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sakiqc

2012 NHL Playoffs Thread

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Keeping those two in the press box for one game was fine. The second was overkill. And they get shutout. If I'm a player on that team, I'm furious with the coach and GM. In a round about way, Barry Trotz penalized the rest of the team by not icing the best possible line up. Ok coach, you proved your point, now let's go golfing.

It was player leadership who spoke with Trotz and agreed that it would be best to leave them out another game, since they won 2-0 without them.

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It was player leadership who spoke with Trotz and agreed that it would be best to leave them out another game, since they won 2-0 without them.

snubbed by the teammates... ouch

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They lost game 1 and game 2 with both those guys in the lineup. The two players combined had 1 shot on net, in two games.

Why do we assume they would have won game 4 if they dressed them?

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snubbed by the teammates... ouch

Of course. Think how their teammates feel. These are guys who have given blood, sweat and tears for each other, all year since September. And these two guys come in, one at the deadline, and one even later than that, and how do they act? Do they integrate into team culture, put their own bodies on the line, and start working their asses off like Hal Gill? No, they go out drinking past 4am just 13 hours before a playoff game. If I was Weber, Suter, Fischer, Legwand etc... I'd say ###### these guys too.

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Well, St. Louis really missed Halak. The reason I was so high on them was because they had a great tandem. If one guy struggled, they could come back with the other guy. We all know what Halak is capable of in the playoffs, but it seems once he was out, Elliott struggled and the team lost some of their confidence. Its really too bad, but they are a young team and overcoming adversity is something many great teams struggle with on the way up the ladder.

If LA goes all the way to the cup, bringing in Sutter will look genius.

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They lost game 1 and game 2 with both those guys in the lineup. The two players combined had 1 shot on net, in two games.

Why do we assume they would have won game 4 if they dressed them?

So you'd package Radulov and Kostitstyn together in a deal for Halischuk and Tootoo? What a trade that would be.

It's not about assuming the Predators would have won game 4. It's about realizing you're not icing the best team possible once the point had already been made. I cannot possibly imagine the core veterans of the team specifically going up to Trotz and saying "we don't want these guys in the lineup". Trotz had already said himself, prior to game 3, that they may sit out game 4 as well. I'm almost certain it went more like "Trotz: We're thinking about sitting the two guys out for the next game as well, how do you feel about that? Players: Sure coach, whatever you say coach." Okay, a bit exaggerated, but still something along those lines.

They won game 3 without them. That's when you have to realize that everything went according to plan and the team fought hard despite the absence of two offensive players. In addition, Radulov and Kostitsyn would likely come back with some fire in their bellies for game 4. Sitting them out the extra game is just misguided judgement and the team is paying for it now.

http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary

Take a look for yourself whether or not you think the team needs them. Also, your statement that they only had 1 shot in 2 games is off base. Kostitsyn had 2 goals (1 goal in each of the first 2 games) and 3 shots in the first two games in Phoenix. Yes, Kostitsyn scored the game after being out past curfew.

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http://insidesmashville.com/2012/05/01/weber-suter-respond-to-benching-of-teammates/

“As a leadership group' date=' we talked with Trotz. We said [to him'] whatever you decide, we will stand by you. We’re in the playoffs, and we don’t need distractions. Tomorrow, we have to clear our minds and get back to play,” defenseman Ryan Suter said.

When asked specifically if Suter agreed with the decision to sit the players, he responded “in some ways, yeah.”

“Everyone needs to be held to the same standards' date=' and I think that’s good. I think that everyone in here knows what the rules are, and we’re just going to move forward. We’re focused on the game tomorrow. We dug ourselves a hole, and we have to find a way to get out of it,” he said.[/quote']

Sounds like two guys who really wanted them in the lineup.

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There's not much to be gained in attacking Trotz's decision after the loss. Anybody can look through the rearview mirror. The tough part was deciding what to do before game 4. I thought about it myself, between those two games, and immediately saw how tough a call it was. Trotz went with the group that had put together any excellent season before these two talented drunks were added to the roster and I can completely understand the decision to go with cohesion and chemistry rather than talented unprofessionalism. It didn't work out, but it was a reasonable choice, and as Commandant says, there's no guarantee that the Preds would have won even with those two guys. Certainly Kostitsyn, anyway, has never been a difference maker in his life.

I'll be interested to see if Kosty's hijinks cost him on the UFA market this summer. They pretty much exposed him, to my mind, as a guy who just doesn't care - answering the long-standing question of whether his constant inability to use his gifts to their fullest extent is a result of an attitude problem or something else (like lack of confidence, injury, or just needing time to put it all together).

Despite the proven stupidity of NHL GMs, I suspect this stunt will cost Kostitsyn, in that it will remove a good number of teams from the competition for his services. I would expect the remaining team to either be struggling franchises desperate for talent and willing to turn a blind eye to questions of character, or elite teams like Vancouver, Boston or Detroit that tend to have faith that their internal leadership is strong enough to trasmute assholes into committed professionals. The broad mass of NHL teams may well stay away unless they can sign him at cut-rates.

