PK and the Olympics

[brobin]

Dreger tweeted today that based on his contacts, PK is a long shot to make the Olympic team, behind Boyle and Letang.

Wow...Norris winner, incredible skater, leading Defenceman again, and tons of international ice size experience. Long shot?

Old boys club picking there buddies or what?

[dlbalr]

This won't go over well but I'm not surprised. In a short competition like this, you don't want wildcards. With the style Subban plays, he's a wildcard. Will he play the system or go end-to-end frequently as he does with the Habs and ignore any passing avenues? The fact that he doesn't see a lot of penalty kill time will also work against him. The funny thing is, his mobility makes him a huge asset for the team but the coaching staff is going to be looking for dependability above all else. Given Subban's tendency to gamble, that will hurt his chances. I think he's certainly in the mix but far from a guarantee to make the team.

[Neech]

It's probably good for the Habs to have PK resting during that time and not risking injury, so I wouldn't mind if he doesn't go. Snubs didn't hurt Crosby or Stamkos on the ice.

I agree with what dlbalrlrllrlrlr said about PK being a wildcard in the eyes of the coaches, but I still think they're mistaken to value Letang over him.

[JMMR]

If he doesn't t make the team it's a joke plain and simple.

He is right now one of the top 5 defenseman in the world.

I'll honestly consider not watching the games if they don't take him.

Wildcards are important to have at defense and on forward because those creative players can help you score in tight games.

PK is also the 2nd best skater of all Canadian defenseman and his ability to score from 40 feet is incredibly important in what will be a power play heavy tournament.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Open Olympic Ice.

Best to select slow, plodding D over speedsters.

Letang and Subban would rip forwards apart but nope. Canada only cares about intangibles. Bring in the Rob Zamuners and Kris Drapers!

[zumpano21]

This is about two things and I hate to bring them up.

One - PK doesn't fit the mold for the boring, humble hockey type and two - skin colour. The combination of those two things may be too much for the powers that be.

[lazy26]

I'm with Jonathan; I could boycott the games if PK doesn't make the team. Despite the so-called elements supposedly working against him, it is those same elements that any team should covet in its lineup. I get that he's a bit of a wildcard, but you could pair your #1 defensive D with him and compensate.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

This is about two things and I hate to bring them up.

One - PK doesn't fit the mold for the boring, humble hockey type and two - skin colour. The combination of those two things may be too much for the powers that be.

it ain't skin colour though. Kris Letang is just as much of a long shot. Crosby is his only in for the team. Chris Kunitz has a better chance of making the team than both of them. Ponder that for a minute.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Not taking PK would be a totally, absolutely, cataclysmically and unforgivably stupid decision by a management team unduly influenced by irrelevant arguments about Subban's supposedly questionable 'character' and his supposedly 'high risk' style - both proxies for the kind of subliminal racism against an uppity black man that this fantastic player has had to put up with since entering the league. His exclusion would be an abject disgrace, not just to Canadian hockey, but to the nation that team claims to represent. Shame.

EDIT: I wouldn't be so quick to discount race. This has been working against Subban from the very start. The key is to recognize that racism doesn't have to be explicit - I'm sure all the old boys like Cherry would be genuinely appalled at being described as racist. Instead it works on a subtler level, influencing our gut responses without our explicit awareness (e.g., lots of people just feel more intimidated by a large black youth than by a similar white youth, without necessarily recognizing that race is the trigger for those feelings). The whole attack on Subban as "too brash" and somehow violating the code is partly conditioned by his skin colour IMHO. Put another way, if Tiger Williams had been black, he NEVER would have been the toast of HNIC.

[dlbalr]

Not taking PK would be a totally, absolutely, cataclysmically and unforgivably stupid decision by a management team unduly influenced by irrelevant arguments about Subban's supposedly questionable 'character' and his supposedly 'high risk' style - both proxies for the kind of subliminal racism against an uppity black man that this fantastic player has had to put up with since entering the league. His exclusion would be an abject disgrace, not just to Canadian hockey, but to the nation that team claims to represent. Shame.

