Sir_Boagalott Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 On 5/11/2021 at 8:25 PM, Neech said: Both KK and Romanov could have benefitted with at least a whole season under Bouchard. Instead they were rushed to the big club for PR reasons. I'm not sure if some of the prospect decisions are made for PR reasons. I tend to believe that some of the decisions are based on the cut of a players jib. ex: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (I know, different episodes but that came to mind anyway...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 On 5/12/2021 at 5:16 AM, johnnyhasbeen said: And you possess a crystal ball to see the future? Please tell us, who should we draft this year? You seem to think these are obvious to everyone but MB. Tell us please. Then we will see in a few seasons just how great you would be. The bunch of you are complaining that MB couldn't see Tkachuk would be ahead of KK in development 3 years ahead? SMH and wondering why I bother. On 5/11/2021 at 9:35 PM, Chris said: Tkachuk is much better period, he is already way better than KK, how is that even a debate? A crystal ball isn't required when a draftee in a high draft position happens to be the son of a HOF player and their older brother was drafted really high the year before and went directly into the NHL and did really well. In that scenario, it really makes little sense to pass on that player because they are basically guaranteed to work out. I'm absolutely convinced that no matter what happens with KK, i.e. even if he becomes a 65-70pts player, that within 5 years of the post MB era, we will all unanimously agree that drafting kk over Tkachuk was the worst decision MB ever made. The Habs had Suzuki, so they didnt need 2 more young C prospects. Drafting kk created a log jam at C, especially when they have Evans and Poehling. Tkachuk would have been a better choice. i.e. they didn't have a winger prospect capable of going right into the NHL and Evans and/or Poehling could have a spot on the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, dlbalr said: (I know, different episodes but that came to mind anyway...) LOL, that pic reminds me of another good line that I believe is from that same ep. "it's my 1st day", but more like "it's my 1st year" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: A crystal ball isn't required when a draftee in a high draft position happens to be the son of a HOF player and their older brother was drafted really high the year before and went directly into the NHL and did really well. In that scenario, it really makes little sense to pass on that player because they are basically guaranteed to work out. I'm absolutely convinced that no matter what happens with KK, i.e. even if he becomes a 65-70pts player, that within 5 years of the post MB era, we will all unanimously agree that drafting kk over Tkachuk was the worst decision MB ever made. The Habs had Suzuki, so they didnt need 2 more young C prospects. Drafting kk created a log jam at C, especially when they have Evans and Poehling. Tkachuk would have been a better choice. i.e. they didn't have a winger prospect capable of going right into the NHL and Evans and/or Poehling could have a spot on the Habs. Thats not true that it was guaranteed to work out. Ever heard of Marian Hossa, Valeri Bure, Jared Staal, Matthew Strome, Ryan Sittler, Brett Lindros, Steve Kariya, etc... etc... There are numerous younger brothers and sons of NHL superstars who never make the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Commandant said: Thats not true that it was guaranteed to work out. Ever heard of Marian Hossa, Valeri Bure, Jared Staal, Matthew Strome, Ryan Sittler, Brett Lindros, Steve Kariya, etc... etc... There are numerous younger brothers and sons of NHL superstars who never make the league. Well, I certainly disagree. Ironically, the Habs currently have a perfect example of such. i.e. Eric Staal. Jordan went top 5 too, and he didnt work out? He sure did, and the Staals weren't sons of a HOF player. However, the other 2 brothers were not Top 5 picks - and they didnt work as well as the 2 that were top 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 22 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: The Habs had Suzuki, so they didnt need 2 more young C prospects. Drafting kk created a log jam at C, especially when they have Evans and Poehling. Tkachuk would have been a better choice. i.e. they didn't have a winger prospect capable of going right into the NHL and Evans and/or Poehling could have a spot on the Habs. They didn't have Suzuki at the time, actually. Kotkaniemi was drafted in June that year while Suzuki came over in the Pacioretty trade in September three months later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, dlbalr said: They didn't have Suzuki at the time, actually. Kotkaniemi was drafted in June that year while Suzuki came over in the Pacioretty trade in September three months later. Hmm, my bad, you're right. It was getting both of them that created an issue. MB probably should have traded Patches to a different team and/or targeted a winger or dman prospect vs yet another C. A big part of the current issue with the Habs is that its hard to pin point what the exact problem is and be able to state in one sentence. The Habs definitely have an issue with Asset Management and that includes how they draft and develop players. It also includes how they often pickup 4th line guys off of other teams, which keeps prospects in the minors longer than they should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: Well, I certainly disagree. Ironically, the Habs currently have a perfect example of such. i.e. Eric Staal. Jordan went top 5 too, and he didnt work out? He sure did, and the Staals weren't sons of a HOF player. However, the other 2 brothers were not Top 5 picks - and they didnt work as well as the 2 that were top 5. Eric and Jordan were drafted 2nd overall, Marc was 9th. And clearly you never heard of their youngest brother, Jared Staal. And you ignored a number of other prospects.... Ryan Sittler was a top 10 pick and the son of a HOFer. There are others too. Just having family doesn't guarantee you being a good hockey player. I mean look at all of Gretzky's kids and his brothers, none of them were any good. Lemieux's brother and his kids. These are the best players ever. Genetics help, they are far from a guarantee. KK also has good genetics as his father was a pro player and coach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Commandant said: And clearly you never heard of their youngest brother, Jared Staal No, I am fully aware of Jared but you're being ridiculous because I've clearly stated i'm referring to*top 5 picks* in the *1st round*. How does a player that was drafted 19th in the 2nd round have to do with a discussion about 2 brothers that were drafted top 5 in 1st rnd? You done the same with Brett Lindros, and every other example you've given. Brett was close tho because he was at least top 10 1st rnd. However, he didnt work out because his brain was repeatedly turned into mush from all the concussions he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said: A crystal ball isn't required when a