You're Marc Bergevin - What deal do you offer Subban?

[JoeLassister]

If it is 6M$ per, I want nothing less than 8 years.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Yes, there is a reason: fans have no clue. Who said "If you listen to the fans, you will soon end up in the stands as one of them"?

Yeah, and someone should also say, "People on message boards need to stop thinking hockey is as easy in real life as it is in video games." It's incredible seeing Montreal about to repeat history on the Chelios debacle and people being more than willing to accept it.

You cannot get fair value in trading Subban. It will also wreck Bergevin for contract negotiations with UFAs for the rest of his tenure in the NHL. Why is anyone going to sign or want to play for the Canadiens if they know they'll be shipped out the moment they have a disagreement on money as an RFA? This is franchise wrecking.

It's also a hard bargain tactic and it's rumoured that Bergevin is doing this to call Meehan's bluff of an offer sheet at $6.2M per season.

[JMMR]

Not if you pay too much for that asset. If somebody is ready to pay the price, let him make a proposition. We'll see if he is ready to trade some valuable assets.

But you have to believe the assets coming back will be insufficient no?

[Habinator33]

You sign him at 6 years and 36 million. It isn't ridiculous.

You don't give an RFA defenseman 6 million per year to eat up only 2 years of UFA eligiblity. There are only 11 defenseman with a cap hit over 6 million per year some of which most would argue aren't worth it. The others all spent more years in NHL or were approaching UFA when they signed their contracts. I also don't think Subban is in the top 15 overall in defenseman he could hit that point but he's not there yet.

I'd draw the line at the Edler contract anything more at this point isn't worth it considering the years you are paying for.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Some facts from Dave Stubbs: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/montreal-canadiens/Contract+stalemate+ongoing+Subban/7862837/story.html

[JCPetit]

Yeah, and someone should also say, "People on message boards need to stop thinking hockey is as easy in real life as it is in video games." It's incredible seeing Montreal about to repeat history on the Chelios debacle and people being more than willing to accept it.

You cannot get fair value in trading Subban. It will also wreck Bergevin for contract negotiations with UFAs for the rest of his tenure in the NHL. Why is anyone going to sign or want to play for the Canadiens if they know they'll be shipped out the moment they have a disagreement on money as an RFA? This is franchise wrecking.

It's also a hard bargain tactic and it's rumoured that Bergevin is doing this to call Meehan's bluff of an offer sheet at $6.2M per season.

We have endured two lock-outs, mainly because a few GMs gave ridiculous contracts to some players. For me, at his age, Subban has still a lot to prove before he is signed to a long term contract. A bridge contract makes sense and Subban would not lose money to sign it. Think about it, if he signs for two years at $3 millions per year, what do you suppose he will be able to ask after two good seasons under his belt? $7 or $8 millions for eight years? Quite possible. If he is so good, why is he not eager to bet on himself? Why does he want the Habs to make that bet, even though question marks remain in his case? Is it because he wants that money now more than he wants to prove himself? Is it because his well-being is more important than the game he supposedly loves so much?

I think that he is greedy, a selfish individual. A great athlete for sure, but he might soon become a problem in the dressing room (he already is) if management caves in to his demands. Who will be able to reason with a fat cat Subban?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Los Angeles sure has been hurting due to contract hold out and young, over paid compared to what he has proved, 30 point blue liner Drew Doughty.

How does Dean Lombardi sleep at night?

[bar]

Haha...greedy player, never greedy organization. I find is hard to be on the teams side in this, MB will make a bigger mistake than PG ever did getting rid of Subban...

[JoeLassister]

Subban needs to be on the ice anywhere between a cap hit of 3M$ and 7M$ by next week. Period.

Sami Salo and Tom Gilbert both have a cap hit of 4M$, Bryan Allen at 3,5M$, same for Hjalmarsson.

M-E Vlasic will notch a cap hit of 4,25M$ next season.

Yet, none of these guys are even close to bring what PK does to their team.

Pay him.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Haha...greedy player, never greedy organization. I find is hard to be on the teams side in this, MB will make a bigger mistake than PG ever did getting rid of Subban...

I hate those moments where someone finds the words better than me.

[JCPetit]

Los Angeles sure has been hurting due to contract hold out and young, over paid compared to what he has proved, 30 point blue liner Drew Doughty.

How does Dean Lombardi sleep at night?

