You're Marc Bergevin - What deal do you offer Subban?

[Zowpeb]

I agree with you. The Subban situation can't be compared to Dougthy's strike. Not only Dougthy had accomplished more, he was with a better team, the urgency to play was not the same. He did not look like blackmailing; in the case of Subban, unfortunately it does. He sends the message that he is ready to hurt his teammates to get what he wants. He also doesn't look bothered by the fact that he has not played since April and that the others will have quite a few steps over him once he will be ready to play -- a situation that will only get worse if he doesn't sign soon.

The fact is that I am very disappointed by his attitude and doubt that his career with the Habs will be long.

I have no problem with Subban, through his agent, negotiating hard and trying to get the right deal for him. I don't hold it against him...especially when there was essentially a limited time frame to negotiate due to the lock-out.

I think Bergevin knows the team isn't that strong and he's likely to be in the lottery at the draft. I think he's willing to let a few games slide if it means he's in the top 5-6 picks again. I also think if the team surprised and came out strong he'd be comfortable dragging out a negotiation even longer. He's completely in the drivers seat and it's really a no-lose situation. The worst that could happen from a negotiation standpoint is if a team comes along with an offer sheet in hand...and I maintain that it's highly unlikely since the lock-out just ended. No GM wants to already be seen as the guy driving up salaries less then a month after a hard fought lock-out over payroll issues. Bergevin can sit tight and get a fair deal...Subban can try, and should try, to get everything he can in any negotiation but at some point his agent has to realise he has no leverage. Which is exactly why Meehan SHOULD be trying to get a bridge deal.

[JCPetit]

I have no problem with Subban, through his agent, negotiating hard and trying to get the right deal for him. I don't hold it against him...especially when there was essentially a limited time frame to negotiate due to the lock-out.

I think Bergevin knows the team isn't that strong and he's likely to be in the lottery at the draft. I think he's willing to let a few games slide if it means he's in the top 5-6 picks again. I also think if the team surprised and came out strong he'd be comfortable dragging out a negotiation even longer. He's completely in the drivers seat and it's really a no-lose situation. The worst that could happen from a negotiation standpoint is if a team comes along with an offer sheet in hand...and I maintain that it's highly unlikely since the lock-out just ended. No GM wants to already be seen as the guy driving up salaries less then a month after a hard fought lock-out over payroll issues. Bergevin can sit tight and get a fair deal...Subban can try, and should try, to get everything he can in any negotiation but at some point his agent has to realise he has no leverage. Which is exactly why Meehan SHOULD be trying to get a bridge deal.

I want argue with that. He has the right to negotiate hard, but let's say that his timing sucks. In case he has not noticed, we have a short schedule this year. We need him now, not in two, three or four weeks. The longer he takes, the more he looks selfish to the management, his teammates, the fans and the other GMs. I don't see him winning much in this stalemate.

[Commandant]

Especially after last night's game, you have to wonder. If we continue to play like that, and Subban continues to sit on contract talks, wouldn't his value start getting lower? I know he's a quality player, but I'm assuming Meehan is increasing Subban's value according to how much the team needs Subban. That being said, if Meehan and Subban see the team being successful without him, shouldn't his value go down?

Also, another food or thought. How much is Subban worth to the team when he is putting his short-term future and development in jeopardy for money?

I'm seriously coming to terms with if Subban isn't signed by the end of the week, just trade him. Even Doughty didn't lose important games over contract. This greed issue bugs me, especially after Subban telling the media he wants to play in Montreal and that is all he's focusing on. If this were true, I can't help but believe he would have been playing since the 19th.

Subban's value doesn't get lower when the Habs play one good game vs Florida.

Nor does it get higher if they play one stinker vs the Leafs.

Show me 10-15 games, and maybe we'll consider the impact on his value but its not changing cause of one game, either way.

[Commandant]

The player has no contract. Its not like he's breaking his deal.

I don't see how the player is the only one to blame for this stalemate, and not the GM.

If the rumors are true then we have a low-ball offer from MB.... and a high ball offer by PK. There is no one side that is to blame. Both are being unrealistic right now IMO.

[TurdBurglar]

Subban's value doesn't get lower when the Habs play one good game vs Florida.

Nor does it get higher if they play one stinker vs the Leafs.

Show me 10-15 games, and maybe we'll consider the impact on his value but its not changing cause of one game, either way.

