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Uh you do realize that Markov was top five in defence scoring this season right?

In 09-10 he only played 45 games but still cracked the Top 40. He played 78 games in 08-09 and was 2nd in D scoring.

It's starting to get depressing how people here have a lower opinion of their team than even our rivals.

...yes. That's why I said he was "above average" in his "speciality," which is offence. The Markov of last season was a bit of a disaster in his own end, at least in the second half - nothing like the all-around force of years gone-by. Now, I have a theory he'll do better with a full season under his belt, but based on last season, you have to class him as a one-dimensional defenceman.

Slagging the team wasn't my intent, but we all have to call 'em like we see 'em. Our D without Emelin is a problem.

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When you're top five in your position after having a bad second half, you're more than just "above average" in offence.

OK. We have one elite all-around defenceman, and a gaggle of one-dimensional blueliners, all of which are average (or worse) in their specialties except Markov, who is elite in the offensive aspect of the game.

Doesn't change the fact that our D on paper is unacceptable, depending hugely on Tinordi breaking out.

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OK. We have one elite all-around defenceman, and a gaggle of one-dimensional blueliners, all of which are average (or worse) in their specialties except Markov, who is elite in the offensive aspect of the game.

Doesn't change the fact that our D on paper is unacceptable, depending hugely on Tinordi breaking out.

Tinordi alone isn't going to be enough. We lack balance and have too many wildcards on defense.

Subban - bonafide #1 dman

Markov - solid #2 pairing

Gorges - at best a #4, on a good time, great 3rd pairing

Tinordi - Will be a good partner with Subban one day, today, HOPEFULLY a solid second pairing

Bouillon - seventh dman

Diaz - 3rd pairing dman that would be good with Gorges and PP specialist

Emelin - solid #2 pairing, but injured for around the first 3 months.

What we are missing is a guy who for sure can be a solid shut down partner for Subban, as well as a plan B if tinordi isn't up to being a solid #2 pairing.

Here's what I think of our defense.

Subban - Solid net clearing dman

Markov - Emelin (Gorges)

Tinordi - Diaz

Two wild cards are Belieau, who doesn't replace a physical net clearing need (would be a Diaz replacment) and Tinordi. He may be a solid partner for Subban and markov, but I'd be worried about starting the season by putting that pressure on him.

Long term, if all goes well with Beileau and tinordi, I'd still move Gorges and Diaz and pick up a more physical dman.

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Tinordi alone isn't going to be enough. We lack balance and have too many wildcards on defense.

Subban - bonafide #1 dman

Markov - solid #2 pairing

Gorges - at best a #4, on a good time, great 3rd pairing

Tinordi - Will be a good partner with Subban one day, today, HOPEFULLY a solid second pairing

Bouillon - seventh dman

Diaz - 3rd pairing dman that would be good with Gorges and PP specialist

Emelin - solid #2 pairing, but injured for around the first 3 months.

What we are missing is a guy who for sure can be a solid shut down partner for Subban, as well as a plan B if tinordi isn't up to being a solid #2 pairing.

Here's what I think of our defense.

Subban - Solid net clearing dman

Markov - Emelin (Gorges)

Tinordi - Diaz

Two wild cards are Belieau, who doesn't replace a physical net clearing need (would be a Diaz replacment) and Tinordi. He may be a solid partner for Subban and markov, but I'd be worried about starting the season by putting that pressure on him.

Long term, if all goes well with Beileau and tinordi, I'd still move Gorges and Diaz and pick up a more physical dman.

Totally agree. Long-term, though, you need to factor out Markov, probably. Might be worth keeping Diaz around even if Beaulieu emerges, depending on the former's progression, unless we imagine replacing Markov via UFA. As for Gorges, he's a useful guy but it is a legitimate question whether he projects to be part of a balanced D-corps.

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OK. We have one elite all-around defenceman, and a gaggle of one-dimensional blueliners, all of which are average (or worse) in their specialties except Markov, who is elite in the offensive aspect of the game.Doesn't change the fact that our D on paper is unacceptable, depending hugely on Tinordi breaking out.

Markov is also very solid defensively...and I would say was well above average defensively before the injury.

Gorges may not excel in any single aspect but he's got a good all around game...he just doesn't have any role offensively.

The D does need a strong defensive d-man...but just a steady guy to round them out, especially when Emelin is back.

Everyone seems to be writing Markov off and that he'll be gone as a UFA...why?

