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habs rule

When does Therrien get fired?

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habs rule    392

With the remarks of MT tonite, we are going to lose PK Subban. I have wondered for a while about this relationship. To say that PK is the reason we lost to-nite is somewhat goofy. MT has shown his true colours again. PK just doesn't seem to be happy. MT should let PK play his game. MB needs to get this settled.

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Trizzak    439

To answer the question, when the Habs have a losing record and Bergevin thinks a coaching change will reverse that.

But what were the remarks?

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Commandant    603

He took over a 15th place team.

He led them to second place.

We are 8-7 and in a playoff spot.

I don't think its anytime soon.

=======

As for the stuff with PK.... MT was tough on him last year and it led to the best season of his career. He had a bad game tonight... MT is being tough with him. Some players have to be coddled and some need a kick in the ass. PK doesn't strike me as the type of kid who needs much coddling, seeing and hearing from his Dad, it sounds like the kick in the ass style of motivation is what he's got his whole life.

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habs rule    392

To answer the question, when the Habs have a losing record and Bergevin thinks a coaching change will reverse that.

But what were the remarks?

He said that PK was responsible for the 2nd and 3rd goal. Which may or may not be true but MT likes to throw his players under the bus and has once again done it. He really does not like PK. Pk will not re-sign in Montreal if he is going to be treated the way that MT treats him. I have wondered since last year about how MT handles the best defenceman we have had since I don't know when. There was simply no call for his petty remarks. I think it is a lot easier to get a coach than it is another Subban.

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habs rule    392

He took over a 15th place team.

He led them to second place.

We are 8-7 and in a playoff spot.

I don't think its anytime soon.

=======

As for the stuff with PK.... MT was tough on him last year and it led to the best season of his career. He had a bad game tonight... MT is being tough with him. Some players have to be coddled and some need a kick in the ass. PK doesn't strike me as the type of kid who needs much coddling, seeing and hearing from his Dad, it sounds like the kick in the ass style of motivation is what he's got his whole life.

Hey be tough with him, thats ok, in the dressing room. Not at a media scrum after a bad game. PK has pride. No need to coddle him but no need to humiliate him either.

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Commandant    603

There was an incident earlier this year where MT called out PK in the dressing room and it got filmed for 24CH.

The team asked PK if they wanted to air it, or if he'd rather it stay behind closed doors.

PK said to air it.... and that it didn't bother him.

I think we're overreacting.

PK knows as well as anyone that he messed up on a couple tonight.

In fact I bet he has a great game on Tuesday.

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hab29RETIRED    168

PK is only going to take so much. I think we are setting up another Roy - Tremblay situation here.

I think PK played well in spite of MT last year and we are risking alienating the most talented player we have had since Lafleur.

I don't see MT calling out Bouillon for being a pylon in the first goal. Why is it that when the win and lose its as a team, unless those instances when PK gets thrown under the bus when he makes a mistake?? This is bullshit. We made the wrong choice last year in not going with Roy rather than this blow hard MT.

There was an incident earlier this year where MT called out PK in the dressing room and it got filmed for 24CH.

The team asked PK if they wanted to air it, or if he'd rather it stay behind closed doors.

PK said to air it.... and that it didn't bother him.

I think we're overreacting.

PK knows as well as anyone that he messed up on a couple tonight.

In fact I bet he has a great game on Tuesday.

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I'd say about the same time JMMR and a few others get banned from here for calling him out in the thread. Therien is not Trembley and PK is not Roy. We are one month in, it is November. We are just getting over an injury hump, teams always lose when key players return from injury. Get over it.

On a side note, The Leafs lost, it is November, they will continue to lose.

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Link67    108

not grounds to fire MT over at all, just because one of our YOUNG stars has a bad game, and has been on a slippery slope with bad plays for 3 or 4 games now, does't mean MT can't drop the hammer on him once in awhile.

Subban has not been on top of his game lately, and last night was the worst he's looked all season, MT probably saw that he is slipping farther rather than recovering, and this lashing he hopes straightens the cart out. MT has done the same already this year with DD regarding his intensity and was all over White last season for his indiscipline, both young players in the organization with room to grow and be taught. Why should we baby Subban, why should he be exempt from a post game call out when he clearly plays well bellow his means and expectations? MT is doing nothing out of the ordinary here, people forget Subban is 24, still very young, and still very much in need of these kinds of things, he isn't a 32 year old veteran of 9 seasons here.