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I'm aware that you're not specifically targeting me but since I was the one who brought the topic up, I did mention in my initial post that I understand that hindsight is 20/20. I too, thought about the situation prior to game 4 and came to a different conclusion than yourself. While I will admit that this would likely have not become an issue had they won game 4, that's somewhat besides the point. The fact remains that Trotz put himself in a lose-lose position. He demonstrated that he was basically waiting for his team to lose before putting Radulov and Kostitsyn back into the lineup. If that's all it took to put those two players back in the lineup, then the purpose of leaving them out had very little to do with the initial point. Classifying them as "talented drunks" is an ignorant thing to do and based on nothing more than speculation. Of course they were drunk, but to what extent is up in the air. It can easily be argued with this type of speculation that other players were just as drunk that evening and still awake at 4am, they just returned to their hotel room on time. Kostitsyn may never have been a difference maker but he ended the series with the most goals of any player on Nashville, despite missing two games. In addition, he scored a goal the game after the incident.

I completely agree that it demonstrates a lack of commitment and appreciation for the team and its rules. That's why suspending them for one game was a smart decision on the organization's part. The mistake was in prolonging their absence from the team. Once the point was made, and it WAS, the coach's obligation in the playoffs is to ice the best team possible. If this were the regular season, I would be on the same side as both you and Commandant but the playoffs are a whole different story. Nashville had a great team this year and despite your comments about the two additions, part of the reason they became favorites in the west came as a consequence of these two acquisitions. Good teams do not come around very often, and this was one of Nashville's best chances to go on a long run in their short history. Imagine two years ago hearing a story that Cammalleri and Kostitsyn were out partying past the team's curfew. As a result, the Canadiens kept them both out of two games against Pittsburgh. There certainly would have been an uproar throughout our fanbase. In addition, there would have been a personal displeasure of mine PRIOR to the second game they sat out. If we disagree on this point, then we simply disagree. I can understand the other side of the coin here, I just do not agree with it. It has very little to do with the actual outcome of game 4.

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I'm aware that you're not specifically targeting me but since I was the one who brought the topic up, I did mention in my initial post that I understand that hindsight is 20/20. I too, thought about the situation prior to game 4 and came to a different conclusion than yourself. While I will admit that this would likely have not become an issue had they won game 4, that's somewhat besides the point. The fact remains that Trotz put himself in a lose-lose position. He demonstrated that he was basically waiting for his team to lose before putting Radulov and Kostitsyn back into the lineup. If that's all it took to put those two players back in the lineup, then the purpose of leaving them out had very little to do with the initial point. Classifying them as "talented drunks" is an ignorant thing to do and based on nothing more than speculation. Of course they were drunk, but to what extent is up in the air. It can easily be argued with this type of speculation that other players were just as drunk that evening and still awake at 4am, they just returned to their hotel room on time. Kostitsyn may never have been a difference maker but he ended the series with the most goals of any player on Nashville, despite missing two games. In addition, he scored a goal the game after the incident.

I completely agree that it demonstrates a lack of commitment and appreciation for the team and its rules. That's why suspending them for one game was a smart decision on the organization's part. The mistake was in prolonging their absence from the team. Once the point was made, and it WAS, the coach's obligation in the playoffs is to ice the best team possible. If this were the regular season, I would be on the same side as both you and Commandant but the playoffs are a whole different story. Nashville had a great team this year and despite your comments about the two additions, part of the reason they became favorites in the west came as a consequence of these two acquisitions. Good teams do not come around very often, and this was one of Nashville's best chances to go on a long run in their short history. Imagine two years ago hearing a story that Cammalleri and Kostitsyn were out partying past the team's curfew. As a result, the Canadiens kept them both out of two games against Pittsburgh. There certainly would have been an uproar throughout our fanbase. In addition, there would have been a personal displeasure of mine PRIOR to the second game they sat out. If we disagree on this point, then we simply disagree. I can understand the other side of the coin here, I just do not agree with it. It has very little to do with the actual outcome of game 4.

Well, I didn't mean to offend. I don't think you're wrong, either. All I'm saying is that it was a tough decision and he made a reasonable choice. I can certainly see where a Nashville fan would be frustrated, and I think that frustration is reasonable, too. Sometimes life just hands you a tough, tough choice, and you can't really be blamed for whatever choice you make. If he puts them in and the Preds lose, then he's getting ripped for messing with a winning lineup and poisoning team chemistry, ya know?

'Talented drunks' - a bit harsh, perhaps, but give me a break. Those guys betrayed the team and deserve to get bad-mouthed on internet forums at the very least! ;)

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Haha I can't argue with any of that!

No offense taken by the way, it really is a good debate on both sides and your point about them getting put back into the lineup and the Preds losing is an extremely valuable one. In the end, I agree that the choice was indeed a very difficult one. I just tend to believe that while there may not necessarily have been a right or wrong choice in this circumstance, it can be argued that there was still an "optimal" choice for the better of the team. I feel as though putting them into the lineup was this optimal choice for the reasons stated above.

As for your points about Kostitsyn, I completely agree. I do think this will hurt his value on the market, but like you said there are enough circumstances out there that will allow him another chance and in turn, he will be picked up by someone who is willing to take a risk.

