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You're Marc Bergevin - What deal do you offer Subban?


dlbalr

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Exactly my point through this whole thread.

Consider PK gone at 27.

You do realize that throughout this whole process (including knowing about this low offer if the report is true), he's asking for a term that would take him past 27? By no means does this negotiation mean that he's going to bolt at the first opportunity. People said the same about Price when he went the entire offseason negotiating his bridge deal a few couple of years ago and lo and behold, he signed for six more years when he could've been a UFA in two seasons.

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You do realize that throughout this whole process (including knowing about this low offer if the report is true), he's asking for a term that would take him past 27? By no means does this negotiation mean that he's going to bolt at the first opportunity. People said the same about Price when he went the entire offseason negotiating his bridge deal a few couple of years ago and lo and behold, he signed for six more years when he could've been a UFA in two seasons.

But he received what he deserved for his bridge contract. If Subban's have to sign Del Zotto's deal, I would bet a lot that he'll clearly remember that when 27 comes...

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What does $2.9 mil equate to value wise with the cap rolling to +$63 mil next year?

In other words we tend to forget that cap is coming down next year and his salary in terms of % of total cap would be similar to what a comparable RFA would have made under the previous CBA.

The cap is 64.3 million next year, or exactly the same as what it was in 2011-12

For that reason there isn't much adjustment you have to make.

Consider that Tyler Myers deal was signed under the same cap number 64.3, and he isn't as good as PK IMO.

I don't believe he's going to trade him. He's going to let him sit until Subban asks for a trade or Subban signs an offer sheet. Trading him will make Bergevin look worse than he already does. Letting Subban make the decision takes some heat off of his back.

OK great.

Subban asks for a trade

We have a GM who undervalues him... and is now behind the 8 ball because every other team knows we have to get rid of him.

This is HORRID asset management.

This is setting up to be Houle level bad.

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It is. And when Galchenyuk is up in 2015, do you think Igor Larionov is going to suggest Galchenyuk should take a bridge contract? Please.

BOOOM !!!

As a GM (and as a franchise) if you had to pick ONE guy to bank on and risk long term deal without a bridge contract, it was PK.

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But he received what he deserved for his bridge contract. If Subban's have to sign Del Zotto's deal, I would bet a lot that he'll clearly remember that when 27 comes...

He might, he might not; lots can happen between now and then. There's no way it can be stated definitively based on a reported offer which may or may not be true that he is definitely leaving in 4 years...again, especially considering that even with this alleged offer on the table, he's asking for a contract that would make him stay longer. If this truly was to push him over the edge, why isn't he asking for a trade now? Why stay in a place for 4 years that you already know you want to leave? Why ask for a contract (5+ years) that would make him stay even longer?

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He might, he might not; lots can happen between now and then. There's no way it can be stated definitively based on a reported offer which may or may not be true that he is definitely leaving in 4 years...again, especially considering that even with this alleged offer on the table, he's asking for a contract that would make him stay longer. If this truly was to push him over the edge, why isn't he asking for a trade now? Why stay in a place for 4 years that you already know you want to leave? Why ask for a contract (5+ years) that would make him stay even longer?

You're 23. As a kid, your dad's favourite team was the Montreal Canadiens. Your favourite team is the Montreal Canadiens. All throughout your young years growing up in the GTA and playing in Belleville, you were surrounded by Leaf fans and had to defend your team the entire time. Now comes the draft. The Montreal Canadiens draft you in the second round when you shouldn't have slipped out of the first. You become a superstar on the team and even position yourself as one of their best players. You want to win on this team more than anything. You probably created yourself in hockey video games then added yourself on Montreal so you could see yourself hoist the Cup. You want this more than anything.

And then your GM low balls you on an offer and refuses to budge on it. Basically saying, "We don't think you're anywhere near as important to this team as you do. We think you're on the same level of importance to us as Brandon Prust. We have contract rules here and you need to follow them. We don't care how good you were last year. We have a team to run here. Take it or sit."

How would you feel? Would you immediately look to play for another team or would you try to figure out every possible way to stay in a Habs uniform without destroying your dignity? We're talking a guy potentially accepting the loss of $5M just because the GM of the team who didn't watch him play all of last year doesn't think he's worth it. Who think he's worth the same as #4 Defenceman on the Rangers Michael Del Zotto.

I'd feel pretty conflicted and wonder what's more important, being a Montreal Canadien or getting what I deserve?

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The del Zotto deal is closer to his value then the Doughty deal Subban reportedly wanted. I doubt he is going to pout and bolt two years later if offered a long term deal in two years time.

Is 5 in two too low, probably, but that isn't the deal yet. I am comfortable with 6 to 7 over two years being a fair value for a bridge deal. I don't see how that is insulting given it is two RFA years.

I also note that no offer sheet as been signed. If someone was offering a big deal, PK would have signed it by now to force the issue. I don't believe one exists. I wouldn't be surprised if Bergevin has been offered a trade.

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Exactly my point through this whole thread.

Consider PK gone at 27.

I agree that a $2.5m offer is lowball and BS. Bergevin deserves some ridicule if true.

