Signing Subban re-signs, 8 years, $72 million ($9 M AAV)

[hab29RETIRED]

Until this year's Olympics, did boueester ever help his team win anything?? He was a loser in junior, and I think he's only been in the playoffs 2 or 3 times in his career. The flames were in a playoff spot when they traded for him and immidiately got worse.

In five years this will look like the Bouwmeester deal, without Bouwmeester. Friggin hate that guy. Now there's the defenseman you're thinking of. Never helped his team win a thing, had some high point totals and got locked into a cushy deal.

Until this year's Olympics, did bouwmeester ever help his team win anything?? He was a loser in junior, and I think he's only been in the playoffs 2 or 3 times in his career. The flames were in a playoff spot when they traded for him and immidiately got worse.

In five years this will look like the Bouwmeester deal, without Bouwmeester. Friggin hate that guy. Now there's the defenseman you're thinking of. Never helped his team win a thing, had some high point totals and got locked into a cushy deal.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Until this year's Olympics, did boueester ever help his team win anything?? He was a loser in junior, and I think he's only been in the playoffs 2 or 3 times in his career. The flames were in a playoff spot when they traded for him and immidiately got worse.

Until this year's Olympics, did bouwmeester ever help his team win anything?? He was a loser in junior, and I think he's only been in the playoffs 2 or 3 times in his career. The flames were in a playoff spot when they traded for him and immidiately got worse.

Imo, he only started because of Hitchcock. Bouwmeester was on FL and they were brutal. From what I've read, he punked his way out of town.

He also looks like a freak, a cross between the Late Johnny Winter and the weirdo kid from "Road Trip."

Bouwmeester has two playoff rounds going back to jrs, never made the playoffs in Medicine Hat. In twelve playoff games he has two assists.

[KoRP]

Boumeester has never been injured in his career, and that's because he doesn't play very hard. He is a great skater, but always it's his skating that makes him effective, not much else. Not even in the same class as PK.

In terms of that Olympic team, anyone who has even watched Boumeester, Hamhuis, Vlasic, or Pietrangelo and Subban play hockey knows that politics kept Subban out of that lineup. He is far and away the better player than any of them are or ever will be. It's not even close....

[Guest Stogey24]

Welp! Here goes. Subban hasn't earned his contract. He might earn later, but right now, IMO he doesn't deserve the term or the dollars based on his performance up to now. I hope I am wrong later. I am a big fan, but would have much rather have seen a 7 million 6 year deal. Stamkos, Crosby, Towes, Chara in his prime. That's who are worth that money. To me those are the elite. The guys who consistently perform and are the best. Everybody else ranks below them. Everybody. If Subban wants to earn his pay, he needs to perform at the top of his game every game. That means he has to be better than every single player on the ice. That's a tall order. Not only that, he needs to drop the garbage from his game. Slewfooting, animated gestures at refs when calls aren't made. Diving. All that junk. It needs to go. Man up. You are collecting a big boy paycheck now earn it. Would he have won the Norris in a full season? Doubt it. Did he earn his gold medal? No. He was there. That's about it. Do I think he can win a Norris in the future? Absolutely. I hope he does. Will he be a leader for team Canada? Yes. But what real elite numbers has this guy put up to get that cash? I believe in paying for what you have earned. So far he has proven that his ceiling is very high, and that undoubtedly he has yet to reach it. But his pay is reserved for the best, and I don't believe he is the best yet.

Without Subban, this team is not a contender. So if it cost the Habs 9 million dollars to have a shot at the cup.... Probably going to pay the money.

[hab29RETIRED]

Without Subban, this team is not a contender. So if it cost the Habs 9 million dollars to have a shot at the cup.... Probably going to pay the money.

WIthout Subban, the habs would be in a dogfight to the end to get into the playoffs in a weak eastern conference.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

WIthout Subban, the tabs would be in a dogfight to the end to get into the playoffs in a weak eastern conference.

IE-95-2008

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Jack Todd can be a dork but when there's smoke there's fire: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Jack+Todd+tale+three+owners+Montreal/10106630/story.html

A source claimed that Geoff Molson stepped in and told Bergevin they should just agree to Subban's demands instead of risking an arbitration ruling.

[DON]

That's too bad if true.

Not smart way to run a team. Harold Ballard also thought he knew more than anyone else and how is that franchise doing, even 30 years later.