It's not supposedly high risk, it is high risk. He pinches far too often at the blueline (he has burned a few times in recent games on that) and his end-to-end rushes would also qualify as risky as they often come when the team is changing meaning that there's no line of defence to back him up should he turn it over. That's not to say he's bad or undeserving of a spot but he does take a lot more chances than a typical d-man does. They work more often than not, of course, but they're a risk nonetheless.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It's not supposedly high risk, it is high risk. He pinches far too often at the blueline (he has burned a few times in recent games on that) and his end-to-end rushes would also qualify as risky as they often come when the team is changing meaning that there's no line of defence to back him up should he turn it over. That's not to say he's bad or undeserving of a spot but he does take a lot more chances than a typical d-man does. They work more often than not, of course, but they're a risk nonetheless.

He's such a strong skater that he recovers from most of his supposedly "risky" plays - a point that his critics often miss. Russia may as well leave off Ovechkin because he spends half the game floating. In any case, I'd be more persuaded by this argument if Team Canada had left Paul Coffey off its roster for the same reasons. And PK is a more complete defenceman than Coffey ever was. In short, I ain't buying it.

[zumpano21]

it ain't skin colour though. Kris Letang is just as much of a long shot. Crosby is his only in for the team. Chris Kunitz has a better chance of making the team than both of them. Ponder that for a minute.

I find that hard to believe. If a guy like Vlasic makes the team over a Norris trophy winner - it's nothing other than pathetic.

[dlbalr]

He's such a strong skater that he recovers from most of his supposedly "risky" plays - a point that his critics often miss.

To play devil's advocate, let's say they do acknowledge his recover-ability. It's one thing to get back playing against third and fourth line NHL'ers, it's another to do so against the 3rd or 4th line of a national team which may be populated by 1st and 2nd line NHL'ers. I could see someone trying to make that argument, will his 'stuff' hold against the best of the best? (To be clear, I think it would but I could see a critic opposed to him making the team using something to that effect to make their case.)

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

True enough, dlbalr - but you can make an argument against anybody, really, except maybe Crosby. I can see it now: "Joe Sakic fails to bring a physical element. We'd better not pick him for the 2002 squad." I mean, give me a break. PK's awesome and on no planet are there five superior Canadian defenders than him. That should end the discussion.

But what do we expect from the type of people who thought Adam Foote was a great pick in 2006.

[Neech]

I think they'd be wrong to pass him over, but wouldn't it benefit the Habs to have him well-rested? I'd be disappointed in Team Canada, but I wouldn't go so far as to boycott them (something I doubt any of you would actually follow through on). It would probably be best for the Habs if all their Olympic hopefuls (except maybe the goalies) got passed over and we had a healthy, rested team for the stretch run. Imagine if PK or Pleks got hurt over there.

[JoeLassister]

To play devil's advocate, let's say they do acknowledge his recover-ability. It's one thing to get back playing against third and fourth line NHL'ers, it's another to do so against the 3rd or 4th line of a national team which may be populated by 1st and 2nd line NHL'ers. I could see someone trying to make that argument, will his 'stuff' hold against the best of the best? (To be clear, I think it would but I could see a critic opposed to him making the team using something to that effect to make their case.)

Ok, but what tells us that PK will try his "stuff" agaisnt Olympic level competition. Maybe he recon that he's playing agaisnt 3rd or 4th line NHL'ers and this is why he's trying his "stuff". The minute PK Subban tone down his play, he becomes a real top 5 dman worldwide, IMO.

That being said, I agree that Subban rushes the play a bit too often, but when his options in front are Moen, White, Holland, Parros, etc, I would much rather have him get the puck in the zone himself.

[Dalhabs]

You should concider Bud Holloway for the olympics. He has been great on the big ice in the SHL for 2 years now. I will never happen but he would be a great fit I think.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11620

(Yes slow start this year but he will be back on track soon enough.)

[dlbalr]

Ok, but what tells us that PK will try his "stuff" agaisnt Olympic level competition. Maybe he recon that he's playing agaisnt 3rd or 4th line NHL'ers and this is why he's trying his "stuff". The minute PK Subban tone down his play, he becomes a real top 5 dman worldwide, IMO.

I didn't say it was a good argument, just that someone might use it. If I had to guess an answer to your question, likely that he has done it his whole career going back to junior so odds are he'd continue to do so.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Happy to hear it as an American!

I would rather play Dan Boyle and Jay Bouwmeester on the big ice.

PK must be beside himself, I say snub him, and he'll play better for the Habs. When Canada loses to the USA and PK get's 55-70 points, the pundits will eat Steve Yzerman alive. (Hard to believe that the whole country doesn't have a better GM than him, he is a marginal NHL GM at best; Lindy Ruff is a good choice, if you have a time machine to go back to 1999).

