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Lovett's Magnatones

Fire Bergevin

431 posts in this topic

Bergevin has a plan and a vision for his hockey team. He stated before this season that they have to take a step back in order to move forward. So he got rid of veterans Gionta, Georges, Moen, Bourque and Bouillion. He wanted the old leadership core gone and for the new one to mold itself. It's going to take some time for this new group to come together and meanwhile MB will be adding pieces when necessary. He is not scared to shake things up but he is also patient enough to realize it wasn't the right time to harvest the future for right now. He has said time and time again that he wants to make Montreal a perennial contender. I have no reason to believe that he isn't on his way to doing that. It was another excellent season of GMing in my opinion.

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Bergevin has insisted patience despite on ice success.

Why the panic? Aside from usual Habsteria

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Bergevin has insisted patience despite on ice success.

Why the panic? Aside from usual Habsteria

That's all it is. With all due respect to Lovett, his thread is completely preposterous...even by the often-preposterous standards of internet fandom.

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Oh Lovett! lmao.. you miserable cat, you.. lmao

PERSPECTIVE! Imo, I think we are/were a season ahead of expected progression or development. I think that this off season will fully put a grade on what MB has done thus far.

Lets keep in mind that the 2016 IceCaps could possibly beat the 2015 Sabres.

With the farm looking luscious and the core intact. I think MB is about to trim the fat and make a hockey trade to fetch a top 6 stud. Pk Price & Pax are entering their prime. Draft picks and secondary prospects are futile to this roster and its potential for a 'dynasty' contender team.

Hopefully Petry signs for no more than Markov money & Chucky gets a Gallagher-esque contract. Hopefully DSP trains with Gallagher this off season! :pray:

Ultimately, I feel MB has been absolutely phenomenal.


That's all it is. With all due respect to Lovett, his thread is completely preposterous...even by the often-preposterous standards of internet fandom.

lmfao

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Bergevin has insisted patience despite on ice success.

Why the panic? Aside from usual Habsteria

That's all it is. With all due respect to Lovett, his thread is completely preposterous...even by the often-preposterous standards of internet fandom.

We'll see...if in the next two years this team suffers a major injury or two to Price, Subban or Pacioretty, we'll see this season as a missed opportunity.

But then again, we'll get to root for a team that has the character and depth to finish in eighth despite damn near anything.

Bergevin sucks.

Frankly, hockey for me is 90% entertainment, 10% results. I don't want to watch the next 2-3 seasons of MT/MB hockey.

I hope the boys step on the ice after they clear out their lockers and ring a few around the boards for old times' sake. A tear...

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I think MB has to be cut a little slack; it's not as if teams are looking to ship out 25+ goal scoring wingers, or talented centers with size, at a discounted rate on the trade market. Nor is it easy to shed overpaid dead weight currently on the roster.

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The idea that you have go 'all in' every single time you have a good season is a recipe for years of bottom-feeding. You end up with a decimated farm system and no draft picks, all for the sake of adding players like Antoine Vermette. Bergevin is proceeding EXACTLY as he should if the aim is to build a 'permanent' contender.

As for the idea that, if Price, PK, or Subban suffer severe injury, we will rue this lost opportunity: any team can say the same thing about its key players. That's not an argument.

I think Lovett is still thinking like it's 2008: that is, thinking in terms of one magical, miracle season, rather than building a champion piece by piece.

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I think Bergevin has done a great job and am definitely in full support of him.

With that being said, I don't appreciate the sentiment that Bergevin should be defended as a result of stating something like "this was a transition year so we needed to take a step back before going forward". Oh, so since he said that, I guess anything negative that happened shouldn't be attributed to him since he knew it would happen. After all, it was the plan all along!

Did everyone really just watch the playoffs without any hope that we would have a shot at the cup? Not only that, but specifically because Bergevin said we'd have less of a shot than last year? I know a lot actually may have but for me, may as well stop watching in October if it's like that.

Point is, is that's it's somewhat laughable for lack of a better way of putting it, that some would defend him based on the fact that he predicted a worse go this year when compared to last year. "Our GM said it would happen so his vision is going perfectly to plan". Long term vision or not, I can't agree with that. If you want to be a perennial contender, then you need to make an effort to get better every year and no, not by mortgaging the future; there are other ways.

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I wouldn't discount team health. This team was very healthy for the last two years. When was the last time that happened with the habs. It is a major factor in team success. It is the true measuring stick because there is no excuse that a star or two were out .the coulda shoulda wouldas are not there.

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Well, let's change the title hypothetically.

I was red hot after writing it, "Fire" is the wrong word, and the wrong action.

If I had written it the day after, the title would be "Why Does Marc Bergevin Get ZERO Criticism?"

