Lovett's Magnatones

Fire Bergevin

607 posts in this topic

This never would have happened if Bergevin gave him a two year deal instead of one. It was Radulov who wanted the two years. 

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21 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

This never would have happened if Bergevin gave him a two year deal instead of one. It was Radulov who wanted the two years. 

There's a lot of what ifs with MB

-what if he didn't hire MT

-what if he hired Robinson as an assistant 

-what if he signed jagr to mentor galchenyuk, instead of signing a washed up Briere, or wasted my money on prust 

-what if he didn't sign Douglas friggin Murray instead of giving time to young dmen 

-what if he didn't go the bridge route with Subban

-what if he didn't take Subban to arbitration

-what if he made a priority to develop galchenyuk as a centre instead of having him play wing for the most of 3 years and than expect him to magically master being a #1 centre

-what if he got a real goalie instead of Ben friggin scrivens when Price went down in 2015-16

-what if he fired MT and hired Boucher instead of trading subban

-what if he traded pleks instead of extending him in 2015-16

-what if he hired a competent coach for the AHL team instead of his childhood chum

-what if he actually did try and build and develop though the draft like he said he would when he was hired

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13 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

This never would have happened if Bergevin gave him a two year deal instead of one. It was Radulov who wanted the two years. 

No he didn't. They were just saying on tsn 690 Radulov wanted the one year deal 

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Apparently MB offered Radulov the same contract after Dallas did but it was too late, he had already agreed.

 

which means Barginbin bet, and lost. I understand trying to get a good contract, but not at the cost of losing your 1st line RW altogether.

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1 minute ago, Stogey24 said:

No he didn't. They were just saying on tsn 690 Radulov wanted the one year deal 

 

This revisionist history is getting stupid.

 

From last year:

 

Quote

Radulov should also be motivated by his show-me contract: one year for $5.75-million (U.S.) – a bargain price given Bergevin vied with the Detroit Red Wings, among others, for his signature.

 

Term was key, Bergevin said; he wanted to avoid “boxing out” younger prospects.

 

From PK Subban missing practices that nobody knew about it until after he was traded, to John Lu reporting a four year offer on the table for Radulov that nobody rejected *until* he signed a five year deal in Dallas and Montreal supposedly also had a five year deal since July 1st sitting there, it feels like any time Montreal makes a questionable decision, you'll see the reporters suddenly reporting stories to refute it. Almost like their source is Canadiens PR.

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It was someone close to Radulov that was saying he asked for a 1 year contract, so he could cash in else where. 

 

I have no idea. I don't even care. All I know is that in the last two years, we've lost two of the most entertaining players to watch.... is that not the reason we watch the Habs, to be entertained? Like fack man. I'm getting sick of cheering for a franchise that would rather protect its brand than compete for a Stanley cup. 

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We are way worse off than last year as it stands. Everything that MB inherited he has not improved this team at all and in fact we are absolutely worse than we have been in a long time. Our prospect pool is completely empty.

 

Maybe there is a miracle coming but I don't think so

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This team has been bad for a long time. 

 

Price saves there bacon and makes them look better then they are. 

 

As Price goes, the habs go period. 

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35 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

It was someone close to Radulov that was saying he asked for a 1 year contract, so he could cash in else where. 

 

I have no idea. I don't even care. All I know is that in the last two years, we've lost two of the most entertaining players to watch.... is that not the reason we watch the Habs, to be entertained? Like fack man. I'm getting sick of cheering for a franchise that would rather protect its brand than compete for a Stanley cup. 

 

Entertainment?

 

 

 

This man is going to electrify the Bell center just as often if not more than anyone in the past 10 years, make no mistake about it.

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7 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

Entertainment?

 

 

 

This man is going to electrify the Bell center just as often if not more than anyone in the past 10 years, make no mistake about it.

 

I like the Drouin trade, in itself, agree that he has the potential to be a major core piece for years to come, and that he will likely add excitement and panache.

