Zowpeb Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Had a pretty long day at the office, heard the news on the drive home - glad to have him back, I think this really solidifies our D. However, whether this was the right approach can't really be judged until 2 years. At that point we will find out two things. 1) Will there be any hard feelings when we have to sign Subban to the next contract and whether he is going to make us pay for it at that time. 2) Will it cost us significantly more to resign him in two years then it would have to lock him up now. Seriously? If he feels so bad that he holds a grudge and doesn't want to re-sign then you don't want him on the team. He's a professional and knows this is a business. The Habs know full well they'll have to pay more, and longer, if he continues to grow as a player and compete at a high level...but it was an unwarranted risk to do so now and would have set a dangerous precedent for future RFA signings. This deal is perfect for both Subban and the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Seriously? If he feels so bad that he holds a grudge and doesn't want to re-sign then you don't want him on the team. He's a professional and knows this is a business. The Habs know full well they'll have to pay more, and longer, if he continues to grow as a player and compete at a high level...but it was an unwarranted risk to do so now and would have set a dangerous precedent for future RFA signings. This deal is perfect for both Subban and the Habs. I share your point of view. I would say that there is a contradiction in thinking that we should have signed him long term right now, because he will cost us more in two years. The Habs don't want to be unfair, they want to take the best decision, hence two more years to evaluate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I don't know about anyone else but I'm elated to see Colin happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay12 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Had a pretty long day at the office, heard the news on the drive home - glad to have him back, I think this really solidifies our D. However, whether this was the right approach can't really be judged until 2 years. At that point we will find out two things. 1) Will there be any hard feelings when we have to sign Subban to the next contract and whether he is going to make us pay for it at that time. 2) Will it cost us significantly more to resign him in two years then it would have to lock him up now. It may cost us a million more to sign him long term but that will be much better than trying to sign PK as a 28 year old UFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bostonhabs Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 It may cost us a million more to sign him long term but that will be much better than trying to sign PK as a 28 year old UFA No way P.K would have signed for 5 mil or less for 8 yrs. Him and his agent are looking at markov's deal and thinking they can get the same or better. Before markov proved he is still the same guy everyone was saying he was habs # 1 d man. After this contract he will want big money. Great signing for both sides at the moment the team saves money and gets a very good d man back and P.K gets to prove his worth to make a case for the big deal that elite d men get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Great signing by Bergevin. He has shown to everybody that you don't fool around with him. He kept his cards close to his chest, had a plan and followed it until the end. Cooler heads prevailed and that's the way it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Louis Jean of TVA says 2M$ this year and 3.75 next year The big thing about the Subban contract is the way it is back loaded. 2 mill in the first year and 3.75 in the second. With the first season being lockout shortened, subject to high escrow, and prorated salaries, and the second season being when “make whole” kicks in. Meehan did a great job of getting his client money in the year he’ll actually get to see more of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 The big thing about the Subban contract is the way it is back loaded. 2 mill in the first year and 3.75 in the second. With the first season being lockout shortened, subject to high escrow, and prorated salaries, and the second season being when “make whole” kicks in. Meehan did a great job of getting his client money in the year he’ll actually get to see more of it. This contract is fair. Whatever your opinion, almost $3.75 in the 2nd year is a lot of money. He just has to perform to his potential and nobody will have to worry for his future anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 He is getting almost $4 next year. They weighted it for his benefit as this year is prorated. Of course he had to come down... His next contract will be a big one if he earns it. They are professionals and this is just business negotiations. PK was telling people he knows last week that he would be signing and he was looking forward to getting back on the ice. Also the 3.75 means that his qualifying offer in 2014 will be that much higher. Bergevin must at least match 3.75 as a QO or Subban becomes an unrestricted free agent. It means that the "low ball" on the next contract is already up to 3.75 (or you let him walk), which is a significant place for the GM's starting position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Also the 3.75 means that his qualifying offer in 2014 will be that much higher. Bergevin must at least match 3.75 as a QO or Subban becomes an unrestricted free agent. It means that the "low ball" on the next contract is already up to 3.75 (or you let him walk), which is a significant place for the GM's starting position. No problem with that. Some guys were already talking about 5 or 6 million right now, on a long term contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Bergevin even said yesterday, think like a fan and you will soon be one... He stuck to his guns and helped put a stop to this "big money on the 2nd contract" that was creeping in. Worse axe for PK is a high qualifier and arbitration in two years, so this is a good deal for him. If he plays well, I would be surprised if he didn't sign a long term extension mid to late next year. Both sides seem pleased with the deal. Honestly, with so little leverage Meehan knew