draftee in a high draft position happens to be the son of a HOF player and their older brother was drafted really high the year before and went directly into the NHL and did really well. In that scenario, it really makes little sense to pass on that player because they are basically guaranteed to work out. I'm absolutely convinced that no matter what happens with KK, i.e. even if he becomes a 65-70pts player, that within 5 years of the post MB era, we will all unanimously agree that drafting kk over Tkachuk was the worst decision MB ever made. The Habs had Suzuki, so they didnt need 2 more young C prospects. Drafting kk created a log jam at C, especially when they have Evans and Poehling. Tkachuk would have been a better choice. i.e. they didn't have a winger prospect capable of going right into the NHL and Evans and/or Poehling could have a spot on the Habs. We were anything but stacked at the center position when we drafted KK. You use Suzuki, Evans and Poehling the reason not to draft him. Did we have any of these in our roster even at the time????? Again, with the crystal ball. Poehling was anything but a top pick and surely wasn't and isn't going to be a number 1 center. You saw Evans becoming an NHL center? That is an amazing skill. Again, go on the record and tell us who exactly we need to draft this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 They have flopped on drafting the [ast 10-15 years, they have had some good pick ups in the 2nd round and later. Unless KK really turns it around, they have wasted 2 #3 picks. Like completely missed. I would argue KK is worse now than his first year and shows no signs of improving Tkachuk was the pick, a little riskier would have been Hughes, i would have even picked Zadina i think his name was over KK. No one takes KK at #3 overall with his numbers, well except the habs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Price, flop, Sergachev, Flop, Tinordi Flop. KK flop, Caufield flop, McDonagh Flop, Beaulieau Flop, Galchenyuk Flop. Hmm, Maybe you are right...... (shakes his head and leaves the room). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 The current group did not draft Price, Caufield looks like a fine pick, Sergachev and Mcdonough were traded for flops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Your comment was not on asset management but drafting flops. I say you are wrong. You said last 15 years which includes Price regardless of management team. Please debate with sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 The Habs have been accused of this for a long time. Is this culture on GM or Coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: The Habs have been accused of this for a long time. Is this culture on GM or Coach? Culture dictated by media and fanbase who are far to over critical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: The Habs have been accused of this for a long time. Is this culture on GM or Coach? I think the issue is on expectations. The habs wanted to make the playoffs, but they had holes on the D and pushed a kid in before he was ready. They find themselves battling for a playoff position and can’t afford to live with the mistakes of a young player - but don’t have as much a problem when a veteran makes them🙄 ottawa is not a playoff team. They’re playing to prepare for the future and have holes. They can afford to live with his mistakes and hope he learns from his mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 14 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: The Habs have been accused of this for a long time. Is this culture on GM or Coach? The way they have stuck by Kotkaniemi this year, playing him all games despite not performing well. The way th et have stuck by Romanov, despite some games where he made costly mistakes The way they have stuck with Lehkonen and others... I do not think it is a cultural thing with the team it was a hockey decision on Mete and an indication of how bad the Senators D is. I like Mete, wish him a long NHL career, but I won’t over dramatize his comments 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Agreed 100% with the Potato, Mete just isn't good enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: The way they have stuck by Kotkaniemi this year, playing him all games despite not performing well. The way th et have stuck by Romanov, despite some games where he made costly mistakes The way they have stuck with Lehkonen and others... I do not think it is a cultural thing with the team it was a hockey decision on Mete and an indication of how bad the Senators D is. I like Mete, wish him a long NHL career, but I won’t over dramatize his comments It's not that the sens d was bad, they had ufa's on their d that they traded at the deadline to get some picks because they weren't going to resign them. So they needed to fill those spots up which is why they claimed Mete. Everyone knew he was going to be claimed because their was actually a few teams that needed the D depth after the trade deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: The way they have stuck by Kotkaniemi this year, playing him all games despite not performing well. The way th et have stuck by Romanov, despite some games where he made costly mistakes The way they have stuck with Lehkonen and others... I do not think it is a cultural thing with the team it was a hockey decision on Mete and an indication of how bad the Senators D is. I like Mete, wish him a long NHL career, but I won’t over dramatize his comments KK is an interesting example. If he performed like this but was a 5th rounder like Mete, would we have stuck with him or sent him down? And if Romanov wasn't our top D prospect who we practically promised a lineup spot to before camp, would we have stuck with him to the extent we did? I think there was more than just a hockey decision for both of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: It's not that the sens d was bad, they had ufa's on their d that they traded at the deadline to get some picks because they weren't going to resign them. So they needed to fill those spots up which is why they claimed Mete. Everyone knew he was going to be claimed because their was actually a few teams that needed the D depth after the trade deadline. Ok, so what is your point here. That the Habs didn't try to trade Mete before putting him on waivers. I think its pretty obvious that this isn't true, and there were just no offers for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Commandant said: Ok, so what is your point here. That the Habs didn't try to trade Mete before putting him on waivers. I think its pretty obvious that this isn't true, and there were just no offers for him. No all I am saying is that the sens picking up mete wasn't because their D was bad like Alf was saying. He was claimed to add depth after the trades at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: No all I am saying is that the sens picking up mete wasn't because their D was bad like Alf was saying. He was claimed to add depth after the trades at the deadline. Hey, I can say this: "Potaeto, Potahto" 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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