He sleeps well now, but what if Doughty's play is not as good next year and the next? You always take a chance with lengthy contracts. Look at Yashin, Gomez, Redden. And there are others. The team is not trying to rob him. Management has been fair to Price, Pax and others. All MB wants is for Subban to follow the same path, a bridge contract. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

He sleeps well now, but what if Doughty's play is not as good next year and the next? You always take a chance with lengthy contracts. Look at Yashin, Gomez, Redden. And there are others. The team is not trying to rob him. Management has been fair to Price, Pax and others. All MB wants is for Subban to follow the same path, a bridge contract. There's nothing wrong with that.

Carey Price: signed a bridge after Montreal traded Halak and Price had his worst season performance

Max Pacioretty: signed a bridge after finally making the NHL out of the AHL

P.K. Subban: told to sign a bridge deal after being Montreal's number one defenceman

How selfish of him.

[JCPetit]

The fans miss him a lot, but from what I have read so far nobody misses him among his teammates. What kind of message management would send to them if he was signed for the kind of money he is asking?

[JoeLassister]

The fans miss him a lot, but from what I have read so far nobody misses him among his teammates. What kind of message management would send to them if he was signed for the kind of money he is asking?

We don't even know what he asks for.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

We don't even know what he asks for.

Dave Stubbs, having talked to Subban, has said that the team is adamant on a short term deal and Subban said he isn't holding the team for ransom and just wants to be paid his worth.

[JCPetit]

If he was a great teammate, a leader, instead of a distraction in the dressing room, the contract would probably not be a problem anymore. Subban's general attitude is, IMO, the main reason why there is a stalemate. Management, I believe, knows a few things about him that we ignore. Obviously there are worries regarding his commitment to his teammates and his ability to grow not only as a hockey player but as a human being. Don't forget that he has been benched by Martin and Boucher (in the AHL). I recall that Boucher also expressed some reserves about his personality; I thought at the time that he was tough with him, but I guess that he knew what he was talking about.

Dave Stubbs, having talked to Subban, has said that the team is adamant on a short term deal and Subban said he isn't holding the team for ransom and just wants to be paid his worth.

Well, if it's just that, we just have to give him what he wants. Fan-tastic!

[TurdBurglar]

Los Angeles sure has been hurting due to contract hold out and young, over paid compared to what he has proved, 30 point blue liner Drew Doughty.

How does Dean Lombardi sleep at night?

I dislike people mentioning Doughty and Subban together.

If you had a choice of either Doughty or Subban out on the ice for a penalty kill, who would you pick?

If you had a choice of Subban or Doughty on the ice 5-on-5, who would you pick?

If you had a choice of Doughty or Subban on the ice for a powerplay, who would you pick?

If you picked Subban over Doughty for any of those your kidding yourself, Doughty has proved himself in all 3 zones of the ice, on every stage he has played on. You can't say that about Subban. Doughty's offensive numbers have been better every year as well. That is why Doughty shouldn't be mentioned in this conversation with Subban.

[JCPetit]

I dislike people mentioning Doughty and Subban together.

If you had a choice of either Doughty or Subban out on the ice for a penalty kill, who would you pick?

If you had a choice of Subban or Doughty on the ice 5-on-5, who would you pick?

If you had a choice of Doughty or Subban on the ice for a powerplay, who would you pick?

If you picked Subban over Doughty for any of those your kidding yourself, Doughty has proved himself in all 3 zones of the ice, on every stage he has played on. You can't say that about Subban. Doughty's offensive numbers have been better every year as well. That is why Doughty shouldn't be mentioned in this conversation with Subban.

Right on!

Doughty's snapshot touches the net. Subban's not very often.

[JCPetit]

According to Guy Carbonneau, talking at l'Antichambre, Don Meehan's advice to Subban is to accept the two-year bridge contract offered to him by the team. Obviously, P.K. has said no to his agent.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/355208.html

If the contract is good enough for Meehan, why isn't good enough for Subban?

[JCPetit]

Among the panelists at l'AntiChambre these last few weeks, I have yet to see one supporting Subban's position against his team. Vincent Damphousse, Mario Tremblay, Gaston Therrien, Michel Bergeron, Gilbert Delorme, P.J. Stock and Yvon Lambert are unanimous in their point of view: the young man has a bright future, but it is in the future. He still has a lot to prove and doesn't deserve to be paid like a star yet. It's too early in his development. Marc Denis and Benoit Brunet expressed similar opinions.