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Can anyone confirm that if the Kings win the Stanley Cup that the Leafs will have the current longest running cup drought? I am 95% sure this is true.

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Sorry about my further hiatus but my dad died so I was elsewhere of course. It's good. He lived a wonderful life & he touched hundreds of people. He was 85. A good run for him. I'm not upset about it anymore. It was time.

I've watched most of the playoffs. The whole Flyers-Pittsburgh series. Not much of Florida-New Jersey...too boring. 5 games of Washington-Boston which too was boring....tight checking by Washington & tight by Boston but a confused tired Boston team also. I watched 2 LA-Vancouver games. Exciting hockey. I watched all of the Detroit-Nashville series. Detroit needs a retool. Nashville played Detroit's game & capitalized. Rinne! Watched 5 games of the Rangers-Ottawa series. Nice try Sens...almost. I totally missed the St. Louis-San Jose series. I saw 1 Phoenix-Chicago game. Ironic that's the one I watched. Torres put Hossa out that game.

I obviously preach to the choir. Quick and Smith will be an ultimate goalie battle of the titans. I'm really confused by Philly. It was as if beating the Pens was good enough, yawn...& keep gooning while the Devil's just skate away. The Devil's are everywhere with speed. It's getting to the point where Philly has to make the perfect play tic-tac-goal to score.

Can the Rangers defeat the Caps 4-2? I figure that Holtby can get them to a game 7. I wonder about the Rangers. They are pegged as contenders but Ottawa & Washington have been a test in spite of King Lundy. Do the Rangers want to attempt this type of hockey versus the winner of the west?

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Can anyone confirm that if the Kings win the Stanley Cup that the Leafs will have the current longest running cup drought? I am 95% sure this is true.

Kings Leafs and Blues are all equal.

Leafs won in 66-67, those two teams joined the league in 67-68.

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Bryzgalov should pack up & go home. Why is it that Flyers goalies always suck since the last great they had in Hextall? Cechmanek was good but obviously not enough. Maxime Ouellet & Antero Niittymaki were both boasted about highly by Philly fans. Yay! Every time New Jersey gets a chance to score I wince that it`s going to go in the net. He sucks!

Put Bobrovsky in FFS!

Flyers pipes SUCK!

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Broad Street Concussions by G & a Broad Street Knee shot by Ronaldo on Zubrus. Good ol` Zubrus, drafted by who? Philly had better keep their head & stay out of the box!

They certainly hate Zubrus

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Bryzgalov made up for it in the 2nd with some nice saves & may have found his groove, but I can`t support him. He`s falling behind the 8 ball more often than not before he finds his game. If anyone watched HBO 24 7 this year about the Winter Classic you know about Bryzgalov`s concern about the universe. He`s a loony. He`d better get it up & get a hot streak going...I doubt it though.

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Flyers lose another game despite scoring the 1st goal. Their record when scoring the first or giving the first goal of the game in these playoff is odd. Would like to see the final stat.

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So... Philly, Nas, StL out... thats most of the "front runners" from early predictions out.

I personally called Nj in the east but my two western ones are now out haha. Going LA-NJ now for final.

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Bryzgalov made up for it in the 2nd with some nice saves & may have found his groove, but I can`t support him. He`s falling behind the 8 ball more often than not before he finds his game. If anyone watched HBO 24 7 this year about the Winter Classic you know about Bryzgalov`s concern about the universe. He`s a loony. He`d better get it up & get a hot streak going...I doubt it though.

Patrick Roy talked to goal posts and refuse to step on certain lines. He also put on his goalie equipment the same way every game.

Goalies are loony period. You have to be. Your job is to take bullets. There's no such thing as a shot you couldn't stop.

Bryzgalov is still an excellent goalie and while I'm sure some people are now convinced it was the Phoenix Coyotes system and not Bryzgalov, I'd say they replaced one goalie who never should have been given away for another goalie who should have never been given away.

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Flyers lose another game despite scoring the 1st goal. Their record when scoring the first or giving the first goal of the game in these playoff is odd. Would like to see the final stat.

I think I remember hearing that they went 1-7 when scoring first.

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Philly was doomed once they hit a defensive minded team. Both the Pens and Philly showed neither team was going to make it with that first round mess. You need goaltending and defense to win a cup. Washington looks like the habs with Halak lately and they are doing better then expected (despite that cluster F**K from Ward in the last game).

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Philly was doomed once they hit a defensive minded team. Both the Pens and Philly showed neither team was going to make it with that first round mess. You need goaltending and defense to win a cup. Washington looks like the habs with Halak lately and they are doing better then expected (despite that cluster F**K from Ward in the last game).

Bingo. I never took Philly seriously for this very reason. Now LA, that's another story - from Game Two of the Vancouver series I knew those guys were for real. They're the favourites to my mind.

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Dale Hunter will not be back with the Caps next season. Weird move...

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Dale Hunter will not be back with the Caps next season.  Weird move...

He doesn't want to go back, the Caps would take him in a heartbeat, but he'd rather have all the power in London.

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