with Yzerman? That team is barely ahead of us in the standings. If we are gonna go new blood, go for NEW BLOOD, not Brisebois. The stepping down of Gainey today tells me that the organization wants a complete break with the last regime. So let it be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Timmins and the Amateur Scouts are not changing at this time, but will be up to the new GM when he comes in. - Molson on Team 990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Timmins and the Amateur Scouts are not changing at this time, but will be up to the new GM when he comes in. - Molson on Team 990 I don't know why a new gm would touch the most effective scouting system in the league :/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Brisebois was already out the door when Moore became a UFA. This whole argument is bizarre. AHL GM's most definitely make decisions for their clubs. They are under the direction of the big club for callups and what not, but they definitely have a say in scouting other AHL talent and advise on roster moves that will affect their team. Brisebois has to get at least partial credit for signing Mathieu Darche, for example. Just as he gets credit for Tampa acquiring Cedrick Desjardins. I'm not sure if he should get any credit for Desharnais or St. Denis, those were likely in Timmins' responsibilities as the head of amateur scouting, but acquiring quality AHL talent is definitely under the scope of the AHL GM. As is hiring staff for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Larry Carrière leaves the bench and return to asst-GM role, in a more expanded role (draft preparation) Pierre Groulx will be behind the bench for the last 5 games, replacing Carrière [/quotE] hell yoopee could be behind the bench for all the difference it makes now, be a lot more entertaining thats for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Brisebois was already out the door when Moore became a UFA. This whole argument is bizarre. The cap moves made when Brisebois was the capologist, didn't disappear when he left. As I said, we're still feeling them today. AHL GM's most definitely make decisions for their clubs. They are under the direction of the big club for callups and what not, but they definitely have a say in scouting other AHL talent and advise on roster moves that will affect their team. Brisebois has to get at least partial credit for signing Mathieu Darche, for example. Just as he gets credit for Tampa acquiring Cedrick Desjardins. I'm not sure if he should get any credit for Desharnais or St. Denis, those were likely in Timmins' responsibilities as the head of amateur scouting, but acquiring quality AHL talent is definitely under the scope of the AHL GM. As is hiring staff for the team. Mathieu Darche played under Guy Boucher at McGill, who gets credit for that is very much up in the air. Who do you think knew Darche best. Desjardins has done nothing of note and was let go by Tampa after one year. Also the NHL GM is going to have a huge say in who his third string (aka AHL starting goalie) is going to be, I don't know how much of that is on Brisebois. I really think the work put in by a CHL GM is far, far more than the work put in by the AHL guy. The NHL GM is all over the entire 50 man reserve list, thats gonna be the great majority of your AHL club. Hell even guys like Dame Malka or DeSimone who were signed after their tryouts to AHL only deals, are in Montreal because Gauthier brought them to the main camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm excited about the future. Pierre Gauthier will not be missed, just like Jacques Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehjay Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I don't know why a new gm would touch the most effective scouting system in the league :/ +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm excited about the future. Pierre Gauthier will not be missed, just like Jacques Martin. I miss having a competent head coach. I'll stop missing Martin once we bring in a competent head coach again. Edit: Commandant, I could go into a big debate but I feel you're just sticking to a point here and unwilling to waver on it. So I'll just say this: Slick Nick agrees with you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The biggest part of my point, bigger than the Gomez thing, is that this team needs a fresh start top to bottom... and Brisebois just would feel like another guy who grew up in the same organization that is being shitcanned right now. The only guys who should stay are Timmins and his staff. Out with the Coaches, out with the AHL coaches, out with all of that. On another note, if San Jose misses the playoffs, I could see Doug Wilson looking for work. He's from Ottawa, born and raised. Does he speak French? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The biggest part of my point, bigger than the Gomez thing, is that this team needs a fresh start top to bottom... and Brisebois just would feel like another guy who grew up in the same organization that is being shitcanned right now. The only guys who should stay are Timmins and his staff. Out with the Coaches, out with the AHL coaches, out with all of that. On another note, if San Jose misses the playoffs, I could see Doug Wilson looking for work. He's from Ottawa, born and raised. Does he speak French? I agree with the specific claim that it's time for a fresh start, not more of the same Gainey-Gauthier crew. Of course, whether this gut feeling can be rationally defended is another matter. But psychologically it really does seem to be time to get some serious fresh blood in here. That Molson made sure to dispose of Gainey for the GM search indicates he thinks the same way; wouldn't even allow the old guard a say in the process. Gauthier, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Bob Gainey, I am sorry that it ended like this. And I just feel that fans should be a little more gracious to this guy (as they should have been to Martin) rather than gleefully cackling at his departure. Despite the disappointments of his tenure as GM (which brought highs as well as lows, it should be remembered) Gainey is a dyed-in the wool Montreal Canadien great and should always be treated with the respect and admiration he has earned by his lifetime of service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Let's not fight. This is a day for celebrations and good cheer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Let's not fight. This is a day for celebrations and good cheer. Don't worry brobin, it's always hugs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm just really excited to see where we will go as an organization, we have the opportunity to draft a super star into our organization, which we haven't had in a long time (Price is the closest thing we've had). We also have the opportunity to set the direction of our team with a new gm, coach and a fresh start, hopefully losing the ball and chain Gomez contract. I like the direction Gauthier was taking, the moves he made have made us a bigger team while not losing out signature foot speed, but I am really looking forward to seeing someone new step into the management shoes, give us a solid image and bring us to the top of the league! Cheers to the future boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 16 wins in 45 games since he was fired as coach. That turned out to be a great decision. This team was headed no where with him in charge. He had his time to bring in the players that suited his style and he failed. Cunneyworth with no NHL experience was put in a no win situation. Yes his record was poor. Yes and probably JM might of done a better job. JM is not the man for the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 This team was headed no where with him in charge. He had his time to bring in the players that suited his style and he failed. Cunneyworth with no NHL experience was put in a no win situation. Yes his record was poor. Yes and probably JM might of done a better job. JM is not the man for the Habs. Agreed, it didn't work out with Cunnyworth, but something had to be done imo. JM obviously was at odds with the players and the season was going no where. We are in a better position being lower in the standings anyway, this offers a perfect chance for us to re-frame our organization. Plus Gauthier throwing Cunny under the bus couldn't have helped his confidence as a coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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