 

What's not clear is that the addition of Drouin and Alzner makes the team better than it was when it had Radulov and Markov. I doubt it big-time. It's also not clear that we are better organizationally because of the trade. We lose our best prospect in order to avoid going down the crapper from losing Radulov. 'Running to stand still' for sure. Or, as I've been saying, Whack-A-Mole.

 

If we can re-sign Markov, then at least Ol' Whack-A-Mole can claim to have improved the team in the short term by upgrading on Emelin, albeit at the cost of losing the team's only elite prospect. Failing that, I don't see it (barring some lucky leaps forward by existing players).

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The addition of Drouin only makes sense if they kept Radulov. 

I loved the Drouin trade because I figured the team would be much better offensively next year, but that is not the case now. 

 

MB essentially is bringing back a very similar team and lost the best prospect we had. 

Unless something else happens - trade Pleks and offer sheet Leon - then it's still a likely early playoff exit. 

 

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Just now, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I like the Drouin trade, in itself, agree that he has the potential to be a major core piece for years to come, and that he will likely add excitement and panache.

 

What's not clear is that the addition of Drouin and Alzner makes the team better than it was when it had Radulov and Markov. I doubt it big-time. It's also not clear that we are better organizationally because of the trade. We lose our best prospect in order to avoid going down the crapper from losing Radulov. 'Running to stand still' for sure. Or, as I've been saying, Whack-A-Mole.

 

 From an age perspective and longevity one, yes. However the true hole here is Markov, Drouin is a replacement now to Radulov. Alzner replaces Emelin, what Markov brings, what no one brought in so far brings. 

 

Radulov brings Production and Skill, Drouin will do the same but at Higher numbers for a much longer time of this I am sure, he will be an actual challenge to Pacioretty for team lead in Points next season. Would have been nice if Drouin was in the end an ADDITION to Radulov instead of a replacment, but it is what it is now. If we could win a division off the backs of Price and an offense with Radulov's 50 something points then we can surely do it with Drouin's 60 something points, which is what I think he will start hitting as early as next season.

 

the real issue is who will play with Weber if it is not Markov, that is where the potential for a Downgrade lies. Drouin for Radulov while not a notable upgrade, still remains at the very least an at par move with the potential to be more productive. If Markov returns then it changes a lot, because now our top 6 is younger while not being any worse, our defense is better with Markov and Alzner in it instead of Markov and Emelin, and our Goaltending will be at an Elite level for the foreseeable future.

 

All that remains is to see what other moves take place between now and training camp to see if we take a step forward, and if so how big or how little of a step.

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1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

This revisionist history is getting stupid.

 

From last year:

 

 

From PK Subban missing practices that nobody knew about it until after he was traded, to John Lu reporting a four year offer on the table for Radulov that nobody rejected *until* he signed a five year deal in Dallas and Montreal supposedly also had a five year deal since July 1st sitting there, it feels like any time Montreal makes a questionable decision, you'll see the reporters suddenly reporting stories to refute it. Almost like their source is Canadiens PR.

I guess expect the unexpected meant that the donkeys that bought into his bs in the past would still be suckers enough to believe his spin yet again

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2 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

 From an age perspective and longevity one, yes. However the true hole here is Markov, Drouin is a replacement now to Radulov. Alzner replaces Emelin, what Markov brings, what no one brought in so far brings. 

 

Radulov brings Production and Skill, Drouin will do the same but at Higher numbers for a much longer time of this I am sure, he will be an actual challenge to Pacioretty for team lead in Points next season. Would have been nice if Drouin was in the end an ADDITION to Radulov instead of a replacment, but it is what it is now. If we could win a division off the backs of Price and an offense with Radulov's 50 something points then we can surely do it with Drouin's 60 something points, which is what I think he will start hitting as early as next season.

 

the real issue is who will play with Weber if it is not Markov, that is where the potential for a Downgrade lies. Drouin for Radulov while not a notable upgrade, still remains at the very least an at par move with the potential to be more productive. If Markov returns then it changes a lot, because now our top 6 is younger while not being any worse, our defense is better with Markov and Alzner in it instead of Markov and Emelin, and our Goaltending will be at an Elite level for the foreseeable future.