I'm calling you out on your comment that this was your point. That's a complete lie.

You were in the camp wanting to pay Subban like a $6M UFA...so this was not your "point".

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Del zotto played on a much better team and was a 3rd pairing D. There is no comparasion. To me del zotto is like a MAB, while Subban has Chelios potential - but with more offensive upside.

That offer is junk, but Del Zotto did get more points than him with less minutes. I don't think that 3.5 for two years would be a slap in the face. 2.5 seems awfully low though. 26.5 for 5 years actually seems like a descent number. I would like to see PK put his time in as well. He isn't Chara. But if there was a bit of room to come down on his 5 year deal, that would be fair price. I actually think the numbers for the five year deal look more fair than the numbers for the 2 year deal that Bergevin is proposing. That is, if these rumours hold any value at all.

Yep the habs may control him until 27, but treat him like shit and he is gone at 27.

Exactly my point through this whole thread.

Consider PK gone at 27.

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Yep. I said last year, the habs should sign him for 12 years to a cap friendly Myers type of contract. MB is a FRIGGIN idiot!

BOOOM !!!

As a GM (and as a franchise) if you had to pick ONE guy to bank on and risk long term deal without a bridge contract, it was PK.

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Just reading through the thread. Has Subban asked to be traded?? Source??

If we lose him MB should be shot. Frigigin idiot!! I

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You're 23. As a kid, your dad's favourite team was the Montreal Canadiens. Your favourite team is the Montreal Canadiens. All throughout your young years growing up in the GTA and playing in Belleville, you were surrounded by Leaf fans and had to defend your team the entire time. Now comes the draft. The Montreal Canadiens draft you in the second round when you shouldn't have slipped out of the first. You become a superstar on the team and even position yourself as one of their best players. You want to win on this team more than anything. You probably created yourself in hockey video games then added yourself on Montreal so you could see yourself hoist the Cup. You want this more than anything.

Shouldn't have slipped out of the 1st? He was ranked 102nd by Central Scouting, I seem to recall his selection being termed a huge gamble. This wasn't a Collberg situation by any stretch.

And then your GM low balls you on an offer and refuses to budge on it. Basically saying, "We don't think you're anywhere near as important to this team as you do. We think you're on the same level of importance to us as Brandon Prust. We have contract rules here and you need to follow them. We don't care how good you were last year. We have a team to run here. Take it or sit."

How would you feel? Would you immediately look to play for another team or would you try to figure out every possible way to stay in a Habs uniform without destroying your dignity? We're talking a guy potentially accepting the loss of $5M just because the GM of the team who didn't watch him play all of last year doesn't think he's worth it. Who think he's worth the same as #4 Defenceman on the Rangers Michael Del Zotto.

I'd feel pretty conflicted and wonder what's more important, being a Montreal Canadien or getting what I deserve?

You make a fair case. It may just be me but I don't find the notion of offering a bridge contract to be an insult. This is the way the Habs, and quite a few other teams, do business with their RFA's. Is this reported offer too low? Of course it is, I've acknowledged that already. Is his asking price too high? I believe so and evidently the Habs do as well. I think this is, in part, akin to the first series of CBA offers. The NHL tabled theirs, we all knew it was unrealistically low, just like this is. The PA tabled theirs, we all knew it was unrealistic, just like Subban's asking price is - I know some here don't share this opinion (and we've all made our points by now on it), but that's just me. Eventually (we hope), both sides more to something more amenable.

I will say this though - if Subban wants to exhaust all options to stay in a Montreal uniform, why is he entirely against the notion of a sub-4-year deal? Conversely, Bergevin should at least entertain the thought of going longer term as well. Compromise needs to be made and the sooner the better.

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The del Zotto deal is closer to his value then the Doughty deal Subban reportedly wanted.

He never said he wanted Doughty money. Not once was that reported either. Stubbs even posted that the money Meehan/Subban are looking for is not Doughty money.

You'll say anything to defend your point that Subban should go.

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BOOOM !!!

As a GM (and as a franchise) if you had to pick ONE guy to bank on and risk long term deal without a bridge contract, it was PK.

Yeah, so overpay Subban now and Galy next year right? Overpay any entry level guys too right? Wouldn't want to hurt anyone's FEELINGS in case they get a boo boo on their heart and won't re-sign.

Seriously, you just don't understand money, finance, budgeting...just give it up Joe. Signing Subban to the level you suggested earlier in this thread would leave these team mired as a 5th to 8th place playoff team.

Whoever said they need reasonable deals, with talent, at all three tiers entry level, RFA and UFA was bang on.

Subban is 23 and a man. He knows it's a business...THATS WHY HE IS SITTING OUT. This will not impact his decision when he's 27...assuming of course he even has a career that makes the team want to resign him which you mistakenly take as a given.

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I agree that a $2.5m offer is lowball and BS. Bergevin deserves some ridicule if true.

I'm calling you out on your comment that this was your point. That's a complete lie.

You were in the camp wanting to pay Subban like a $6M UFA...so this was not your "point".

As stated on page 5 or 6 of this thread, I'm still in the camp of 40M$ for 8 years (cap hit of 5M$). It is true.