I'm really not sure what point your trying to make exactly. Are you basicly reiterating the post your quoting? I did say "If we continue to play like that."

[Commandant]

I'm really not sure what point your trying to make exactly. Are you basicly reiterating the post your quoting? I did say "If we continue to play like that."

The point I'm making is that this isn't a roller coaster ride where value changes with every win and loss. How many people were saying, "PK is gonna ask for more" after the Leafs loss, and now the opposite after 1 win.

This 2 game stretch has changed nothing about the leverage from either side.

This isn't directed at you.... its directed at everything I've been seeing, here, on twitter, H I/O etc.... one game is just that. one game.

[JCPetit]

The point I'm making is that this isn't a roller coaster ride where value changes with every win and loss. How many people were saying, "PK is gonna ask for more" after the Leafs loss, and now the opposite after 1 win.

This 2 game stretch has changed nothing about the leverage from either side.

This isn't directed at you.... its directed at everything I've been seeing, here, on twitter, H I/O etc.... one game is just that. one game.

You are right. In fact, I believe that Subban's leverage goes lower each day he doesn't play. It has nothing to do with wins or losses. Time is of the essence in his case. It doesn't play in his favor.

[TurdBurglar]

Out of the last 2 games, from my point of view, the first game was everything we saw last year. Penalties, breakdowns, lazy play, only playing 20 minutes if we get lucky. the second game is something none of us saw last season. A full 60 minute effort where we dominated from end to end. It refreshing to see a game like that and you can't help but think we will be more competitive more often.

I don't think Subban's value will increase or decrease every game, nor does anyone with a handle on the sport. I do believe even with this type of effort, if it continues, Subban's value does take a dip. His value right now is based on the last 2 seasons. In 10-15 games if the effort continues as a team as a whole, I don't believe wins or losses will matter much when it comes to Subban's value. I think Subban will be forced to sign a short term deal just to prove he can play at this level of intensity. Subban was just as guilty as anyone else last season at lacking effort. If everyone else is stepping up their game, so must he. Can he do it?

Last season we saw lots of changes, but no signs of change in the team. The team at the end of the year looked like the same team as they were at the beginning. A complete management overhaul might have sent the message to the players that we aren't scared to get rid of anyone if your hurting the team. the coaching is taking a new approach and we have young players biting at the bit to player, forcing players like Eller to step up or step aside. In a general sense it really looks like a sign of change, and I think the Florida game was a result of that. Will this effort continue? Only time will tell, but the signs are there. How many games did we all say last year if we showed a full 60 minutes we would of won easily, instead we had 20 minutes of effort and lost by a goal. This team didn't look like the team we had last year.

[JCPetit]

Out of the last 2 games, from my point of view, the first game was everything we saw last year. Penalties, breakdowns, lazy play, only playing 20 minutes if we get lucky. the second game is something none of us saw last season. A full 60 minute effort where we dominated from end to end. It refreshing to see a game like that and you can't help but think we will be more competitive more often.

I don't think Subban's value will increase or decrease every game, nor does anyone with a handle on the sport. I do believe even with this type of effort, if it continues, Subban's value does take a dip. His value right now is based on the last 2 seasons. In 10-15 games if the effort continues as a team as a whole, I don't believe wins or losses will matter much when it comes to Subban's value. I think Subban will be forced to sign a short term deal just to prove he can play at this level of intensity. Subban was just as guilty as anyone else last season at lacking effort. If everyone else is stepping up their game, so must he. Can he do it?

Last season we saw lots of changes, but no signs of change in the team. The team at the end of the year looked like the same team as they were at the beginning. A complete management overhaul might have sent the message to the players that we aren't scared to get rid of anyone if your hurting the team. the coaching is taking a new approach and we have young players biting at the bit to player, forcing players like Eller to step up or step aside. In a general sense it really looks like a sign of change, and I think the Florida game was a result of that. Will this effort continue? Only time will tell, but the signs are there. How many games did we all say last year if we showed a full 60 minutes we would of won easily, instead we had 20 minutes of effort and lost by a goal. This team didn't look like the team we had last year.

There was no laziness in the first game. The effort was there, but they did not follow their plan.

[tebo64]

What concerns me about Subban or worry I should say is he holds out and finally signs after 10 games or so and get's hurt upon his return to the team because he isn't in game shape.

[habs rule]

This is just a thought I had, Meehan is known to be a very tough negotiator lets say the stand off lasts 20 games, and the team tanks, looks like no playoffs, where is PKs leverage now, not goona make the playoffs, he may as well sit at home, why pay him?