Subban has had the best year of his career under the hard teachings of MT, and maybe that is what he needs to succeed. I`m a huge Subban fan, but I, by no means think he deserves sheltering from a lashing when he clearly has a rough outing just because his name is PK Subban. MT is keeping it real and staying true to himself, PK knows that, and so do the other players, he hasn`t only called out PK in his time here, and he certainly won`t be the last player MT calls out in a media scrum.

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Lord knows, I was not a fan of the Therrien hiring and predicted he would start hot, then begin to lose the room in year two before being fired in year three. But nevertheless this thread seems wildly premature to me. People can always quibble with specific issues such as Desharnais's ice time or why he had so-and-so on the ice in such-and-such a situation. But when it comes to coaching, people tend to miss the forest for the trees. The bottom line is that until the last two games, we were at the top of the NHL in goals against, and Therrien's Habs have been a hard-working and effective team since he took over, even as the young players have absolutely flourished.

That's not a case for firing to me.

As for Subban, I've fretted all along that coaches are too prone to ignoring Hal Gill's advice ("you don't change PK. He's PK"). But Therrien's overall handling of young talent should give him the benefit of the doubt. As Link67 notes, different players require different approaches - time will tell, but panic isn't warranted. (One thing for sure, though - if we do end up losing Subban because of Therrien, I will never forgive him or the Habs).

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dlbalr    673

not grounds to fire MT over at all, just because one of our YOUNG stars has a bad game, and has been on a slippery slope with bad plays for 3 or 4 games now, does't mean MT can't drop the hammer on him once in awhile.

Subban has not been on top of his game lately, and last night was the worst he's looked all season, MT probably saw that he is slipping farther rather than recovering, and this lashing he hopes straightens the cart out. MT has done the same already this year with DD regarding his intensity and was all over White last season for his indiscipline, both young players in the organization with room to grow and be taught. Why should we baby Subban, why should he be exempt from a post game call out when he clearly plays well bellow his means and expectations? MT is doing nothing out of the ordinary here, people forget Subban is 24, still very young, and still very much in need of these kinds of things, he isn't a 32 year old veteran of 9 seasons here.

Subban has had the best year of his career under the hard teachings of MT, and maybe that is what he needs to succeed. I`m a huge Subban fan, but I, by no means think he deserves sheltering from a lashing when he clearly has a rough outing just because his name is PK Subban. MT is keeping it real and staying true to himself, PK knows that, and so do the other players, he hasn`t only called out PK in his time here, and he certainly won`t be the last player MT calls out in a media scrum.

Well put. You highlighted pretty much everything that came to mind when I started reading this thread.

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DON    28

I thought Saint Patricks comments about Therrian, Bergevin and hiring process last year was very nice to hear

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Chris    2

Yes, that was a good piece. MT will get close to the end of his contract. You heard it here first. Roy will be the next coach of the Habs, Probably in 3-4 years. Remember Roy gets player roster control here in Colorado, i'm guessing MB wouldn't do that but Colorago did. hence the Downey dismissal shortly after a problem between he a Landeskog.

MT has 2 problems IMO;

1. His man crush on DD and Boilloun. Once Moen and Emelin are back they shouldn't be playing except for injuries. )i'm guessing that won't happen)

2. I don't have a problem him calling out PK, however, you should praise him as well, he has been in on the last 4 goals the habs have scored. MT needs to call out many people on this team not just PK. Be fair MT. You will be gone before PK.

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Neech    82

I don't think PK really deserved to be called out last night even if he didn't have the best game. It seems like Therrien and Bergevin have more negative than positive to say in the media about Subban. Hopefully that's a part of a tough love strategy or something. When he signs a big contract (and it better be when, not if), we won't see these kinds of remarks about our highest-paid franchise player.

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Colin    163

It's part of the contract negotiations.

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habs rule    392

It's part of the contract negotiations.

That very well could be.

To clarify why I am more than a little worried about MT and Subban. There is a history of MT criticizing Subban back to when he was in the media. There is MT's need to throw players under the bus, see Pitsburgh and previous stint in Montreal. I was all for giving him a second chance, but if the leopard can't change his spots and Therrien can't learn from HIS mistakes, then he needs to go. While I don't believe his firing is imminent, I think that if he is going to have a negative relationship with PK then eventually, possibly sooner than we think, he has to go. I am not one to fire the coach kill the GM and trade the team after a loss, but the long term future of this this team is important. Having a pissed off Subban is not the way to go. I agree that PK has not being playing well the last 3-4 games, but why? Is it because he is tired of being the scapegoat? Is this a result of MT's constant criticism even when he plays well? Something is wrong with PK right now and I would like to know what it is. Maybe he has a boo boo, who knows? BTW who else has MT blamed for losses? Maybe a quick look in the mirror might be a good idea.