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Tinordi alone isn't going to be enough. We lack balance and have too many wildcards on defense.

Subban - bonafide #1 dman

Markov - solid #2 pairing

Gorges - at best a #4, on a good time, great 3rd pairing

Tinordi - Will be a good partner with Subban one day, today, HOPEFULLY a solid second pairing

Bouillon - seventh dman

Diaz - 3rd pairing dman that would be good with Gorges and PP specialist

Emelin - solid #2 pairing, but injured for around the first 3 months.

What we are missing is a guy who for sure can be a solid shut down partner for Subban, as well as a plan B if tinordi isn't up to being a solid #2 pairing.

Here's what I think of our defense.

Subban - Solid net clearing dman

Markov - Emelin (Gorges)

Tinordi - Diaz

Two wild cards are Belieau, who doesn't replace a physical net clearing need (would be a Diaz replacment) and Tinordi. He may be a solid partner for Subban and markov, but I'd be worried about starting the season by putting that pressure on him.

Long term, if all goes well with Beileau and tinordi, I'd still move Gorges and Diaz and pick up a more physical dman.

Hey hab29RETIRED, quiz for you :

Question 1 : Who's the dman who went from Colorado to St-Louis in the Stewart/E.Johnson deal ?

Question 2 : There were 2 brothers named Rob and Scott in the NHL not so long ago, what is their last name ?

Question 3 : Which Czech goaltender played for Philly between 2000 and 2003 ?

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Not to fall back on a cliche, but Rome wasn't built in day.

Bergevin replaced Ryder with Briere and Armstrong with Parros. And say what you want about height, but there is no way that Ryder plays a tougher game than Briere because he's 2 inches taller.

So what has he done since losing in the first round? Drafted a 6'5" behemoth and a 6'2" centre with his first 2 picks, put himself in a better position to trade a roster player (probably one of Desharnais or Gionta) by bringing in a proven playoff performer, and replaced a player who lacked identity last season with someone who has a clearly defined role of protecting his teammates. And there are more free agents to come.

There are plenty of players left out there, and there are great players that are gonna be had for cheap deals. Or, you know, just sign Clarkson to a 7 year deal. Whatevs.

If the Habs start the season with this roster, you'll have more ammo to blow your brains out over size. Even then, I'm prepared to wait till the day after the trade deadline to see if we're too small for the playoffs.

TL;DR: There is more to come, and what's already arrived is pretty good.

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Not to fall back on a cliche, but Rome wasn't built in day.

Bergevin replaced Ryder with Briere and Armstrong with Parros. And say what you want about height, but there is no way that Ryder plays a tougher game than Briere because he's 2 inches taller.

So what has he done since losing in the first round? Drafted a 6'5" behemoth and a 6'2" centre with his first 2 picks, put himself in a better position to trade a roster player (probably one of Desharnais or Gionta) by bringing in a proven playoff performer, and replaced a player who lacked identity last season with someone who has a clearly defined role of protecting his teammates. And there are more free agents to come.

There are plenty of players left out there, and there are great players that are gonna be had for cheap deals. Or, you know, just sign Clarkson to a 7 year deal. Whatevs.

If the Habs start the season with this roster, you'll have more ammo to blow your brains out over size. Even then, I'm prepared to wait till the day after the trade deadline to see if we're too small for the playoffs.

TL;DR: There is more to come, and what's already arrived is pretty good.

Exactly. Bergevin and Therrien coming in meant the start of a new era. They want to take their vision and implement it to make a competitive team that will have a shot at the cup, that doesn't happen in a day. Pittsburgh sucked for years until they drafted the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Letang, Staal and they won a cup. Chicago waited 40 years until players like Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Kieth matured to get them a championship. Patience people, the Habs are on the right path and for the first time in a decade, we have a front office that seems stable enough and a future that never looked so bright.

Tinordi alone isn't going to be enough. We lack balance and have too many wildcards on defense.

Subban - bonafide #1 dman

Markov - solid #2 pairing

Gorges - at best a #4, on a good time, great 3rd pairing

Tinordi - Will be a good partner with Subban one day, today, HOPEFULLY a solid second pairing

Bouillon - seventh dman

Diaz - 3rd pairing dman that would be good with Gorges and PP specialist

Emelin - solid #2 pairing, but injured for around the first 3 months.

What we are missing is a guy who for sure can be a solid shut down partner for Subban, as well as a plan B if tinordi isn't up to being a solid #2 pairing.