the big contract was a long shot. I think this plays well for future discussions with Galy. We burn a year of his entry level deal, but that makes it easier to sign him to a bridge deal as he will only have two full years before the bridge deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Brobin, you make a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Brobin, you make a lot of sense. Thank you...please tell my wife that. Meehan is just on sportsnet and stated that one difference between Doughty and PK was that LA gave Kopitar a big 2nd contract, while Montreal consistently had not done that. Doughty was able to use that against LA in Negotiations. I think this is clear evidence of why it was so important for Bergevin to hold the line. Had he given in he would have had trouble with every kid coming off an entry deal. He also said that Bergevin gave him every indication that if PK continues to play well, they would be very serious about putting in place a long term deal next time. He also said it was never a secret that PK wants to be in Montreal for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 So. All the panic proved groundless. 'Hard feelings' might be an issue, but only if PK is one pigheaded SOB. He gets almost 4 mil next year - as Commandant says, the year when it counts - and that is fair value for a #2 RFA defenceman. Meanwhile, his cap hit is friendly. This really does look like a win-win. Good job MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Meehan is just on sportsnet and stated that one difference between Doughty and PK was that LA gave Kopitar a big 2nd contract, while Montreal consistently had not done that. Doughty was able to use that against LA in Negotiations. I think this is clear evidence of why it was so important for Bergevin to hold the line. Had he given in he would have had trouble with every kid coming off an entry deal. For anyone interested, here is the interview (it's a good listen): http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-3/Don-Meehan-with-Daren-Millard,-Nick-Kypreos-and-Doug-MacLean-bl-20130129-Interview.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 So. All the panic proved groundless. 'Hard feelings' might be an issue, but only if PK is one pigheaded SOB. He gets almost 4 mil next year - as Commandant says, the year when it counts - and that is fair value for a #2 RFA defenceman. Meanwhile, his cap hit is friendly. This really does look like a win-win. Good job MB You got it right. Groundless panic. MB knows his job and certainly doesn't deserve to be fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 So. All the panic proved groundless. 'Hard feelings' might be an issue, but only if PK is one pigheaded SOB. He gets almost 4 mil next year - as Commandant says, the year when it counts - and that is fair value for a #2 RFA defenceman. Meanwhile, his cap hit is friendly. This really does look like a win-win. Good job MB I don't share your view of a fair deal for Subban, I'm just happy to have him signed. If you want a funny read, go look up all the d-men in the league making $4 million or more a year and compare them to Subban and tell me if you still think it's a fair deal for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I don't share your view of a fair deal for Subban, I'm just happy to have him signed. If you want a funny read, go look up all the d-men in the league making $4 million or more a year and compare them to Subban and tell me if you still think it's a fair deal for him I said it was fair in the second year of the deal. You can point to overpaid defencemen who are worse than PK but make more money. But I could just as easily point to Dan Hamhuis (cap hit:$4.5 as a UFA), say, to make the opposite case. The $4 mil range is reasonable for Subban at this juncture of his career. The 2.5 in Year One is an obvious rip off, but as Commandant points out, the structure of the deal mitigates the impact of this somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I debate the 2nd year of the contract, the $3.75, because of the d-men getting paid over $4. We can argue that ALL athletes get paid too much, I'm just amazed that MB was able to pull this off, it just seems a bit of a low blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 ...yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I debate the 2nd year of the contract, the $3.75, because of the d-men getting paid over $4. We can argue that ALL athletes get paid too much, I'm just amazed that MB was able to pull this off, it just seems a bit of a low blow. It's certainly not because other defensemen are overpaid that it makes sense to do the same thing with our players. Quite the contrary, we have a GM who has a cool head and doesn't want to follow bad examples. Way to go Marc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 It's certainly not because other defensemen are overpaid that it makes sense to do the same thing with our players. Quite the contrary, we have a GM who has a cool head and doesn't want to follow bad examples. Way to go Marc! So who determines whats overpaying, by what scale are you using to measure worth? If you are not using other products (players) as a scale how can you determine whether or not Subban was over or underpaid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I'm of the opinion that Subban is grossly underpaid this year and a little underpaid on a bridge deal in the second year. Once Kaberle is off the books, Subban can be paid $2M or more to the $3.75M he gets next season and he'll get it on a long term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 So who determines whats overpaying, by what scale are you using to measure worth? If you are not using other products (players) as a scale how can you determine whether or not Subban was over or underpaid? Why argue about the situation? It's been resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. The deal is fair. More money at this point would have been a bad allocation of capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Why argue about the situation? It's been resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. The deal is fair. More money at this point would have been a bad allocation of capital. exactly. Glad this crap is over now lets go kick some Jets ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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