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Willey101

Rebuild or Retool

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What's winning the day, by and large, is great goaltending, total team commitment, grinding play and resolute boxing out of the slot. Indeed, I could impishly point out that a lot of these teams are practicing what is, in effect, Jacques Martin hockey.

You got a point and Martin Hockey may be being used, and that is why it is so freakin boring and as entertaining as watching paint dry. At least Philly Pitt series was fun to watch, too bad it is over.

But thanks god the Blue Jays are playing OK and still fast and entertaining junior hockey to watch.

I will pull for Sens, but not even likely watch them play and they will be likely be golfing tomorrow anyways.

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What's winning the day, by and large, is great goaltending, total team commitment, grinding play and resolute boxing out of the slot. Indeed, I could impishly point out that a lot of these teams are practicing what is, in effect, Jacques Martin hockey.

With the exception of that Philly-Pittsburgh series... absolutely.

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You got a point and Martin Hockey may be being used, and that is why it is so freakin boring and as entertaining as watching paint dry.

I'll take boring over losing. This season had some fun games with big hits, big saves and big goals but it also lead to us in 15th. It's why I shake my head any time someone said Cunnyworth did a good job as coach. He turned the team into the Leafs coached by Ron Wilson.

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I'll take boring over losing. This season had some fun games with big hits, big saves and big goals but it also lead to us in 15th. It's why I shake my head any time someone said Cunnyworth did a good job as coach. He turned the team into the Leafs coached by Ron Wilson.

You could of had Scotty Bowman with George Halas and Vince Lombardi as assistants and the Habs would have missed the playoffs.

If you add up the production from 79, 13, 11, 14, 21 (irregardless of why) and the salary spent on those players, no team could win when $25-30 million gets you only 40 or so goals, pretty simple, plus Eller/Gorges/Leblanc had no training camp and spent all summer rehabbing, plus had several rookies/sophmores playing key minutes.

if you want to blame Cunnywoth and think Martin got the short end of stick, so be it. History now, no sense beating dead horse.

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We are rebuilding..Any talk of dealing Price/Subban/Pacioretty is a "no fly" zone..You have to have rocks in your head to trade away that kind of young talent...Who are we? The Leafs?

Adding another blue chip prospect to this system will be the way to go...I see great things in this team in the near future..

Edited by Blonde Demon
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Trading Subban could be as bad (if not worse) than trading Chelios, IMO.

There are three guys who are near untouchables to me, unless a team massively overpays us for them... Price, Subban, and Patches.

I'm with you Commandant. And who are we cheering for if every face is new and from someplace else every year.. what is Les Glorieux?

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I'm with you Commandant. And who are we cheering for if every face is new and from someplace else every year.. what is Les Glorieux?

Chelios was traded to Chicago with our second pick for Denis Savard. An equivalent trade would be somewhat on the lines of Subban and a second for Selanne. The reason it was a bad trade was that Savard was at end of his career. He ended up playing a couple three years but Chelios went on for another twenty or so years, with hall of fame performances.

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There are 3 don't touches on the team: Price, Subban and Pacioretty. Anyone who suggests otherwise should go back to playing NHL 12.

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There are 3 don't touches on the team: Price, Subban and Pacioretty. Anyone who suggests otherwise should go back to playing NHL 12.

Price: I agree

We can't have a better replacement for Price. Still very young. Lots of experience already. Has won at all levels. Price is gonna win the Stanley Cup and the Conn Smythe one day. Let's keep him to make sure the Habs win a Cup within the next 15 years.

Pax: I agree

He's the player we've been trying to draft for the past 15 years. He's developing into a very nice powerforward. Although he won't probably be a pt-per-game player, he's a valuable asset and should never be traded as a throw-in to get an aging superstar.

Subban: I disagree

We've got Beaulieu and other good dmen coming up. If we're going to improve the team via trade, he's one asset that could give us a great return. We won't improve by trading Weber or Palushaj. Get real guys! If we have to lose one guy in that top 3, my choice would be PK because of the depth at that position and the great ratio return/real value we could get.

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Chelios was traded to Chicago with our second pick for Denis Savard. An equivalent trade would be somewhat on the lines of Subban and a second for Selanne. The reason it was a bad trade was that Savard was at end of his career. He ended up playing a couple three years but Chelios went on for another twenty or so years, with hall of fame performances.

The real bummer there is the Habs overlooking Savard and drafting Doug Wickenheiser. That's what happen when you miss out in the draft and try to make up for it a decade later. If you look at Savard's stats, he was a very good producer until the trade. He did get the Habs a Cup though. So, was it worth it? Short term yes, long term no of course.

The better comparison would be the Habs trading Emelin for Simon Gagne.

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We might have prospects on defence, but none of them project as well as Subban, and all prospects are risky to even reach their potential.

We've got a 22 year old, who was +9 playing 25 minutes per game, against every other team's best lines. And he brings offence too.

Why you'd want to trade that... I have no clue.

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We might have prospects on defence, but none of them project as well as Subban, and all prospects are risky to even reach their potential.

We've got a 22 year old, who was +9 playing 25 minutes per game, against every other team's best lines. And he brings offence too.

Why you'd want to trade that... I have no clue.

I've got nothing against PK. As I said, I believe he is the player who could get us the better return and a player that we will be more able to replace. We've got Markov coming back that is an established star D and should be 100% and doing all PK did and lot more (aka Power Play). And we have other young D coming up like Beaulieu in 2 years probably.