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Trizzak    439

Yes, that was a good piece. MT will get close to the end of his contract. You heard it here first. Roy will be the next coach of the Habs, Probably in 3-4 years. Remember Roy gets player roster control here in Colorado, i'm guessing MB wouldn't do that but Colorago did. hence the Downey dismissal shortly after a problem between he a Landeskog.

MT has 2 problems IMO;

1. His man crush on DD and Boilloun. Once Moen and Emelin are back they shouldn't be playing except for injuries. )i'm guessing that won't happen)

2. I don't have a problem him calling out PK, however, you should praise him as well, he has been in on the last 4 goals the habs have scored. MT needs to call out many people on this team not just PK. Be fair MT. You will be gone before PK.

Bouillon, yes. DD? His leash may have been a bit longer than I would have liked, but he has been putting DD in opportunities to succeed, which is probably the right call when a player has just been signed to a 4 year extension.

It's no man crush. It's trying to not embarrass your GM.

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I actually support Therrien's good-faith efforts to give Desharnais every opportunity to get back on track. He has done right by Desharnais and can now lower the boom with a clear conscience. Other players have noted that MT will give you a fair shot to work your way out of a slump, which helps them to trust him, while also knowing that this is still a results-driven business. No harm done at all.

One thing we can all agree on is that if it does come down to Subban or Therrien, we keep Subban. Absolutely ZERO argument about that, I notice.

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Link67    108

The Desharnais love is over anyway, he gave him his leash, and now he is yanking on it. Last night we saw DD nailed to the bench in the 3rd, and during the media scrum he called him out for not giving enough this season, and that he is forcing the coaches to make difficult decisions. Meaning next step for a wake up call will be in the press box i`m sure.

Like i said earlier, Therrien is being true to himself, he called out what he believes are 2 of his players that the team relies on for success, that didn`t get the job done last night, and haven`t been for a bit, and in DD`s case, all season.

Listen I don`t think anyone is going to argue that Subban isn't more important to the teams success than Therrien, by far. But the bottom line also is, if PK can`t handle a little spanking from time to time from his coach, and instead shuts down, wants out, doesn`t re-sign etc. then what does that tell us about his character and will to battle through a personal slump in his overall game? Make no mistake, Therrien is not simply picking on PK, he IS presently not delivering Norris or team Canada worthy performances, and Therrien does have the right to let him know about it.

Edited by Link67

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I didn't see the games, but he's the coach, and if the team isn't playing like they should, he has the media call out in his tool box. In Montreal, that can be a very effective tool. With any management position, you have to put pressure on your people below you. Subban is supposed to be a number one dman, if he isn't playing effectively for 25 minutes a game, they can't win. That's why you'll never hear him call out role players like Francis Boullion or Travis Moen. They aren't half as important in defeat or victory as the top 6 or top pairing.

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fromage    4

if the coach aint yelling at the players especially the star players, he aint being a good coach.

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hab29RETIRED    168

The issue is that, calling out in the media is the only tool MT has used with Subban. When Subban is playing well, MT has been saying it's all about the team and the team is playing well. When Subban and the team are playing like crap, the losses are all in Subban.

On one would be willing to stick around with that type of attitude from a coach. It's fine to say that if it comes down to choosing between the player and the coach, we'll pick the player. However, if it does come down to that and the player doesn't feel the organization is supporting him, it will be too late too choose, because he will want out by than.

The 9-1 or whatever it was loss against the wings was not an isolated incident for the Roy-tremblay rift. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. There were plenty of smaller things that were festering between Roy and tremblay.

Just because Subban said he was okay with the habs airing the segment on 24H, doesn't mean he was necessarily was happy that it aired.

I didn't see the games, but he's the coach, and if the team isn't playing like they should, he has the media call out in his tool box. In Montreal, that can be a very effective tool. With any management position, you have to put pressure on your people below you. Subban is supposed to be a number one dman, if he isn't playing effectively for 25 minutes a game, they can't win. That's why you'll never hear him call out role players like Francis Boullion or Travis Moen. They aren't half as important in defeat or victory as the top 6 or top pairing.

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Stogey24    253

They knew they were getting a fiery coach, having the players run the show didn't work out for Cunneyworth.

Cunneyworth was thrown into the shark tank.

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Cunneyworth was thrown into the shark tank.

Cunneyworth was a terrible coach who should have never been given a chance. Commandant favourite Don Lever would have been better.

He's the worst coach in Habs modern history.

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