Lets say the Habs go on win streak leading the division, why do you we need PK? He may as well sit home, no need to pay him.

My point being he has leverage right now because of the unknown, we don't know what will happen but the longer this drags out and the more we can ascertain the future his leverage decreases to nothing very quickly because of the short season.

And what if MB were to decide to play hardball and say PK stay home, we will talk after the season because right now you are too much of a distraction to the team? Which he is.

This is a very risky strategy for a young guy with tons of POTENTIAL, he is not a proven commodity. As I have said before he or his agent have to get their head out of their a$$.

Oh as to the offer sheet thing, if he signs one he may have a new home. I don't think he wants to go anywhere else so he needs a new strategy.

just my thought

[JoeLassister]

If we sit PK for the whole season, we'll lose PK.

Other GMs will know that he will go for cheap and most likely will take advantage of it.

Sitting PK gives zero leverage to Bergevin I would say.

[JCPetit]

According to Bob McKenzie, Subban and the Habs are too far apart, both on the money ($2.5 million per year) and on term (4 years gap), for a contract to be signed soon. In fact, he expects Subban will be traded.

[TurdBurglar]

According to Bob McKenzie, Subban and the Habs are too far apart, both on the money ($2.5 million per year) and on term (4 years gap), for a contract to be signed soon. In fact, he expects Subban will be traded.

I have to laugh, I was just about to post the same thing myself.

[JCPetit]

I have to laugh, I was just about to post the same thing myself.

Well, I would not like to see that happen, but if he is too greedy there won't be another alternative, I am afraid.

[Commandant]

Well, I would not like to see that happen, but if he is too greedy there won't be another alternative, I am afraid.

When two sides are as far apart as Subban and the Habs are (3 million per year according to McKenzie), it is usually because both sides are being unrealistic.

Sure Subban is asking for too much, but Montreal is also lowballing him, and I don't know why.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Bergevin wants to show he isn't going to budge on his system.

If P.K. gets traded, don't know how I'd feel. Never is one player bigger than the team, but Bergevin would be proving he thinks he's bigger than the team he is managing. Probably be enough for me to stop following the Canadiens again. A real punch in the gut.

[JMMR]

I hope this is all BS.

I hope that MB is true to his word and keeping his lips tight.

[JCPetit]

Subban is probably asking for $5.5 to $6 millions per year on a six years contract. It's ridiculous. Trade him.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Subban is probably asking for $5.5 to $6 per year on a six years contract. It's ridiculous. Trade him.

You sign him at 6 years and 36 million. It isn't ridiculous.

[JCPetit]

You sign him at 6 years and 36 million. It isn't ridiculous.

You are quite alone to think that way. In fact, if the numbers are right, it is quite obvious to me that Subban is no longer an asset but a liability. I would not mind trading him at all. Let another team deal with that troublemaker.

BTW, Subban is no longer my favorite Hab.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

You are quite alone to think that way. In fact, if the numbers are right, it is quite obvious to me that Subban is no longer an asset but a liability. I would not mind trading him at all. Let another team deal with that troublemaker.

Alex Edler signs at $5M per season and people call it a hometown discount.

Subban supposedly wants $6M per season and people call it ridiculous.

There's a reason why fans of 29 NHL teams are yelling at their GM to offer sheet PK Subban. It's because they value him more than we do.

[JCPetit]

Alex Edler signs at $5M per season and people call it a hometown discount.

Subban supposedly wants $6M per season and people call it ridiculous.

There's a reason why fans of 29 NHL teams are yelling at their GM to offer sheet PK Subban. It's because they value him more than we do.

Yes, there is a reason: fans have no clue. Who said "If you listen to the fans, you will soon end up in the stands as one of them"?

[JMMR]

You are quite alone to think that way. In fact, if the numbers are right, it is quite obvious to me that Subban is no longer an asset but a liability. I would not mind trading him at all. Let another team deal with that troublemaker.

BTW, Subban is no longer my favorite Hab.

Have to disagree.

PK is the most valuable asset the Habs have, right there beside Carey Price.

[JCPetit]

Have to disagree.

PK is the most valuable asset the Habs have, right there beside Carey Price.

Not if you pay too much for that asset. If somebody is ready to pay the price, let him make a proposition. We'll see if he is ready to trade some valuable assets.