You're Marc Bergevin - What deal do you offer Subban?

[Easy Ryder]

The only reason why Subban is not paid as he think his worth is not what his

ice time was or his level of play.

It's a an attitude problem, you don't invest long term on a hot chick, you ride

it on a short term base and if, i said if, the chick is not messing around with

all the other chickens around than it's safe to put her the ring.

PK has no ring to show. And obviously, his team thinks he is Ocho Cinco. so must the little

chick fly to other sky ? Hoping to bring a piece of the puzzle that would keep a united

crew on a team first attitude like Therrien wants ?

[Colin]

Brian. Really? Quoting Kypreos of all people? LOL

Patience, everyone. It's a game of chicken except one of the parties hasn't realized he doesn't even have a car in which to play.

[dlbalr]

Brian. Really? Quoting Kypreos of all people? LOL

That was the only tweet that had specific numbers today, there's no point in posting one of the many tweets that simply said they were meeting...that would've have sparked much discussion.

[JoeLassister]

[Commandant]

Commandant...that's assuming their offer sheet isn't above the threshold requiring them to give up more.

You also need to consider that it's not just acquiring those picks...you also keep $6M in cap room which allows you to sign a pretty good UFA at that number. Ryan Suter and Zach Parise signed for only $1.5M more then that number last summer. Shane Doan and Matt Carle signed for under $5.5M last summer.

Adding those picks (even from a team that is likely in the bottom third of the draft rounds) PLUS a UFA of that level is really what you need to consider.

Do you believe someone is going to give PK 6.3 million per year (ie 2 first rounders, 1 second, 1 third)?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

It's a an attitude problem,

Attitude problem. Off ice issues.

If Montreal didn't try to get rid of every player with a supposed attitude problem or perpetrator of off ice issues, and instead focused on the skill and ability they have to win? Montreal would have won another ring since 1993. You know, the time when our best player had an attitude problem?

[Zowpeb]

3 of those Dmen ? Who are you kidding ?

Where'd I say they need to use the space on a D-man??

We were talking about the value/return if someone signed him and we took the picks and cap space...

[Zowpeb]

Do you believe someone is going to give PK 6.3 million per year (ie 2 first rounders, 1 second, 1 third)?

I do not see someone offering him that...which is why I don't think he'll get an offer sheet.

If the Habs could get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd AND they intended to use that $6M level of cap space on a quality UFA next summer then I'd take that over Subban. I think if someone signs him to an offer sheet under $6M the Habs would match it...I personally would not if we got 1,2 and 3rd round picks in this years draft...

[BlueKross]

I do not see someone offering him that...which is why I don't think he'll get an offer sheet.

If the Habs could get a 1st, 2nd and 3rd AND they intended to use that $6M level of cap space on a quality UFA next summer then I'd take that over Subban. I think if someone signs him to an offer sheet under $6M the Habs would match it...I personally would not if we got 1,2 and 3rd round picks in this years draft...

Zowpeb, you keep nailing it. What they are missing is that this is not about Subban, as it wasn't about Gomez IT'S About the BOTTOM LINE

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hickey has a useful piece for once: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Pitter+Patter+Canadiens+Subban+hurting+brand+contract+dispute/7873597/story.html

Looks like a fateful weekend ahead. The Friday powwow apparently did not go well, and now PK - that proudest of players - has to 'reflect' on whether he can live with swallowing his pride and lace 'em up. Clearly, he now understands that Bergevin has no intention of caving any time soon.

Y'know, the Habs do have a point. PK can quite reasonably point to RFAs who got lucrative long-term deals, but the whole purpose of the RFA category in a cap system is that it gives teams some flexibility to sign good, maturing young players at a cheaper rate than UFAs, thereby maintaining cap room to ice a competitive team. A perfect organization would have great talent at all three contract categories (entry-level, RFA, UFA).

So the Habs are standing by the logic of the system; you really can't argue with the principle. I do hope they aren't unnecessarily lowballing PK, though. It's one thing to insist that RFA deals be affordable, another to try to bilk the player, which I don't support at all.

[brobin]

One ray of hope is that PK will be talking it over with his family. His parents are very down to earth and tend to keep his ego in check.

Lets hope PK comes around.

[Helmethead]

If he finally agrees to a bridge contract (And i believe he will) consider it a major coup for the organization.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Again, I'm fine with two years but $2.5M just sickens me. Pretty much leveraging his love for the Canadiens. Doesn't feel right to me at all.

[brobin]

You know who could use PK and probably offer fair value back.... Edmonton.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

You know who could use PK and probably offer fair value back.... Edmonton.

I keep hearing people say this but why would Bergevin trade Subban for anyone that's going to make more than $2.5M? Defeats the entire purpose, unless the whole point of this is to get rid of the guy.