Also those who scream Habs would suck without Subban, must think it would happen in a vacuum and that the $9m/year allotted to Subban would not be spent on another top quality player + what trading Subban would bring in return as a RFA.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

That's too bad if true.

Not smart way to run a team. Harold Ballard also thought he knew more than anyone else and how is that franchise doing, even 30 years later.

Also those who scream Habs would suck without Subban, must think it would happen in a vacuum and that the $9m/year allotted to Subban would not be spent on another top quality player + what trading Subban would bring in return as a RFA.

You mean like Denis Savard for Chris Chelios?

The last two big defenceman trades I can think of were Dion Phaneuf and Jay Bouwmeester. Phaneuf was a steal for the Leafs while JayBo got a first round pick and some prospects. If you're saying we'd get a top defenceman back? That trade would then be like the Shattenkirk/Johnson deal or the Carter/Johnson deal. None of those examples are looking great for us.

About the best we could have hoped for was trading him for an OEL or something, but then we'd be in the same situation we were with Subban eventually with a guy who likely has less loyalty to us than what Subban had with the Habs.

Rarely does the team with a top two defenceman trade that guy and win the deal.

[hab29RETIRED]

Yup, I really want to see us using Subban's cap hit on another Briere or pay another 4th liner $2.75m.

I'd much rather have the owner step in than allow his GM make a bonehead mistake like trading Roy.

That's too bad if true.

Not smart way to run a team. Harold Ballard also thought he knew more than anyone else and how is that franchise doing, even 30 years later.

Also those who scream Habs would suck without Subban, must think it would happen in a vacuum and that the $9m/year allotted to Subban would not be spent on another top quality player + what trading Subban would bring in return as a RFA.

I wouldn't doubt that. MB's release after the signing was a bit restrained. I could still see him trading Subban, before his 2 years are up.

Jack Todd can be a dork but when there's smoke there's fire: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Jack+Todd+tale+three+owners+Montreal/10106630/story.html

A source claimed that Geoff Molson stepped in and told Bergevin they should just agree to Subban's demands instead of risking an arbitration ruling.

[dlbalr]

I wouldn't doubt that. MB's release after the signing was a bit restrained. I could still see him trading Subban, before his 2 years are up.

I wouldn't read into the mini paragraph in the press release. There's a standard 2-3 sentences about how they're pleased to keep so-and-so in the family for x years, the Subban one was no exception. It wasn't any more (or less) restrained than any of the other ones we've seen.

[DON]

Bergevin supposedly offered $64m and Subban supposedly demanded more.

If Bergevin had a different plan than simply tossing another $8m onto the offer, it was what he was hired to do wasn't it, or does Molson want GM role also (again a la Ballard)

( I also think McCarron was a influenced by Molson cry for 'no more smurf/hobbits' and overruled Timmins)

[hab29RETIRED]

Bergevin supposedly offered $64m and Subban supposedly demanded more.

If Bergevin had a different plan than simply tossing another $8m onto the offer, it was what he was hired to do wasn't it, or does Molson want GM role also (again a la Ballard)

( I also think McCarron was a influenced by Molson cry for 'no more smurf/hobbits' and overruled Timmins)

I agree that getting owners involved with draft choice decisions - particularly one's not involving generational players that may be hard to sign (i.e. Lindros under the old CBA, where he basically looking to be the highest paid player), is a recipe for disaster. Having the owner involved in decisions regarding signing the face of the franchise (i.e. recent Lebron James return to Cleveland, Crosby re-upping with Pens), is normal.

Owners do not give their GM's a blank check and do hold veto rights. Hell i wish Gillet/Molson, had vetoed the bonehead Gomez, Roy and Chelios deals.

[DON]

Gomez and Chelios deals were fine at the time; was basically Gomez for Higgins and Chelios underachieved in 90 and on his way out irregardless so getting a high scoring forward who was French wasn't seen as a lopsided deal at the time. Hindsight is 100% on these 2 deals and didn't quite pan out so well, risk with any trade.

But Roy deal was a beaut, for sure one of worst.

Bergevin didn't offer Subban blank cheque, maybe just the opposite in part so that Price/Pacioretty don't get nose out of joint with their paltry salaries? or Bergevin is looking at cap next year or farther down the road? When got to juggle bunch of contracts, might not be quite so simple as pay him what his agent wants because he is a superstar!

I don't buy the; 'be scared you may piss him off' mentality, so treat him with kid gloves.

But, done deal and am glad he is signed long term for a relatively sane salary.

