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Link67    95

He doesn't need to breakout he is already a good player who was good enough for SJ and will be good enough for us. I'm just saying because of our current dilemma he is likely to have to fill a bigger role than expected, and based on what i've seen he might just be able to pull it off.

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DON    9
28 minutes ago, Link67 said:

He doesn't need to breakout he is already a good player who was good enough for SJ and will be good enough for us. I'm just saying because of our current dilemma he is likely to have to fill a bigger role than expected, and based on what i've seen he might just be able to pull it off.

Likely more as the 16:44 guy as was in SJ and not 18:38 guy from NJ. Just my guess, as Davidson-Streit-Morrow may steal some icetime, but hope you are correct and he can play big minutes once in a while.

He is supposed to be a strong skater isn't he? (I cant ever recall seeing him play)

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Stogey24    221
13 hours ago, Link67 said:

He doesn't need to breakout he is already a good player who was good enough for SJ and will be good enough for us. I'm just saying because of our current dilemma he is likely to have to fill a bigger role than expected, and based on what i've seen he might just be able to pull it off.

"Good enough". Gotta love this forum 

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DON    9
7 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

"Good enough". Gotta love this forum 

You do know you are now whining about a low paid 3rd pairing d-man. SOME on this forum are just bitching and complaining about f'in everything Habs-related these days.

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Stogey24    221
29 minutes ago, DON said:

You do know you are now whining about a low paid 3rd pairing d-man. SOME on this forum are just bitching and complaining about f'in everything Habs-related these days.

It's generalization. I don't care about Schlemko specifically 

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Link67    95
46 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

"Good enough". Gotta love this forum 

 

what is good enough then? if good enough isn't good enough for you?

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28 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

what is good enough then? if good enough isn't good enough for you?

 

I think what he's driving at is the basic division on this forum: between Bergevin's defenders, who seem generally grateful just to have a team that makes the playoffs (when 'anything is possible') and his critics, who are angry that the team has basically failed to improve since 2014 and is no more of a legit contender now than it was then, while having a decimated development system. The former are the 'good enough' crowd. The latter want to see San Jose signing OUR rejects and having their fans hope that those rejects have untapped potential due to having been buried behind a deep roster.

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DON    9
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

It's generalization. I don't care about Schlemko specifically 

And just dismissive of the suggestion that a player, who someone thinks may do more than many expect, should fit in fine? What is wrong with that?

 

I don't know the player at all, but signing Schlemko was seen as a solid signing by all the talking heads and other than the cynical few, no one complained at the time. 

http://www.habsworld.net/2017/06/habs-acquire-defenceman-david-schlemko/

 

Edited by DON
added signing bit

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hab29RETIRED    159
57 minutes ago, Link67 said:

 

what is good enough then? if good enough isn't good enough for you?

i don't want good enough to play in the NHL.  I want good enough to be help us bring the friggin cup home - which isn't going to happen with MB running the show.

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hab29RETIRED    159
1 hour ago, DON said:

You do know you are now whining about a low paid 3rd pairing d-man. SOME on this forum are just bitching and complaining about f'in everything Habs-related these days.

thats because every f'in thing the habs do is to sign or trade for bottom pairing D, or 4th line players or "leadership".  Some are satisfied with being one and done in the playoffs, others want the GM to make some moves that gives us a legitimate shot to win the friggin cup.  You obviously are happy with just being one and done.

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Link67    95
2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I think what he's driving at is the basic division on this forum: between Bergevin's defenders, who seem generally grateful just to have a team that makes the playoffs (when 'anything is possible') and his critics, who are angry that the team has basically failed to improve since 2014 and is no more of a legit contender now than it was then, while having a decimated development system.

 

Doesn't change the fact Schlemko is good enough for this defense corps, he is an upgrade over various Dmen we had playing on the ice last season, and has the tools to take on a bit more than he was intended to now that Markov is gone. That is the point I am driving home, if this Defense stays the way it is that means Alzner plays an increased role and Schlemko being the next best LHD plays an increased role, is it Ideal? No of course not, Can he do it? He certainly seems to have the tools and plays the game in a very new age defense style based on mobility and puck moving. 

 

I'm simply playing out the scenario in my head where this defense remains the way it is, but we add top 6 center in the coming months with our available capspace. Ultimately we are going to have to choose whether offensive lines remain the same or this defense corps remains the same and spend the available cap on one aspect.