Here's what I think of our defense.

Subban - Solid net clearing dman

Markov - Emelin (Gorges)

Tinordi - Diaz

Two wild cards are Belieau, who doesn't replace a physical net clearing need (would be a Diaz replacment) and Tinordi. He may be a solid partner for Subban and markov, but I'd be worried about starting the season by putting that pressure on him.

Long term, if all goes well with Beileau and tinordi, I'd still move Gorges and Diaz and pick up a more physical dman.

This is why a guy like Coburn/Edler would be welcome.

We don't need more size, we need more skill.

You know how we'll put more size in our top six? By putting two of our third liners from last season in it. You know, Galchenyuk and Eller?

Also, we don't play a top six game anyway. We spread our forwards between three lines. Right now we're running with Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Eller, Gionta, Briere, Gallagher, Bourque and Desharnais. Guys like Desharnais and Bourque need to be replaced by better players, not bigger players.

Every division is tight right now, but for the new East I'd say we're definitely better than Tampa, Florida and Buffalo in our own division. In the other east division we're better than Philadelphia, Columbus, New Jersey and Long Island.

YES!!! David did beat Goliath. For a team like us who spreads forwards between lines, skill and will should be prioritized. Sure, having a couple of big players to protect the small ones is helpful, but a player with heart and skill is 1000x better than a big guy. Moen? Plays like a wimp while Gallagher plays like he's a power forward.

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We don't need more size, we need more skill.

You know how we'll put more size in our top six? By putting two of our third liners from last season in it. You know, Galchenyuk and Eller?

Also, we don't play a top six game anyway. We spread our forwards between three lines. Right now we're running with Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Eller, Gionta, Briere, Gallagher, Bourque and Desharnais. Guys like Desharnais and Bourque need to be replaced by better players, not bigger players.

Every division is tight right now, but for the new East I'd say we're definitely better than Tampa, Florida and Buffalo in our own division. In the other east division we're better than Philadelphia, Columbus, New Jersey and Long Island.

I'd say we're better than Buff and Fla. It's a toss-up with Tampa,Philly,Columbus,NJ, NYR ,Car and NYI for the last couple of spots. Injuries and transactions will decide

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Not to fall back on a cliche, but Rome wasn't built in day.

Bergevin replaced Ryder with Briere and Armstrong with Parros. And say what you want about height, but there is no way that Ryder plays a tougher game than Briere because he's 2 inches taller.

So what has he done since losing in the first round? Drafted a 6'5" behemoth and a 6'2" centre with his first 2 picks, put himself in a better position to trade a roster player (probably one of Desharnais or Gionta) by bringing in a proven playoff performer, and replaced a player who lacked identity last season with someone who has a clearly defined role of protecting his teammates. And there are more free agents to come.

There are plenty of players left out there, and there are great players that are gonna be had for cheap deals. Or, you know, just sign Clarkson to a 7 year deal. Whatevs.

If the Habs start the season with this roster, you'll have more ammo to blow your brains out over size. Even then, I'm prepared to wait till the day after the trade deadline to see if we're too small for the playoffs.

TL;DR: There is more to come, and what's already arrived is pretty good.

Why would a team trade for Gio,coming off 2 bicep surgeries and a $5m contract,when they could have picked up Briere cheaper,without giving up an asset.And last I checked there's not a market for a 5'6 center being paid $14m over the next 4 yrs. Markov is our best trade bait as far as salary dumping is concerned

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You checked? Really?

And people told you that a guy who can score 45-55 points at centre wasn't worth 3.5 million a year for 4 years.

Who did you check with? What GMs take your phone calls?

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I think this skill, size, heart thing has got well out of hand. I read I believe everyones diatribe including Dlbairs. There may be some truth to one trumping another if you are comparing individuals. However last I checked, this is a team sport you need them all. Secondly, your balance sheet won't let you have 13 #1 forwards and 7#1 defenseman. You got to balance your wage earners out.

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Why would a team trade for Gio,coming off 2 bicep surgeries and a $5m contract,when they could have picked up Briere cheaper,without giving up an asset.And last I checked there's not a market for a 5'6 center being paid $14m over the next 4 yrs. Markov is our best trade bait as far as salary dumping is concerned

At the end of the day, everyone is tradeable. With Gionta being in the last year of his current deal, absolutely he can be traded. I would hang on to him to see how he bounces back from his latest injury. If he scores say 15 goals by the trade deadline - somebody will want him.

