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So it's starting to seem that we are heading inevitably towards a lockout... Reports are that the two sides are still far apart. TSN is even reporting that Thornton and Nash have already decided which European team they want to play for.

My question is, if no agreement is reached by the 15th, does that mean the entire season is lost, or if a deal is struck shortly after, can we still have a partial season? Will players wait around or bolt to Europe like last time?

Why on Earth did they wait so long to begin negotiations? Maybe if they had started working on this earlier, like last off season, we might not be in this spot.

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Why do teachers union wait till sept to go on strike instead of spring, same thing.

WHL starts Sept 21st and will be good to see how Bozon-Dietz and Thrower do this year, CHL is just as entertaining, if not more-so with no trap defense to put you to sleep.

On sundays, mondys and thrusdays i got my NFL to keep me entertained also.

Mid-November is my guess when NHL starts, but Habs are highly unlikely to contend and wiould be lucky to just sneek into playoffs again, so maybe better off and get another Cary Price lottery pick.

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Don't the American TV audiences and attendance tend to be pretty limp early in the season, due to competition from other sports? If so, then we can expect no urgency from the league until whatever point it is that American interest tends to pick up (probably around January, when the NFL is done).

No question in my mind that the owners are certified jerk-offs on this one. Not only are they proposing to 'solve' the league's fiscal imbalance entirely on the backs of the players, rather than through revenue sharing; but I think they are smugly assuming that the same hardball strategy adopted last time will work again, and thus feel no particular need to bargain in good faith on the grounds that the players will cave once it really starts to hurt their wallets.

Teams like TO, NYR, and Montreal are reaping artifically inflated profits courtesy of the cap system (which keeps their salary expenses way below what they'd otherwise be). It's just common sense to say that these savings should be pumped back into the less profitable markets. But no, let's just gouge the players!! Worked last time!!!

I was pro-owner in every previous NHL labour conflict. Not this time. Scumbags.

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So it's starting to seem that we are heading inevitably towards a lockout... Reports are that the two sides are still far apart. TSN is even reporting that Thornton and Nash have already decided which European team they want to play for.

My question is, if no agreement is reached by the 15th, does that mean the entire season is lost, or if a deal is struck shortly after, can we still have a partial season? Will players wait around or bolt to Europe like last time?

Why on Earth did they wait so long to begin negotiations? Maybe if they had started working on this earlier, like last off season, we might not be in this spot.

CBA negotiations in nearly every industry (not just sports) rarely get settled before there is a hard deadline looming. Over 90% of these deals get done in the last week before a strike/lockout date, or after that date has past.

Union and Management negotiators almost never want to be seen as making a deal too soon. Its almost always a waiting game, seeing who will give in and blink first to the demands on either side. It is only when the prospect of losing money is actually knocking on the door that these deals seem to get done.

The key here is that this isnt a hockey specific problem, it isn't even a sports specific problem, it happens in almost all industries with a union and the need for a CBA.

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The Winter Classic is a big money maker for the league. They'll be sure to give that every opportunity to succeed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the season start with that game in a shortened schedule, what better way to kick off the new season with the highest attended hockey game in history? The storyline writes itself.

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###### that. I want my fantasy poooools !!!! :wall: :wall:

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Well looks like its over for a while.

Habs postponed the sale of pre season tickets and have started to fill the bell centre already for September and October.

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DAMNIT! I bet Mora IK will get Anze Kopitar now. Mora IK = My swedish version of Boston. HATE the circus this brings to Europe AND I want my NHL to happen.

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Why "wait so long to begin negotiations?". Here are a few things to consider:

The NHPA asked for financial documents from the league for all 30 teams [and likely the NHL’s own internal documents] so they could assess their state of business. I’m sure that took some time to compile, especially since the two teams that made it to the finals could not put all of their data together until some time after the last game was played.

From what I read, those sets of documents were independently audited by an outside firm, so again time was needed to complete that task. I am assuming most teams do not conclude their financial year until the end of June. All of that has to be done anyways for hockey related revenues since the last set of escrow payments have to be paid in October.

Once all of those documents were delivered to the NHLPA, they then needed some time to assess them. It’s unknown of the documents were just for the last season, or for every season since the start of the CBA.

Regardless, I’m not surprised that some time needed to take place before the two sides could get down to negotiating.

Why on Earth did they wait so long to begin negotiations? Maybe if they had started working on this earlier, like last off season, we might not be in this spot.

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DAMNIT! I bet Mora IK will get Anze Kopitar now. Mora IK = My swedish version of Boston. HATE the circus this brings to Europe AND I want my NHL to happen.

Done deal, Kopitar to Mora.