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I'm with 29 that good enough is not enough.

 

I don't want a good enough backup, a good enough sixth man, or a good enough assistant coach. And I certainly don't want a good enough first line centre, or a good enough first pairing defenceman. I want a team that gets as close as possible to undeniable contender. We've gone through the "Heart Attack" Habs and now we got the "Good Enough" Habs. I want more. 

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Commandant    599
3 hours ago, DON said:

You do know you are now whining about a low paid 3rd pairing d-man. SOME on this forum are just bitching and complaining about f'in everything Habs-related these days.

 

You do know that the issue isn't him as a third pairing dman.  Its the fact that lack of a top pairing dman means he is legitimately being considered as a possible top pair guy?

 

Thats the issue.  I don't see anyone saying he's not a capable 3rd pair guy. 

 

I see big questions if he's a top 4. 

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DON    9
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

You do know that the issue isn't him as a third pairing dman.  Its the fact that lack of a top pairing dman means he is legitimately being considered as a possible top pair guy?

 

Thats the issue.  I don't see anyone saying he's not a capable 3rd pair guy. 

 

I see big questions if he's a top 4. 

30yr old $2m d-men typically don't slot in top four, but if you want to project something that is unlikely, seemingly just for something else to complain about and add to list of fireable offenses, seems normal.

Berkshire taught you well young fellow!:P  no one deserves that cheap a shot.

Edited by DON
add crap

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Stogey24    221
3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I think what he's driving at is the basic division on this forum: between Bergevin's defenders, who seem generally grateful just to have a team that makes the playoffs (when 'anything is possible') and his critics, who are angry that the team has basically failed to improve since 2014 and is no more of a legit contender now than it was then, while having a decimated development system. The former are the 'good enough' crowd. The latter want to see San Jose signing OUR rejects and having their fans hope that those rejects have untapped potential due to having been buried behind a deep roster.

God... Amen 

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Link67    95

so does Bergevin leave the Defense..

 

Alzner - Weber

Schelmko - Petry

Streit/Davidson/Jerabek - Benn

 

and go for a top center, or does he leave the top 6 forwards as..

 

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Drouin

Lehkonen - Danault - Gallagher

 

and go for a top 3 or 4 LHD with the available cap, one of these scenarios will play out, which one as a fanbase are we most comfortable with? I for one am in the camp that this team needs a top line center more than anything, and has needed that more than anything for a long time, so I know where i'd like to see the move take place.

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dlbalr    645
30 minutes ago, DON said:

30yr old $2m d-men typically don't slot in top four, but if you want to project something that is unlikely, seemingly just for something else to complain about and add to list of fireable offenses, seems normal.

1

 

How unlikely is it though?  Who is the second top-four LD (Alzner being the first) as things stand?  It's one of Schlemko, Davidson, Streit, or Jerabek in all likelihood.  Of those, Schlemko has the most experience and there's a case to be made that he'd be the best option of the four to play in the top four (at least to start) despite the fact it wouldn't be an ideal scenario.

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Commandant    599
33 minutes ago, DON said:

30yr old $2m d-men typically don't slot in top four, but if you want to project something that is unlikely, seemingly just for something else to complain about and add to list of fireable offenses, seems normal.

Berkshire taught you well young fellow!:P  no one deserves that cheap a shot.

 

Who is the number four defenceman then.

 

the 30 year old $2 million guy

the 26 year old with 0 NHL games?

the 39 year old $700,000 guy

the 25 year old who was a regular healthy scratch in Edmonton, and then in Montreal. 

the 24 year old who was a healthy scratch for 16 straight games under Julien in boston, was not given a qualifying offer by the Bruins, and is now on an NHL minimum deal as a UFA

 

Which of these guys is your top 4 defenceman. 

 

 

That's what we are complaining about.  There is no one on this roster, on July 29th, to take a top four spot.  And there is nothing in UFA that we can sign either. 

 

The NHL traditionally sees very few trades in August, and even fewer significant trades in August.

 

so what is the plan?

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Stogey24    221
3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Who is the number four defenceman then.