 

All that remains is to see what other moves take place between now and training camp to see if we take a step forward, and if so how big or how little of a step.

We've already taken a step back from where we would have been, don't see how you see us taking a step back.

 

Not counting the expansion draft fallout moves (ie Beaulieu,emelin, schlemko), or the UFA signings that probably don't effect the big club (holland, et el).

 

out:

-radulov 

-markov

-Sergechev (would probably been a great mid-season and playoff boon)

 

in:

-Drouin 

-hemsky

-alzner

 

Dont see how we take a step forward with these moves.

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Actually my point about not taking a step back was if it looked like this

 

Out: Radulov, Sergachev

 

In: Drouin, Markov, Hemsky, Alzner

 

I mentioned in my post not having Markov back would mean we downgraded, but if we did, then it looks like the above, and that is not a downgraded roster from last season, but at least on par, with a possibility of a slight upgrade if Drouin out produces Radulov's last season. If we make any other additions, as I mentioned in my previous post, then it would be taking a step forward, and depending on the addition, would determine if it was a big or small step forward.

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10 minutes ago, Link67 said:

Actually my point about not taking a step back was if it looked like this

 

Out: Radulov, Sergachev

 

In: Drouin, Markov, Hemsky, Alzner

 

I mentioned in my post not having Markov back would mean we downgraded, but if we did, then it looks like the above, and that is not a downgraded roster from last season, but at least on par, with a possibility of a slight upgrade if Drouin out produces Radulov's last season. If we make any other additions, as I mentioned in my previous post, then it would be taking a step forward, and depending on the addition, would determine if it was a big or small step forward.

 

I agree above that IF we re-add Markov, the roster is somewhat improved, in that Alzner is an upgrade on Emelin. Right now the team is worse overall than the bunch that crapped out against the Rags, due to lost offence from the back end.

 

You don't seem to have a response to the observation that the more-or-less lateral move at FW (Drouin for Radulov) was "accomplished" by the removal of the team's best prospect: classic Whack-A-Mole.

 

If we don't re-up Markov, then whatever assets MB ships away in order to fill the void will also need to be worked into the assessment, but one criticism at a time.

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5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I agree above that IF we re-add Markov, the roster is somewhat improved, in that Alzner is an upgrade on Emelin. Right now the team is worse overall than the bunch that crapped out against the Rags, due to lost offence from the back end.

 

You don't seem to have a response to the observation that the more-or-less lateral move at FW (Drouin for Radulov) was "accomplished" by the removal of the team's best prospect: classic Whack-A-Mole.

 

If we don't re-up Markov, then whatever assets MB ships away in order to fill the void will also need to be worked into the assessment, but one criticism at a time.

I also think that in addition to just making a lateral move on offence (which will still only happen if galchenyuk is signed and retained), we are discounting the potential impact Sergechev could have had.  While Sergechev probably would not have had an immediate impact at the start of his he season, he may have been a great mid-season/playoff addition.  For those old enough to remember the impact Chelios had as a late season/playoff addition, it's hard not to imagine the impact that Sergechev could also have had.

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32 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

For those old enough to remember the impact Chelios had as a late season/playoff addition, it's hard not to imagine the impact that Sergechev could also have had.

We don't have to go that far back.

 

"I started my career in the playoffs."

- PK Subban

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37 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I also think that in addition to just making a lateral move on offence (which will still only happen if galchenyuk is signed and retained), we are discounting the potential impact Sergechev could have had.  While Sergechev probably would not have had an immediate impact at the start of his he season, he may have been a great mid-season/playoff addition.  For those old enough to remember the impact Chelios had as a late season/playoff addition, it's hard not to imagine the impact that Sergechev could also have had.

