Bostonhabs Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Pax has still more upside in him. Kessel has seen his best days already. Not really a tough call. So you do know that kessel isnt even 30 yet but he is finished? 80 pts last year and will get around the same again. Just awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 You would choose Kessel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Kessel is a consistent PPG player - he's done that for four years running. Kovalev was not that when he played with us; and he was complete disaster for two of four seasons in Montreal, bringing nothing but psychodrama. At least Kessel is reliably productive. I totally get the idea that Kessel is not a 'team concept' guy. Like I said before, IF his teammates are willing to carry him as a 'special case' - a gifted player to whom the normal rules don't apply - then there's no reason you can't win with a guy like that. If, by contrast, his teammates resent the special treatment and take their cue from him, then you should trade him, because you'll never win with that. Ideally, Kessel would be an added ingredient to a fundamentally strong team, putting them over the top with his deadly offence. Toronto's problem is that they're trying to build a team around him. Ahem, the stats show that Kovalev was a .782 pts/game player over his entire career which includes his less than stellar ending in Ottawa and Florida. He was in fact quite consistent until near the end of his 24 year career. Pillsbury Phil does have a slightly higher PPG of .795. Does anyone see him maintaining that for the next five seasons let alone another 16? I do agree that Kessel might be a good complimentary piece on a good team with strong leadership, but he could just as easily be a "locker room cancer". His playoff performance is simply too small to judge. As Habs rule notes he is comparable to Kovalev or Larouche but not to a truly elite talent like Lafleur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Ahem, the stats show that Kovalev was a .782 pts/game player over his entire career which includes his less than stellar ending in Ottawa and Florida. He was in fact quite consistent until near the end of his 24 year career. Pillsbury Phil does have a slightly higher PPG of .795. Does anyone see him maintaining that for the next five seasons let alone another 16? I do agree that Kessel might be a good complimentary piece on a good team with strong leadership, but he could just as easily be a "locker room cancer". His playoff performance is simply too small to judge. As Habs rule notes he is comparable to Kovalev or Larouche but not to a truly elite talent like Lafleur cant argue with that. he has a great shot, like Guy .....but you could say that about hundreds of players from richer to gaston gingras. From clarke to Souray. Caught the third period of the loaf game last night, whetever kessel has in his tool box he did not bring it with him last night. He seems to take what the game gives him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Ahem, the stats show that Kovalev was a .782 pts/game player over his entire career which includes his less than stellar ending in Ottawa and Florida. He was in fact quite consistent until near the end of his 24 year career. Pillsbury Phil does have a slightly higher PPG of .795. Does anyone see him maintaining that for the next five seasons let alone another 16? I do agree that Kessel might be a good complimentary piece on a good team with strong leadership, but he could just as easily be a "locker room cancer". His playoff performance is simply too small to judge. As Habs rule notes he is comparable to Kovalev or Larouche but not to a truly elite talent like Lafleur 66 pts per season over the next five seasons for Kessel ?!? Easily. He's been putting up better numbers than .795 for the last 3 seasons and going on his 4th straight now. In fact, in the next 5 seasons or so, I bet he will constantly upgrade that .795. And then slowly go back to about .800 before his carreer ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 the more i hear about kessel from you guys and the more i see why he is being compared to kovy. both in their prime?...... i would take kovy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just to be precise, when I referenced Kovy, I meant Kovy as a Hab. I have no opinion about Kovy prior to that, because I didn't watch him closely. I like Kessel because I like electrifying, high-skill, game-breaking hockey players, and find something sour about complaining about their lack of back-checking, etc.; but like most of you, I think Patches brings more overall value. Funny that Pacioretty still seems under-rated among ordinary hockey-fans and commentators...he's not regarded as a star, and yet he is one of the very best goal-scorers in the NHL and the absolute key to the Montreal Canadiens' offence (arguably one of the most valuable forwards to his team in the entire league). I wonder how much of that has to do with his cut-rate salary? Is that what it takes to be recognized as a star, a big payday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just to be precise, when I referenced Kovy, I meant Kovy as a Hab. I have no opinion about Kovy prior to that, because I didn't watch him closely. I like Kessel because I like electrifying, high-skill, game-breaking hockey players, and find something sour about complaining about their lack of back-checking, etc.; but like most of you, I think Patches brings more overall value. Funny that Pacioretty still seems under-rated among ordinary hockey-fans and commentators...he's not regarded as a star, and yet he is one of the very best goal-scorers in the NHL and the absolute key to the Montreal Canadiens' offence (arguably one of the most valuable forwards to his team in the entire league). I wonder how much of that has to do with his cut-rate salary? Is that what it takes to be recognized as a star, a big payday? Yea the problem with Kessel and players like him, when they are not scoring they dont bring much else. That only becomes a real problem for the team when they hit extended scoring slump, like kessel is in now. Highlites of last night as Canes cycle puck