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Geno and Gonchar to Magnitorsk,

CSKA Moscow will probably now move for Semin and Ovechkin, CSKA are giving Fedorov whatever he needs, and Fedorov wants them (he also wanted Datsyuk but he's gone to Ak)

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Dan Cleary indicated the possibility that the lockout might go beyond this season. Can anyone imagine a multi-season lockout??

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Dan Cleary indicated the possibility that the lockout might go beyond this season. Can anyone imagine a multi-season lockout??

Wait for the moment the owners will go on lockout for the end of guaranteed contracts...

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The strategy I hear is that the players are waiting for the owners to fold. They expect this to happen once it gets closer to the Winter Classic. If the owners start showing concessions at this point, the players are going to tell the NHL that negotiating is over and they are ready to give up the entire season to turn around a lot of what they lost in 2004-2005.

Basically just hearsay. There's also talk that the NHLPA will be the ones who give something up in the end but they will be using the strike card again in the future, something we haven't seen used since 1992.

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I'm sick of it already. :(

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Ok, the owners are already claiming $250 mill in losses. How much did the teams that lost money last year lose in total? Maybe the owners need to wake up and share the profits so everyone is happy. Just sayin'

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Ok, the owners are already claiming $250 mill in losses. How much did the teams that lost money last year lose in total? Maybe the owners need to wake up and share the profits so everyone is happy. Just sayin'

What i find really strange about their resistance to profit sharing... is that it is practiced in the NFL... so it isn't like its unheard of :/

Small market owners should really be pushing for it.

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Ok, the owners are already claiming $250 mill in losses. How much did the teams that lost money last year lose in total? Maybe the owners need to wake up and share the profits so everyone is happy. Just sayin'

This is the big franchises message to the teams losing money: "We're losing money for one year FOR YOU. Don't you dare suggest we should give up money to you every year in profit sharing. We're not buying you a Stanley Cup."

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If the big fancises don't want to aid the weak market teams. face it that is what they are. we should have a smaller league.. Those markets can't support an elite NHL team should form another league for themselves. Half the teams stay in the NHL and have a huge talent pool, the cut players go to the new league NHL Tier 2. Teams could be relegated up and down by profits. Top league teams get way more cap space than tier 2. Top tier 2 teams make playoffs.

If the owners are serious about having a huge league, share the profits. I am not the brightest light on the tree, but I see the sense in that. As the lockout proves, zero players on the ice equals zero attendance. The players are the game and should be paid accordingly. Renibds me of record labels and concert promoters. Bunch of greedy crooks.

There will be no NHL products under my Christmas tree for the first time in history. That will be my little statement and I urge others to promote this concept.

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The NHL has tabled a straight 50/50 offer with some sort of non-escrow provision to cut the players' salaries now (likely to be a 10-11% cut) and reimburse them over time. I'm intrigued to see how that would work, I suspect it's tied to future revenue growth. It's a minimum 6 year offer. I like this offer by the league, we're about to see the PA's resolve now. Lots of people have said 50/50 would get it done, the offer is now out there. If the PA rejects outright (or counters with something that has little/nothing to do with this one), I'd watch for fan support to drastically shift to the owners' side. That said, I want to know where the NHL moved on other elements (arbitration, free agency, ELC's, etc).

There also is a strict timetable for this, it's stated directly in the offer that the season would start November 2nd. That'd make for a really quick training camp, especially with one of the stipulations in the deal being that there would be a full 82-game season.

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Some of the other details leaking out:

- Arbitration would remain intact (the leagues' previous stance was to have it eliminated)

- Edit: ELC's now reported to stay at 3 years ELC's would move from 3 years to 4 (the previous offer was for 5)

- Free agency would start at 28 or 8 years service time (currently 27 and 7 years - I'm not really sure where the league was in their most recent offers on this one)

- Contracts capped at 5 years maximum (this one they didn't move on)

- Revenue sharing would increase to the $200 M level (this is similar to previous offers)

Basically, it looks like the poison pill is the contract length. I think most of the terms would be deemed acceptable (I don't have my old copy of the CBA before the last lockout anymore to verify this but I think ELC's were at one point 4 year deals so that would just be going back to the way it once was) but I can see the PA really trying to work on the contract length one. For comparison sake, there is no max length in MLB, the NFL I believe is now 7 years, while the NBA is down to 5 in their new CBA (previously 6).

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A bright light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not the train. Chances are good that this offer will unlock the talks. I do believe that we will see NHL hockey before December.

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Just read about another tidbit, one that would more or less eliminate burying contracts in the minors. The new deal proposes that all NHL salaries (I interpret that as 1-way deals) count regardless of whether they're in the NHL or the minors.

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