 

the 30 year old $2 million guy

the 26 year old with 0 NHL games?

the 39 year old $700,000 guy

the 25 year old who was a regular healthy scratch in Edmonton, and then in Montreal. 

the 24 year old who was a healthy scratch for 16 straight games under Julien in boston, was not given a qualifying offer by the Bruins, and is now on an NHL minimum deal as a UFA

 

Which of these guys is your top 4 defenceman. 

 

 

That's what we are complaining about.  There is no one on this roster, on July 29th, to take a top four spot.  And there is nothing in UFA that we can sign either. 

 

The NHL traditionally sees very few trades in August, and even fewer significant trades in August.

 

so what is the plan?

Good post. 

 

You shouldn't even have to explain that 

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Link67    95
4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Who is the number four defenceman then.

 

the 30 year old $2 million guy

the 26 year old with 0 NHL games?

the 39 year old $700,000 guy

the 25 year old who was a regular healthy scratch in Edmonton, and then in Montreal. 

the 24 year old who was a healthy scratch for 16 straight games under Julien in boston, was not given a qualifying offer by the Bruins, and is now on an NHL minimum deal as a UFA

 

Which of these guys is your top 4 defenceman. 

 

 

That's what we are complaining about.  There is no one on this roster, on July 29th, to take a top four spot.  And there is nothing in UFA that we can sign either. 

 

The NHL traditionally sees very few trades in August, and even fewer significant trades in August.

 

so what is the plan?

 

I think at this point it has to the 30 year old 2 million guy, he is the best of the bunch at the very least, and since Jerabek is an unknown with potential, perhaps he is the guy you groom for the job during the year. the bottom line is an NHL team is comprised of all its parts, in this case, even a less than ideal defense can be helped out by an elite goalie like Price on a nightly basis. Price however cannot help our forwards score goals, and that is why I believe the right thing to do, given the current state of things, is to move forward with this D and go get a true top 6 player up front.

 

the sum of those parts should be more of an improvement,  than reinforcing the part of this team our Best Player can mitigate by himself.

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Commandant    599

While Price can't help the forwards score, what can help forwards score goals is effective transition from the defence to the forwards, and I'm not seeing that with this group. 

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Stogey24    221
5 minutes ago, Commandant said:

While Price can't help the forwards score, what can help forwards score goals is effective transition from the defence to the forwards, and I'm not seeing that with this group. 

You would think with having a goalie like Price in net, Bergevin would go after D-men who are fleet of foot and have the ability to take risks.  

 

I get it's probably not the safest plan, but why go the route of shot blocking, stay at home d-men; when you have the most expensive goalie in the league. Its counter intuitive

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Commandant    599
12 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

You would think with having a goalie like Price in net, Bergevin would go after D-men who are fleet of foot and have the ability to take risks.  

 

I get it's probably not the safest plan, but why go the route of shot blocking, stay at home d-men; when you have the most expensive goalie in the league. Its counter intuitive

 

Especially with the NHL going for puck movers around the league. 

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xXx..CK..xXx    125

I think while the issue is fair to bring up, we have to think that there weren't many more options out there. Markov and Alzner were the best left pairing defensemen available in free agency and even at this point, Markov isn't an ideal top pairing guy for mostly reasons that have little to nothing to do with skill. I still would have signed him for this season, but it's fair to question whether or not he was the real answer either.

 

There are two things that are very clear to me:

 

1) We don't have the d-corps that anyone envisioned, Bergevin included.

 

2) The options to solve that issue were thin. Despite my love for Markov, it almost feels like the timing was right in an eerie way. This is outside of the fact that we need some skill on the top pair but if that weren't uniquely true to us, I'm still not sure he's the best solution for a team that wants to compete for the cup.

 

I still would have preferred him over any of our other options without a doubt.

 

I personally think we'll see either Streit or Alzner on the top pair. I think Schlemko should stay on the 3rd. It'll probably be Alzner and Streit on the power play. 

 

What I would do:

Streit-Weber (hate on)

Alzner-Petry

Schlemko-Benn

 

What I see happening:

 

Alzner-Weber

Schlemko-Petry

Streit-Benn

 

 

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Stogey24    221

So we have over 8 million in cap space. We could have used that to keep a legit #1 winger or a legit top 4 D-man, without giving up any type of asset. Just simply resign them. 

 

Now Bergevin has cap space that he can do virtually nothing with; without giving up something in return. 

 

He basically has to trade Gallagher to get a Markov type puck mover. Its mind boggling. 

 

Terribly managing his assets 

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