[habs rule]

Gomez and Chelios deals were fine at the time; was basically Gomez for Higgins and Chelios underachieved in 90 and on his way out irregardless so getting a high scoring forward who was French wasn't seen as a lopsided deal at the time. Hindsight is 100% on these 2 deals and didn't quite pan out so well, risk with any trade.

But Roy deal was a beaut, for sure one of worst.

Bergevin didn't offer Subban blank cheque, maybe just the opposite in part so that Price/Pacioretty don't get nose out of joint with their paltry salaries? or Bergevin is looking at cap next year or farther down the road? When got to juggle bunch of contracts, might not be quite so simple as pay him what his agent wants because he is a superstar!

I don't buy the; 'be scared you may piss him off' mentality, so treat him with kid gloves.

But, done deal and am glad he is signed long term for a relatively sane salary.

Molson owns the team, the 1/2 a billion or so that he paid gives him the right to oversee where his money is going. He gets to say yeah or nay to spending it. I have not seen too much to be concerned about at this point.

[DON]

Yes he has the $ and agree, not too concerned.

But, don't mean he isn't fair game to take speculative pot shots at.

[hab29RETIRED]

Gomez and Chelios deals were fine at the time; was basically Gomez for Higgins and Chelios underachieved in 90 and on his way out irregardless so getting a high scoring forward who was French wasn't seen as a lopsided deal at the time. Hindsight is 100% on these 2 deals and didn't quite pan out so well, risk with any trade.

But Roy deal was a beaut, for sure one of worst.

Bergevin didn't offer Subban blank cheque, maybe just the opposite in part so that Price/Pacioretty don't get nose out of joint with their paltry salaries? or Bergevin is looking at cap next year or farther down the road? When got to juggle bunch of contracts, might not be quite so simple as pay him what his agent wants because he is a superstar!

I don't buy the; 'be scared you may piss him off' mentality, so treat him with kid gloves.

But, done deal and am glad he is signed long term for a relatively sane salary.

The Gomez and Chelios deal may have been fine to you at the time, not to me.

You don't trade your top dman prospect for an overpaid declining gomez. I almost had a heart attack hearing about that trade and was vocal about it the time. I wouldn't have traded Higgins straight up unless we were getting draft picks for ridding Sather of that horrible contract. The whole league knew Sather wanted to and had to dump Gomez to sign Gaborik. Instead of trying to extract a premium Gainey thought it necessary to "throw in" McDonough. They were pegging McDonough as captain material when he was drafted. He was a big, physical dman - exactly what we needed, once Komisorik flamed out (and eventually burnt out in Toronto). I was VERY VOCAL here about trading McDonough when it happened.

Ditto with Chelios - you don't trade a top 5 Dman in the league that is in his PRIME, for a guy who was clearly past his prime. That would be like us trading Subban now for Lecavalier.

I also don't think its a matter of treating your stars with "kid gloves" - but there is a reason why most successful organizations DO NOT go through with arbitration with their top players.

[habs rule]

The Gomez and Chelios deal may have been fine to you at the time, not to me.

You don't trade your top dman prospect for an overpaid declining gomez. I almost had a heart attack hearing about that trade and was vocal about it the time. I wouldn't have traded Higgins straight up unless we were getting draft picks for ridding Sather of that horrible contract. The whole league knew Sather wanted to and had to dump Gomez to sign Gaborik. Instead of trying to extract a premium Gainey thought it necessary to "throw in" McDonough. They were pegging McDonough as captain material when he was drafted. He was a big, physical dman - exactly what we needed, once Komisorik flamed out (and eventually burnt out in Toronto). I was VERY VOCAL here about trading McDonough when it happened.

Ditto with Chelios - you don't trade a top 5 Dman in the league that is in his PRIME, for a guy who was clearly past his prime. That would be like us trading Subban now for Lecavalier.

I also don't think its a matter of treating your stars with "kid gloves" - but there is a reason why most successful organizations DO NOT go through with arbitration with their top players.

habs 29 I agree totally. I may not have in the past but I do now. the gomez trade was a complete fork up. it was so bad I was hoping that McDonough would turn out to be a pos.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

Since the Patrick Roy trade, the Canadiens have, as an organization, seemed to think that they could eschew the idea of having a real star on the team and still succeed. They've taken the (true) ideal that "no one player is above the team" to an extreme, and we've never really had a bona fide, dominant superstar on the ice.

Now, I like the idea of rolling three effective "number 2" lines at nearly equal ice-time. I really do. But if you're going to do that, you need a star goaltender, and some stars on defense.