I trully believe that this offer would have become a steal by year 3 of this contract.

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Yep. I said last year, the habs should sign him for 12 years to a cap friendly Myers type of contract. MB is a FRIGGIN idiot!

If Subban is looking for 5 or 6 years now (not even the max), there's no guarantee he'd have wanted 12. And certainly no guarantee that ownership would approve that, a 12 year deal isn't something that just the GM has a hand in. Too much of a hypothetical to call anyone an idiot in my opinion. Heck, I'm not even sure that Myers' deal is cap friendly...

Just reading through the thread. Has Subban asked to be traded?? Source??

If we lose him MB should be shot. Frigigin idiot!! I

No. It's merely speculation from a couple of posters.

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Yeah, so overpay Subban now and Galy next year right? Overpay any entry level guys too right? Wouldn't want to hurt anyone's FEELINGS in case they get a boo boo on their heart and won't re-sign.

If you think Igor Larionov is going to let Galchenyuk take a bridge contract, you're sorely mistaken.

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Yeah, so overpay Subban now and Galy next year right? Overpay any entry level guys too right? Wouldn't want to hurt anyone's FEELINGS in case they get a boo boo on their heart and won't re-sign.

Seriously, you just don't understand money, finance, budgeting...just give it up Joe. Signing Subban to the level you suggested earlier in this thread would leave these team mired as a 5th to 8th place playoff team.

Whoever said they need reasonable deals, with talent, at all three tiers entry level, RFA and UFA was bang on.

Subban is 23 and a man. He knows it's a business...THATS WHY HE IS SITTING OUT. This will not impact his decision when he's 27...assuming of course he even has a career that makes the team want to resign him which you mistakenly take as a given.

So, I assume Bob Murray in Anaheim doesn't understand money, finance and budgeting as well ?

I'm convinced that a happy Subban locked long term at 5M$ of cap hit since day 1 of training camp would have been better for this team than an unhappy Subban signed for 2 years at 2,5M$.

I'm really affraid of how any bad streak by Subban will end up. I trully hope that he plays A++++ hockey.

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He never said he wanted Doughty money. Not once was that reported either. Stubbs even posted that the money Meehan/Subban are looking for is not Doughty money.

You'll say anything to defend your point that Subban should go.

What are you talking about... I have never made the point that PK should go...you should calm down, you seem to be in a PK induced frenzy. Accusing me of lying is a bit out of line.

It was wildly reported that PK stated he wanted a long term, doughty type deal before the lockout. Not the exact same price. Even Meehan stated that was the kind of long term deal they were after. He stated 6 years, 36 million. It has as much behind it as the report that Bergevin only offered 2.5 a year, but you want the GM fired for losing PK before he is even gone.

You can go back to the day we drafted this kid and see I was one of his biggest fans. I did warn at the time that he could be defensively risky and used his speed in the OHL to bail himself out, but that wouldn't work in the nhl. He would have to learn to be better defensively. Was I wrong? That said, I was clear that he had a bright future if we didn't screw up his development.

I have watched PK play since he was a Bull. I have been on the ice with him. My niece hung out with him in school. I have met his brothers and had them teaching my kid in goalie clinics... They are an amazing group of players and PK is my favourite player on the habs.

All that said, I am in favor of a bridge deal. I think that policy is best for the habs and even for PK. You have to put emotion aside and think like a GM, not a fan. Read my posts... It is no secret that I am not a fan of very long term deals for any player in this league. I am not picking on PK.

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What are you talking about... I have never made the point that PK should go...you should calm down, you seem to be in a PK induced frenzy. Accusing me of lying is a bit out of line.

It was wildly reported that PK stated he wanted a long term, doughty type deal before the lockout. Not the exact same price. Even Meehan stated that was the kind of long term deal they were after. He stated 6 years, 36 million. It has as much behind it as the report that Bergevin only offered 2.5 a year, but you want the GM fired for losing PK before he is even gone.

You can go back to the day we drafted this kid and see I was one of his biggest fans. I did warn at the time that he could be defensively risky and used his speed in the OHL to bail himself out, but that wouldn't work in the nhl. He would have to learn to be better defensively. Was I wrong? That said, I was clear that he had a bright future if we didn't screw up his development.

I have watched PK play since he was a Bull. I have been on the ice with him. My niece hung out with him in school. I have met his brothers and had them teaching my kid in goalie clinics... They are an amazing group of players and PK is my favourite player on the habs.

All that said, I am in favor of a bridge deal. I think that policy is best for the habs and even for PK. You have to put emotion aside and think like a GM, not a fan. Read my posts... It is no secret that I am not a fan of very long term deals for any player in this league. I am not picking on PK.

Very well said, by somebody who knows P.K., likes him, but can keep his emotions in check.

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If they can't come to an agreement, Edmonton would make a great trading partner. They have room to sign him where Philly doesn't. It would also get him out of our conference.

I am not saying we should do it, but if it comes to that, it makes way more sense then Philly, IMO.

I would not mind Nudgent-Hophins for P.K. Throw in Desharnais and Weber for good measure. LOL

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