 

Just for the record, there wouldn't have been a situation where Sergachev could have been sent back to junior and then recalled midseason - that's not permitted in the CBA.  It's a different situation than Subban who was recalled from the AHL for the playoffs.

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7 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Just for the record, there wouldn't have been a situation where Sergachev could have been sent back to junior and then recalled midseason - that's not permitted in the CBA.  It's a different situation than Subban who was recalled from the AHL for the playoffs.

I didn't mean a mid season recall (I know both chelios and Subban were).  I think Sergechev would have been eased into the lineup and had an impact later in the year and playoffs where he could have played a more prominent role.

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16 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

We don't have to go that far back.

 

"I started my career in the playoffs."

- PK Subban

I didn't want  I mention Subban, since unlike Chelios, while Subban played well, he was brought in late in the playoffs and the series against Philly we were pretty much toast anyway (the only one who didn't seem to realize it was Subban)

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6 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I didn't mean a mid season recall (I know both chelios and Subban were).  I think Sergechev would have been eased into the lineup and had an impact later in the year and playoffs where he could have played a more prominent role.

 

I wasn't sure which one you meant so I thought I'd clarify to be safe.  Personally, I don't think Sergachev would have lasted long before going back to junior (although if Markov doesn't return, that probably would have changed things).

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2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

This revisionist history is getting stupid.

 

From last year:

 

 

From PK Subban missing practices that nobody knew about it until after he was traded, to John Lu reporting a four year offer on the table for Radulov that nobody rejected *until* he signed a five year deal in Dallas and Montreal supposedly also had a five year deal since July 1st sitting there, it feels like any time Montreal makes a questionable decision, you'll see the reporters suddenly reporting stories to refute it. Almost like their source is Canadiens PR.

 

Boston sports, especially the Bruins, are famous for that. Every athlete on their way out that signs elsewhere, or a fan favorite that gets traded gets smeared, big time. I remember after the Red Sox fired Terry Francona, there were bogus stories about prescription drug abuse and screwing a NESN info-babe. As things get ugly, hopefully the Habs don't go in that direction.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I agree above that IF we re-add Markov, the roster is somewhat improved, in that Alzner is an upgrade on Emelin. Right now the team is worse overall than the bunch that crapped out against the Rags, due to lost offence from the back end.

 

You don't seem to have a response to the observation that the more-or-less lateral move at FW (Drouin for Radulov) was "accomplished" by the removal of the team's best prospect: classic Whack-A-Mole.

 

If we don't re-up Markov, then whatever assets MB ships away in order to fill the void will also need to be worked into the assessment, but one criticism at a time.

 

I have been saying the same thing on that observation from the start, even put up a what if we didn't line up in a different thread that is likely an even further downgrade than the one we have now.

 

If we re-sign Markov, and don't have Drouin its..

 

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher                                        Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Drouin

Lehkonen - Danault - Hemsky                                                  Lehkonen - Danault - Gallagher

Byron - Plekanec - Shaw                                                          Byron - Plekanec - Hemsky

Hudon - McCaron - Martinsen/Mitchell              VS.                  Hudon - McCaron - Shaw

 

Markov - Weber                                                                                Markov - Weber

Alzner - Petry                                                                                      Alzner - Petry

Sergachev - Benn                                                                             Schlemko - Benn                                                     

 

 

Drouin adds more impact from the top line for the next couple years than Sergachev would from the bottom pair, therefore from that impact alone, Drouin helps make us better next year than Sergachev would have. 

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You're putting too many peanuts into one basket. What happens when Drouin gets injured? 

 

I understand that sometimes timing is everything but Bergevin should have been focused on locking up Radulov prior to trading for Drouin.

 

It seems as though he was fine with either outcome. We can argue all we want but having Radulov on the team would have clearly given us a better shot at the ultimate goal next year. Not only that, it seems as though it would have been possible if he were more focused on the task at hand. Tell him to entertain other offers but to get back to us if something better comes up.

 

I'm not pleased with Radulov either though and there is a chance he really was the one being difficult. 

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