I'd have preferred a 64 million dollar contract, too. Who wouldn't? (Except for Subban and Meehan, obviously.) But a deal had to be made. This is the type of player you make the deal with.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Jeff, I don't think the Habs have deliberately avoided having real stars since Roy. Saku Koivu was all set to become a top-5 NHL forward - a genuine superstar - until he ruined his knee. Gainey, in getting Kovalev and (misguidedly) trying to get Lecavalier, presumably sought an elite-level talent. He also gunned hard to get Hossa and Briere when the latter was in his prime. The problem is closer to one of incompetence than intention. Anyway, with Price, Subban and possibly Galchenyuk, we now have our share of stars and potential stars, so why dwell on that!

[DON]

Eschew eh? I think is was more to do with high taxs, language issue, mediocre franchise performance, overly critical media and fans that made many 'superstar' free agents avoid signing with Habs.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Before the Roy trade we got Pierre Turgeon, who at the time was one of the top French Canadian superstars in the league. The team also gave up too much to get Mark Recchi, who was a star in the league. Damphousse was the toast of the league in Edmonton after being the NHL All-Star Player of the Game.

Savard almost got us Ilya Kovalchuk but he wasn't willing to give up Mathieu Garon.

Gainey tried every free agency but nobody wanted to play in Montreal. There was no "Sure thing signing" quite like Jason Arnott and he still went to the Predators over us. Briere took less money and more years in Philadelphia. We had to settle for freakin' Sergei Samsonov.

It's funny because we talk like Montreal has always had a great relationship with our superstars but we haven't. Maurice Richard and Emile Bouchard sat out of pre-seasonwhen demanding a pay raise which Frank Selke refused to give. There's also the fact they didn't want to ever give Richard a more meaningful job after he retired. Doug Harvey was exiled for supporting the player union. Dryden sat out for a full season due to his pay issues. Jacques Lemaire fought with a veteran Lafleur, leading him to retire because Savard refused to trade him. The only Hab player I think that went through his entire career without fighting the team at some point was maybe Jean Beliveau.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Nobody wanted to play in Montreal due to the stench of failure. The 2008 season went a long way toward smashing the franchise's image as a loser IMHO; and we really don't seem to have had any problem in luring UFAs since then.

Turgeon, Damphousse, and Recchi were legit stars, but none were in Subban's class. If he's not a bona-fide superstar then he is damned close.

But yeah, Montreal has indeed had a vexed relationship with its big name talent over the years. Hopefully, that was a product if an earlier era. This is a player-friendly league now, and successful franchises will recognize that.

[DON]

Before the Roy trade we got Pierre Turgeon, who at the time was one of the top French Canadian superstars in the league. The team also gave up too much to get Mark Recchi, who was a star in the league. Damphousse was the toast of the league in Edmonton after being the NHL All-Star Player of the Game.

Savard almost got us Ilya Kovalchuk but he wasn't willing to give up Mathieu Garon.

Gainey tried every free agency but nobody wanted to play in Montreal. There was no "Sure thing signing" quite like Jason Arnott and he still went to the Predators over us. Briere took less money and more years in Philadelphia. We had to settle for freakin' Sergei Samsonov.

It's funny because we talk like Montreal has always had a great relationship with our superstars but we haven't. Maurice Richard and Emile Bouchard sat out of pre-seasonwhen demanding a pay raise which Frank Selke refused to give. There's also the fact they didn't want to ever give Richard a more meaningful job after he retired. Doug Harvey was exiled for supporting the player union. Dryden sat out for a full season due to his pay issues. Jacques Lemaire fought with a veteran Lafleur, leading him to retire because Savard refused to trade him. The only Hab player I think that went through his entire career without fighting the team at some point was maybe Jean Beliveau.

Didnt Beliveau snub the Habs also and so Habs simply bought the whole league he was playing in to get his rights (or was that Richard?)

[habs rule]

Didnt Beliveau snub the Habs also and so Habs simply bought the whole league he was playing in to get his rights (or was that Richard?)

Yes you are correct. Le gros bill did not want to play in Montreal, but they convinced him, and all has happy happy since. however to be fair his father did not want him to turn pro. He was the best amateur player in the country. Frank Selke pulled a fast one to get as a pro by buying the league that he was playing in. They then converted league to semi pro and Beliveau was committed to Montreal.

Slick and dirty dealings in those days. So not really a dispute.