[dlbalr]

According to Renaud Lavoie, the offer on the table is $2.2M/$2.9M (same AAV as Del Zotto). I'm all for the bridge contract but that's too low. This apparently is the exact same offer Bergevin originally tendered back in May. That's certainly the definition of hardball.

https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/status/295181894469955584

https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/status/295168979088072705

[Commandant]

Thats a bullshit offer. Way less than what he's worth.

[JCPetit]

According to Renaud Lavoie, the offer on the table is $2.2M/$2.9M (same AAV as Del Zotto). I'm all for the bridge contract but that's too low. That's the exact same offer Bergevin originally tendered back in May. That's certainly the definition of hardball.

https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/status/295181894469955584

https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/status/295168979088072705

That's negotiations. Don't forget that he wants a long term contract, first and foremost. If he finally gives in to the idea of a bridge, short term contract, MB has room for better dollar terms. We are in the final stages of the process. Subban had unrealistic demands, MB lowered his expectations. They should find a middle ground in the next few days.

One more point: I would not give absolute credibility to the numbers we are reading in the press right now. Nobody knows for sure what has been put on the table, nor what kind of money Subban really asked for. We are just guessing, and I suspect that few people really understand what's going on exactly between the two sides. What we can deduct, for sure, is that they are far aside and that Subban's leverage, due to his status, is limited and quickly fading (even more so in a shortened schedule).

Don't worry, he will come to his sense soon.

[brobin]

I keep hearing people say this but why would Bergevin trade Subban for anyone that's going to make more than $2.5M? Defeats the entire purpose, unless the whole point of this is to get rid of the guy.

If they can't come to an agreement, Edmonton would make a great trading partner. They have room to sign him where Philly doesn't. It would also get him out of our conference.

I am not saying we should do it, but if it comes to that, it makes way more sense then Philly, IMO.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

If they can't come to an agreement, Edmonton would make a great trading partner. They have room to sign him where Philly doesn't. It would also get him out of our conference.

I am not saying we should do it, but if it comes to that, it makes way more sense then Philly, IMO.

Of course Edmonton or Detroit make the most sense but who says they'll make a good offer? Do you really think Edmonton is going to part with Hall, Nugent, Yakupov or Eberle? They will likely offer Sam Gagner and a second.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If that report is accurate, the Habs's offer is nauseating - a veritable insult. I dearly hope that report is either inaccurate or that 2.5 is just a bargaining position designed to shove PK hard off whatever perch he's standing on. If Bergevin sincerely thinks under 3 mil is fair value for Subban, we really have to wonder about his talent evaluation. And frankly, if I were Subban, that's the sort of offer that would sour me on the organization, no matter how 'professional' and 'respectful' the tone of discussion is.

As for a trade, look, if you cannot sign the player then you do have to trade him. As I've said before, I would not seriously contemplate trading Subban unless he sits out the entire year AND appears un-signable heading into next season. He is an asset we will find almost impossible to replace.

[lazy26]

In light of all the other contracts signed, the rumoured $2.2M & $2.9M offers are appalling. I understand the supposed need for a bridge contract, but I think MB can do a bit better. $3.5M and $4M would seem more in line, even though PK is arguably still worth more than that.

[BCHabnut]

That offer is junk, but Del Zotto did get more points than him with less minutes. I don't think that 3.5 for two years would be a slap in the face. 2.5 seems awfully low though. 26.5 for 5 years actually seems like a descent number. I would like to see PK put his time in as well. He isn't Chara. But if there was a bit of room to come down on his 5 year deal, that would be fair price. I actually think the numbers for the five year deal look more fair than the numbers for the 2 year deal that Bergevin is proposing. That is, if these rumours hold any value at all.

[Commandant]

If that report is accurate, the Habs's offer is nauseating - a veritable insult. I dearly hope that report is either inaccurate or that 2.5 is just a bargaining position designed to shove PK hard off whatever perch he's standing on. If Bergevin sincerely thinks under 3 mil is fair value for Subban, we really have to wonder about his talent evaluation. And frankly, if I were Subban, that's the sort of offer that would sour me on the organization, no matter how 'professional' and 'respectful' the tone of discussion is.

As for a trade, look, if you cannot sign the player then you do have to trade him. As I've said before, I would not seriously contemplate trading Subban unless he sits out the entire year AND appears un-signable heading into next season. He is an asset we will find almost impossible to replace.

Here's the problem.... If Bergevin values Subban as a 2.5 million per year player? do you think he is assessing the value properly to trade this guy?

I think if we trade him, we're gonna give him up for a song.

[Helmethead]

What does $2.9 mil equate to value wise with the cap rolling to +$63 mil next year?

In other words we tend to forget that cap is coming down next year and his salary in terms of % of total cap would be similar to what a comparable RFA would have made under the previous CBA.