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I've got nothing against PK. As I said, I believe he is the player who could get us the better return and a player that we will be more able to replace. We've got Markov coming back that is an established star D and should be 100% and doing all PK did and lot more (aka Power Play). And we have other young D coming up like Beaulieu in 2 years probably.

I would rather have two puck carriers in their prime (Subban/Beaulieu) than one.

If we have any plans to be a contender again, I'd much prefer Subban/Gorges/Beaulieu/Tinordi/Emelin/Veteran over Gorges/Beaulieu/Tinordi/Emelin/Veteran/Sixth

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Price: I agree

We can't have a better replacement for Price. Still very young. Lots of experience already. Has won at all levels. Price is gonna win the Stanley Cup and the Conn Smythe one day. Let's keep him to make sure the Habs win a Cup within the next 15 years.

Pax: I agree

He's the player we've been trying to draft for the past 15 years. He's developing into a very nice powerforward. Although he won't probably be a pt-per-game player, he's a valuable asset and should never be traded as a throw-in to get an aging superstar.

Subban: I disagree

We've got Beaulieu and other good dmen coming up. If we're going to improve the team via trade, he's one asset that could give us a great return. We won't improve by trading Weber or Palushaj. Get real guys! If we have to lose one guy in that top 3, my choice would be PK because of the depth at that position and the great ratio return/real value we could get.

I will have to agree with Mr. Sakiqc on this one. He is not saying that we should trade Subban, but rather if one of those 3 would be traded, it would be him. Obviously it depends on the return, it would have to be a part of a big name coming back. Surely everyone can agree that defensive prospects are easier to come by in recent years than before. All of the recent draft classes have been stock pilled with defensemen in the first round. I love PK as much as the next guy, but if he had to be a part of a package that was able to get us an established star, then so be it. It also depends on what our future GM's plans are for this team. Are we tweaking for now or are we building for the future?

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There are 3 don't touches on the team: Price, Subban and Pacioretty. Anyone who suggests otherwise should go back to playing NHL 12.

4 dont touches include Markov

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Anyone who considers Pacioretty more important than Subban likely has trouble understanding the importance of two-way defencemen.

You mean the young power forward that we have dreamed of for over a decade who also lead our team in scoring? Any Habs fan who suggests that this type of player is more expendable than a two-way defenseman is out of his mind. I'm not taking anything away from Subban, but merely saying that Pacioretty type players are harder to come by these days.

And speaking as a two-way defenseman who is also Captain, in both my ice hockey and ball hockey leagues, I do understand the importance.

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Anyone who considers Pacioretty more important than Subban likely has trouble understanding the importance of two-way defencemen.

100%. The defence drives everything else. Pacioretty, Price and Subban are all untouchables, but of the three, the FW is the most disposable almost by definition (unless they're named Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc.).

Anyway, we'd be certifiable to even consider dealing any of these short of an absolutely insane return. They ARE the Montreal Canadiens going forward, easily imaginable as part of a Cup-winning core, and I hope we see them in red and blue for another 10 years at least.

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The best player ever, The Gretz was traded four times. There are probably people in Edmonton still in denial. Never say never.

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The best player ever, The Gretz was traded four times. There are probably people in Edmonton still in denial. Never say never.

Its not about never, its about should not happen. Plus weren't those money deals?

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100%. The defence drives everything else. Pacioretty, Price and Subban are all untouchables, but of the three, the FW is the most disposable almost by definition (unless they're named Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc.).

Anyway, we'd be certifiable to even consider dealing any of these short of an absolutely insane return. They ARE the Montreal Canadiens going forward, easily imaginable as part of a Cup-winning core, and I hope we see them in red and blue for another 10 years at least.

Are we talking about Komisarek and Higgins ? Oh, ..

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Are we talking about Komisarek and Higgins ? Oh, ..

Komisarek was propped up by Markov and Higgins never has had the success Max has had. If you are comparing them it isn't a good comparison.

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Komisarek was propped up by Markov and Higgins never has had the success Max has had. If you are comparing them it isn't a good comparison.

Was not comparing them. But it's the same discourse we had with Komi and Higgins. Just to say time flies, evaluations change, players get traded.

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4 dont touches include Markov

You mean "please don't touch Markov, opposing players!"?

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Was not comparing them. But it's the same discourse we had with Komi and Higgins. Just to say time flies, evaluations change, players get traded.

You've got us there. Things can certainly go wrong. Subban in particular still has growing pains to go through and at some point the bulk of fans may get fed up and turn on him.

Still, if you look at it objectively - and just to develop bbp's thought - you have to conclude that both Patches and PK are significantly stronger young players than either Higgins or Komi were. Higgins was a guy whose potential had everybody drooling, but he really only had one decent offensive year (07-08) and still finished with 13 points fewer than Patches had this year in only his second season. Plus Patches has that power element. As for Komisarek, he was always built up as 'only' a bruising shut-down guy, and only showed this when paired with Markov; whereas Subban has had no comparably supportive pairing and yet has already emerged as an all-around stud in only his second season. So I think you can make a rock-solid case that Patches and PK are on another level from those guys.

But that doesn't mean things won't sour for one or more of them in Montreal. What we can say with considerable confidence is that if they do leave us, they will go on to excellence elsewhere - unlike Higs and Komi.

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