down low, Phil floating around in his own end, staal comes to front of leaf net, kessel leaves front of net to go nowhere. Puck comes to Staal , scores 1-0 canes. Thats Phil, goes minus three on the night. So no back checking can be over looked ....so long as your scoring. My brothers are Bruin fans, hear them many times commenting on how they did not like the Seguin deal to dallas. As many Bruin fans curse that deal and wish they still had Seguin. Never hear them mention they regret having moved Kessel. There is just something about Phil that turns people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bostonhabs Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 You would choose Kessel? Money a side yes. If he played on this team his numbers would be better then what he has now. Our d is much better and would get the puck to him more. Is kessel a great build your team around guy? Hell no. he is a kane. Game on the line you want him. Patches isnt a leader either To me they are the same phil is a better scorer patches hits more both no heart or guts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Money a side yes. If he played on this team his numbers would be better then what he has now. Our d is much better and would get the puck to him more. Is kessel a great build your team around guy? Hell no. he is a kane. Game on the line you want him. Patches isnt a leader either To me they are the same phil is a better scorer patches hits more both no heart or guts. Kane is better. Unbelievable moves. Vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Money a side yes. If he played on this team his numbers would be better then what he has now. Our d is much better and would get the puck to him more. Is kessel a great build your team around guy? Hell no. he is a kane. Game on the line you want him. Patches isnt a leader either To me they are the same phil is a better scorer patches hits more both no heart or guts. I disagree Kessel would have better numbers if he was a Hab. We have played a defense first system for years now, compared to the run and gun style of the Laffs (edit: the former run and gun style). Pacioretty over the last few years is scoring goals at a better pace than Kessel actually. And to say that Patches has no heart or guts is absurd. The guy gets his neck broke, has an appendectomy among numerous other injuries, and barely misses any time. A leader doesn't have to go out there and fight or turn up the radio in the dressing room to be considered one. The guy is emerging as the front runner as Captain for your Montreal Canadiens, so you better believe he is a leader. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bostonhabs Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I disagree Kessel would have better numbers if he was a Hab. We have played a defense first system for years now, compared to the run and gun style of the Laffs (edit: the former run and gun style). Pacioretty over the last few years is scoring goals at a better pace than Kessel actually. And to say that Patches has no heart or guts is absurd. The guy gets his neck broke, has an appendectomy among numerous other injuries, and barely misses any time. A leader doesn't have to go out there and fight or turn up the radio in the dressing room to be considered one. The guy is emerging as the front runner as Captain for your Montreal Canadiens, so you better believe he is a leader. We have a lot better puck moving d men and our c men are much better then what he plays with. Patches lets little guys fight his battles when does he ever get into scums? A leader shows up and gets his hands dirty. So i guess princess dion is a great leader as well then eh? P.K or T.P will be the next captain. I don't hate him at all so glad we have him but to call him a power forward or a leader is funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 How often did Gretzky, Lemieux, Lafleur, or Bossy fight or get involved in scrums?? They led by showing up every game, playing hard and working hard in practice, despite being the most skilled players on their team and of their eras. Lafleur was reportedly the first guy on the ice. He showed up every night. If he didn't live in the disco 70's when training camp was to get in shape, he probably would have had a much longer string of 50goal plus and 100 point seasons. Gretzky and Lemieux were captains on their team. The other were leaders counted on to produce, just like Maxpac. None of them fought, or retaliated to hits on teammates. Unlike Kessel, Maxpac does work hard every game. He trains hard and it shows. Kessel looks like he was trained by the pillsbury doughboy. Have you seen the two in an interview?? Maxpac sounds and carries himself like a leader. Kessel sounds like an immature 7 year old and looks like the fat curly haired guy in revenge of the nerds. Maxpac hold himself accountable, Kessel snorts and squeaks in his adolescent, pre-puberty voice and keeps repeating "we're trying, you think we're not trying??" Or "so you are saying it's my fault, is that what you are saying??" One is overpaid has a ridiculous cap hit and is making I think $10m in actual salary this year, the other is getting at least $2m MINIMUM less than he deserves. Even if you take salary out of the equation, I'd take Maxpac. He is a leader and would make a damn good captain. The other is a waste of talent who will put up decent numbers but will never be a winner, but will always be a great whiner. We have a lot better puck moving d men and our c men are much better then what he plays with. Patches lets little guys fight his battles when does he ever get into scums? A leader shows up and gets his hands dirty. So i guess princess dion is a great leader as well then eh? P.K or T.P will be the next captain. I don't hate him at all so glad we have him but to call him a power forward or a leader is funny 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bostonhabs Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 How often did Gretzky, Lemieux, Lafleur, or Bossy fight or get involved in scrums?? They led by showing up every game, playing hard and working hard in practice, despite being the most skilled players on their team and of their