With those two at the helm, you're out of your mind to think that Team Canada is anything but a Boy's Club.

Jayson Megna, who's skating with Malkin is from FT Lauderdale...the takeover is almost complete.

USA USA USA

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Let's also remember that TSN has a terrible track record when it comes to the Habs in the last few years, Pierre LeBrun notwithstanding (since he really works for ESPN).

McKenzie told everyone he was sure that Subban was going to be traded. What happened?

[brobin]

pK is no more risky then Letang or Karlson. In fact, his defensive game is better. PK has shown a willingness to listen and play a role. Remember on the jr team when he was willing to basically be a forward on the PP.

If the goal is to win the gold, we need to bring the best players. We might end up in a final against the Russians and a creative, offensive player like PK might be the difference.

[hab29RETIRED]

REALLY??? Letang is pretty crappy defensively and his coaches have seemed to have given him the green light to rush much more than Subban has.

It's probably good for the Habs to have PK resting during that time and not risking injury, so I wouldn't mind if he doesn't go. Snubs didn't hurt Crosby or Stamkos on the ice.

I agree with what dlbalrlrllrlrlr said about PK being a wildcard in the eyes of the coaches, but I still think they're mistaken to value Letang over him.

I'm with Jonathan; I could boycott the games if PK doesn't make the team. Despite the so-called elements supposedly working against him, it is those same elements that any team should covet in its lineup. I get that he's a bit of a wildcard, but you could pair your #1 defensive D with him and compensate.

I'm rooting for the russians if Subban isn't on Canada.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'll watch the games, but I'll root for Markov and the russians or MaxPac/Gally on the Americans and i don't think i've ever rooted for the USA before. If there are no habs n Russia or USA, i'll root for Saku and the finns.

If he doesn't t make the team it's a joke plain and simple.

He is right now one of the top 5 defenseman in the world.

I'll honestly consider not watching the games if they don't take him.

Wildcards are important to have at defense and on forward because those creative players can help you score in tight games.

PK is also the 2nd best skater of all Canadian defenseman and his ability to score from 40 feet is incredibly important in what will be a power play heavy tournament.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I never exclusively cheer for Canada. Cheered for the Czech's in 98, Canada in 02, Sweden in 06, USA in 10 and this year not sure. Depends on if Galchenyuk makes Team USA or not.

[hab29RETIRED]

IF he isn't taken - it will be entirely about race. A flamboyount or vocal white player is colourful (i.e. Roenick, Hull), whereas a black player is uppity and not being white enough.

If Subban isn't selected it is NOT the same as Crosby being excluded (as a rookie), or Stamkos (not having his breakout until the Olympic year). Both exclsusions were mistakes, but exluding the reigning Norris winner is plain stupidity and there is no other explanation.

Not taking PK would be a totally, absolutely, cataclysmically and unforgivably stupid decision by a management team unduly influenced by irrelevant arguments about Subban's supposedly questionable 'character' and his supposedly 'high risk' style - both proxies for the kind of subliminal racism against an uppity black man that this fantastic player has had to put up with since entering the league. His exclusion would be an abject disgrace, not just to Canadian hockey, but to the nation that team claims to represent. Shame.

EDIT: I wouldn't be so quick to discount race. This has been working against Subban from the very start. The key is to recognize that racism doesn't have to be explicit - I'm sure all the old boys like Cherry would be genuinely appalled at being described as racist. Instead it works on a subtler level, influencing our gut responses without our explicit awareness (e.g., lots of people just feel more intimidated by a large black youth than by a similar white youth, without necessarily recognizing that race is the trigger for those feelings). The whole attack on Subban as "too brash" and somehow violating the code is partly conditioned by his skin colour IMHO. Put another way, if Tiger Williams had been black, he NEVER would have been the toast of HNIC.

Pinching didn't get Coffey exluded from the Canada Cup teams. He was much more high risk than Subban.

It's not supposedly high risk, it is high risk. He pinches far too often at the blueline (he has burned a few times in recent games on that) and his end-to-end rushes would also qualify as risky as they often come when the team is changing meaning that there's no line of defence to back him up should he turn it over. That's not to say he's bad or undeserving of a spot but he does take a lot more chances than a typical d-man does. They work more often than not, of course, but they're a risk nonetheless.