My gut tells me that Montreal will hang on to Markov and offer him a new contract this summer.

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Montreal will hang onto Markov for the powerplay, but I agree about Gio and Desharnais.

Gionta is untradeable at this point, if he stays healthy, we may be able to get a 2nd or a prospect for him at the deadline. (Assuming we're sellers.)

Desharnais isn't untradeable, but at the end of the day, strength and size are winning the day with the GMs of the league. I could see maybe Calgary or Tampa Bay trading for him. (They are idiots).

Nathan Gerbe-No contract. Same size as Desharnais, not the same production, but he's a borderline second liner, can get you 35-40 points (same as Desharnais going forward imo) and no one has signed him yet, even though he's worth around 1-1.5 million a year.

Ryane Clowe/Clarkson-Grit guys who got the biggest contracts of the day.

Ryder-Same money as Desh, proven 30 goal scorer, on a short term.

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Montreal will hang onto Markov for the powerplay, but I agree about Gio and Desharnais.

Gionta is untradeable at this point, if he stays healthy, we may be able to get a 2nd or a prospect for him at the deadline. (Assuming we're sellers.)

Desharnais isn't untradeable, but at the end of the day, strength and size are winning the day with the GMs of the league. I could see maybe Calgary or Tampa Bay trading for him. (They are idiots).

Nathan Gerbe-No contract. Same size as Desharnais, not the same production, but he's a borderline second liner, can get you 35-40 points (same as Desharnais going forward imo) and no one has signed him yet, even though he's worth around 1-1.5 million a year.

Ryane Clowe/Clarkson-Grit guys who got the biggest contracts of the day.

Ryder-Same money as Desh, proven 30 goal scorer, on a short term.

I love how you're calling Steve Yzerman an idiot.

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I love how you're calling Steve Yzerman an idiot.

I certainly am...

Take a look at these trades-

1. Cory Conacher and a 4th- Received Ben Bishop

2. Dustin Tokarski-Received C. Desjardins

3. 2 2nds a Third and Sebastien Caron-Anders Lindback/7th/Kyle Wilson

Three bad goalie trades in less than a year.

He got Cedric Desjardins/Lindback/Ben Bishop, Three back up goalies for

-Corey Conacher

-Dustin Tokarski

-2 2nds/1 3rd/1 4th

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You checked? Really?

And people told you that a guy who can score 45-55 points at centre wasn't worth 3.5 million a year for 4 years.

Who did you check with? What GMs take your phone calls?

I have a fetish with big tough players .You have a fetish for smurfs. Somewhere in between is probably the right way to go. You should have watched the Ottawa series to see what DD is worth. Any team with interest will/did. it's not much.What else does he bring besides passing skills. Speed,defense,goal scoring,bodychecking ?

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I have a fetish with big tough players .You have a fetish for smurfs. Somewhere in between is probably the right way to go. You should have watched the Ottawa series to see what DD is worth. Any team with interest will/did. it's not much.What else does he bring besides passing skills. Speed,defense,goal scoring,bodychecking ?

Speed : no

Defense : ok

Goal scoring : ok

Bodychecking : no

It doesn't fit the typical W profile, does it ?

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I don't have a fetish with any type of player. I just think that DD is worth more than you give him credit for.

Look around the league at what 45-55 point guys are signing for. This is what DD provides, the ability to play a secondary centre offensive role.... look at what they are getting 4million + in free agency, and tell me again why 3.5 is untradeable.

Just look at Derek Roy.

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Guest Stogey24

I don't have a fetish with any type of player. I just think that DD is worth more than you give him credit for.

Look around the league at what 45-55 point guys are signing for. This is what DD provides, the ability to play a secondary centre offensive role.... look at what they are getting 4million + in free agency, and tell me again why 3.5 is untradeable.

Just look at Derek Roy.

You gotta love how after a mediocre season(if that's the right choice of words), everyone turns on DD. 178 games played with 111 points, that's damn solid if you ask me.

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You gotta love how after a mediocre season(if that's the right choice of words), everyone turns on DD. 178 games played with 111 points, that's damn solid if you ask me.

We fans look at him like Philadelphia fans look at Morin, Lauridsen, Schenn etc. A good player, but a player that is totally redundant in our system.

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We fans look at him like Philadelphia fans look at Morin, Lauridsen, Schenn etc. A good player, but a player that is totally redundant in our system.

Morin redundant? The guy who hasn't even set foot on NHL ice for a game?

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