eras. Lafleur was reportedly the first guy on the ice. He showed up every night. If he didn't live in the disco 70's when training camp was to get in shape, he probably would have had a much longer string of 50goal plus and 100 point seasons. Gretzky and Lemieux were captains on their team. The other were leaders counted on to produce, just like Maxpac. None of them fought, or retaliated to hits on teammates. Unlike Kessel, Maxpac does work hard every game. He trains hard and it shows. Kessel looks like he was trained by the pillsbury doughboy. Have you seen the two in an interview?? Maxpac sounds and carries himself like a leader. Kessel sounds like an immature 7 year old and looks like the fat curly haired guy in revenge of the nerds. Maxpac hold himself accountable, Kessel snorts and squeaks in his adolescent, pre-puberty voice and keeps repeating "we're trying, you think we're not trying??" Or "so you are saying it's my fault, is that what you are saying??" One is overpaid has a ridiculous cap hit and is making I think $10m in actual salary this year, the other is getting at least $2m MINIMUM less than he deserves. Even if you take salary out of the equation, I'd take Maxpac. He is a leader and would make a damn good captain. The other is a waste of talent who will put up decent numbers but will never be a winner, but will always be a great whiner. Homer much? So kessel isn't a good hockey player based on his voice? And you can't blame a player on getting paid. Would you turn down a raise? I didnt once say trade one for one. And the players you mentioned are superstars so in your eyes patches is? See i can spin this crazy too. Don asked a question i answered. Neither is captain and neither should be. Patches was labeled a power forward but is more like a scorer if the game was on the line and we had one shot kessel would be shooting for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I got this 29... Alrighty then....Saying Kessel is in the same class as Pacioretty is, well, just f'n ridiculous. When Montreal needs a goal, Patch usually gets one... is a great two way player, and indeed a leader for his team, that's all there is to it. Kessel is an idiot, a one dimensional idiot.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I got this 29... Alrighty then....Saying Kessel is in the same class as Pacioretty is, well, just f'n ridiculous. When Montreal needs a goal, Patch usually gets one... is a great two way player, and indeed a leader for his team, that's all there is to it. Kessel is an idiot, a one dimensional idiot.... Well dont hold back Korp, tell us what you really think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Homer much? So kessel isn't a good hockey player based on his voice? And you can't blame a player on getting paid. Would you turn down a raise? I didnt once say trade one for one. And the players you mentioned are superstars so in your eyes patches is? See i can spin this crazy too. Don asked a question i answered. Neither is captain and neither should be. Patches was labeled a power forward but is more like a scorer if the game was on the line and we had one shot kessel would be shooting for me. I'm not comparing MaxPac to Kessel. I brought up Lemeiux, Gretzky, Lafleur and Bossy in response to your ridiculous assertion that you have to fight, get involved in scrums to be a leader. Who cares what MaxPac was labeled as. Alexander Daigle was labeled as a superstar. Martin Brodeur was supposed to be a consolation prize and Trevor Kidd was supposed to be the superstar goaltender in their draft year. Who ended up the better goalie. Maxpac is a scorer and a clutch scorer at that. He is a leader. He is accountable to his teammates and the media. Kessel NEVER takes accountability. The guy is a bum. Maxpac talks about holding the team accountable and understands the importance of the fans. Kessel leads his team off the ice breaking the tradition of saluting the fans, because, boo hoo, the fans had booed his hopeless team for their pathetic efforts. If i'm building a team, I want guys like MaxPac. not bums like Kessel. Would I take Kessel if he was making $4M as a complementary piece? Sure. Would I want him to be the highest paid player on my team or lock a fruit cake like him up long term? No bloody way! Would I pay Maxpac what Kesse is getting? Without hesitation. MaxPac, SUbban, or Gallagher are all capable of being future captains of this team. Phil Kessel is only capable of getting himself traded off whatever team he is on every 3-4 years. I got this 29... Alrighty then....Saying Kessel is in the same class as Pacioretty is, well, just f'n ridiculous. When Montreal needs a goal, Patch usually gets one... is a great two way player, and indeed a leader for his team, that's all there is to it. Kessel is an idiot, a one dimensional idiot.... 100% agree. Kessel is an idiot. I'd also add a bum, a moron and would be the dumbest if they were to make a a follow-up to dumb and dumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 OK So kessell has a lot of fans then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Really, how did Kessel even deserve to be mentioned here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Really, how did Kessel even deserve to be mentioned here? Yes, that's the best question on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't even know why this is a thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This is more of an off-season type of thread, no? How about we keep the bs topics for when there's nothing to talk about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This is more of an off-season type of thread, no? How about we keep the bs topics for when there's nothing to talk about? It's the All-Star break now. There is nothing to talk about for the next week aside from a couple of Hamilton games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sens fan friend of mine predicts Kessel is another Heatley in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sens fan friend of mine predicts Kessel is another Heatley in the making. Now that I could really see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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