I know that the Subban's fans will pretend that they are on a mission from management. I will reply that such unanimity tells me that those guys know a lot more than I do about P.K. and that they are not impressed.

[JoeLassister]

If P.K. refuses to sign for 8M$/2 years, then yes, I would think that he is a bit stupid and selfish.

But if he refuses to sign the Del Zotto deal, then I'd be on Subban's side. He brings much more on the table than Del Zotto.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't know why people are talking about Subban being traded. Are the Habs babies, unable to cope with a player doing some hardball negotating, that they have to ship him out? Have we, as fans, learned nothing from the endless parade of assets thrown away because people didn't care for their 'attitude?' Chelios, Carbo, Roy, Tucker, Ribeiro, Grabovski, Sergei Kostitsyn, etc., etc., etc..

I don't like the talk about his supposed character flaws, either. There is a huge old-school constituency in the NHL that despises young brash, mouthy players who are insufficiently deferential toward their elders. None of this has a single damned thing to do with production on the ice. PK deserves to be paid like the quality #2 d-man he is. If indeed the Habs are lowballing him it can only be because of this sort of B.S..

Anyway, this whole fooforah is slightly reminiscent of the lockout in that both sides are waiting for the other to blink. We are - or should be - a long way away from throwing away the asset. And please don't deny that we will be throwing him away. No realistic return will compensate for the loss of our future cornerstone defender.

Only if Subban shows no sign of being signed by late next summer do I, as GM, seriously start shopping around his rights.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I don't like the talk about his supposed character flaws, either. There is a huge old-school constituency in the NHL that despises young brash, mouthy players who are insufficiently deferential toward their elders. None of this has a single damned thing to do with production on the ice. PK deserves to be paid like the quality #2 d-man he is. If indeed the Habs are lowballing him it can only be because of this sort of B.S..

You won't find a more selfish player to ever live than Patrick Roy. You also won't find too many players more driven to win than Patrick Roy. Back in the mid-late 80s his character issues were well spoken about. Every year there would be talk about how Roy probably lost it and this was his last season. The 93 playoffs, if Montreal didn't win the Cup? Roy would have been gone, seen as a choker who had one magical year as a rookie. We sure got some humble, respectful talent in return for him.

[hab29RETIRED]

I don't know why people are talking about Subban being traded. Are the Habs babies, unable to cope with a player doing some hardball negotating, that they have to ship him out? Have we, as fans, learned nothing from the endless parade of assets thrown away because people didn't care for their 'attitude?' Chelios, Carbo, Roy, Tucker, Ribeiro, Grabovski, Sergei Kostitsyn, etc., etc., etc..

I don't like the talk about his supposed character flaws, either. There is a huge old-school constituency in the NHL that despises young brash, mouthy players who are insufficiently deferential toward their elders. None of this has a single damned thing to do with production on the ice. PK deserves to be paid like the quality #2 d-man he is. If indeed the Habs are lowballing him it can only be because of this sort of B.S..

Anyway, this whole fooforah is slightly reminiscent of the lockout in that both sides are waiting for the other to blink. We are - or should be - a long way away from throwing away the asset. And please don't deny that we will be throwing him away. No realistic return will compensate for the loss of our future cornerstone defender.

Only if Subban shows no sign of being signed by late next summer do I, as GM, seriously start shopping around his rights.

i don't think this is just about a mouthy brash young man. This is about an uppity black guy that the should be happy to be in the NHL and no one from the old school likes.

I think Pang's freudian slip proved that.

When a punks like Mike Richards and pinocchio from Boston call out PK's for lack of respect, it is nothing more then bullshit.

According to Guy Carbonneau, talking at l'Antichambre, Don Meehan's advice to Subban is to accept the two-year bridge contract offered to him by the team. Obviously, P.K. has said no to his agent.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/355208.html

If the contract is good enough for Meehan, why isn't good enough for Subban?

Who on Antichambre actually ever liked Subban??? I doubt if any of those croonies they are the most objective people to to rely on.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Nothing angered me more than the Michael Farber article on Subban a few years back: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1179940/index.htm#ixzz18EvWJ8DD

Subban is a one-man on-ice filibuster. Nothing salacious—”We wouldn’t allow that, because it’s disrespectful,” says veteran Montreal winger Mathieu Darche. No, mostly Subban harangues opponents with a playground you-can’t-beat-me braggadocio, which has prompted one NHL assistant to observe, “It’s almost like he’s an athlete in a different sport.”