He only catches flak when he makes a potentially catastrophic mistake like the Subban arbitration.

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Frankly, hockey for me is 90% entertainment, 10% results.

I'm not saying this as a "You should cheer for them instead" kinda way, but 90% entertainment and 10% results is how I'd describe the Oilers and Maple Leafs.

It's a complete circus there. Which is why they perpetually lose. An entertaining, embarrassing circus.

Until the NHL gets their head out of their ass and lets referees call more penalties, especially the dumb "post whistle" scrums that never result in penalties but should, goals will be down in the league and having a boring system with a great goalie is the only way you'll win.

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I think Bergevin has done a great job and am definitely in full support of him.

With that being said, I don't appreciate the sentiment that Bergevin should be defended as a result of stating something like "this was a transition year so we needed to take a step back before going forward". Oh, so since he said that, I guess anything negative that happened shouldn't be attributed to him since he knew it would happen. After all, it was the plan all along!

Did everyone really just watch the playoffs without any hope that we would have a shot at the cup? Not only that, but specifically because Bergevin said we'd have less of a shot than last year? I know a lot actually may have but for me, may as well stop watching in October if it's like that.

Point is, is that's it's somewhat laughable for lack of a better way of putting it, that some would defend him based on the fact that he predicted a worse go this year when compared to last year. "Our GM said it would happen so his vision is going perfectly to plan". Long term vision or not, I can't agree with that. If you want to be a perennial contender, then you need to make an effort to get better every year and no, not by mortgaging the future; there are other ways.

You are correct that this does not look like a team capable of winning a cup (short of a cinderella lucky year.) However, this does look like a team that is 1 or 2 key components away from being an almost unstoppable force for the cup. They question is, can MB fill those components? We don't need tinkering for bottom 6 forwards or bottom 2 d-men. The Habs have depth coming out their derriere. What we need are 1 or 2 more legitimate stars.

If I have a criticism of MB's performance so far, it's his apparent inability or unwillingness to pursue those stars. He's been very good at getting good value out of his depth (PAP notwithstanding). But he has so far not secured any new CORE players. He's gotta do so on the offseason.

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Those clear moves he has toake are the same clear moves that needed to be made last summer. Hopefully we don't end up with another PAP or malhotra.

In the Salary Cap era, even holding on to the performers you've already got is an achievement. So is jettisoning those who do not perform up to the salary you're paying them. (Dave Nonis's Clarkson trade was the best made by any GM in the entire NHL last year - and he traded for a guy who will never play another game in the NHL.)

MB now has some clear moves to make this off-season. We'll see if they improve.

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Those clear moves he has toake are the same clear moves that needed to be made last summer. Hopefully we don't end up with another PAP or malhotra.

That's my main gripe.

He traded Erik Cole and it created a roster issue that hasn't been solved in three seasons.

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You are correct that this does not look like a team capable of winning a cup (short of a cinderella lucky year.) However, this does look like a team that is 1 or 2 key components away from being an almost unstoppable force for the cup. They question is, can MB fill those components? We don't need tinkering for bottom 6 forwards or bottom 2 d-men. The Habs have depth coming out their derriere. What we need are 1 or 2 more legitimate stars.

If I have a criticism of MB's performance so far, it's his apparent inability or unwillingness to pursue those stars. He's been very good at getting good value out of his depth (PAP notwithstanding). But he has so far not secured any new CORE players. He's gotta do so on the offseason.

I can see how it came off that way, but I'm not one of those who have no hope. In fact, I've personally felt as though we had an outside shot these past two years. The Vanek trade was the most excited I've been as a fan because like you said, it gave us that missing piece. Then we lost it. This year, I may have been even more confident than last prior to each individual game for a different reason (Price). What I was trying to get at is that now that we are out, and even worse, prior to our elimination, people were letting it be known that Bergevin mentioned that this was a transition year and so we might take a step back. Now that we are eliminated it seems that this can now be used as a justification for the season and how Bergevin handled it. I know there are so many specifics when it comes to being a GM but I don't think taking a step back after a Conference Final appearance is an acceptable plan. I can agree with it being a realistic assessment because not many teams make the conference final, but I'm not fully on board with it being the "vision" or "plan". If so, hockey is way too much of a science and there's no reason to even watch the games.

Scenario A

We actually had a shot at winning the cup

We lost due to some unfortunate circumstances, like most teams and dug ourselves way too big of a hole against an evenly matched team. We knew it wouldn't be easy, but it's unfortunate we're out. We knew this year, we had just as much of a chance to hoist the cup as any of the other 5 teams that were left.

Scenario B

We never had a shot; it was the plan

We lost because we didn't believe it was the year to acquire the personnel to win a championship. If we won this year, we wouldn't have been able to win next year, or the year after. Because we didn't have the personnel, we knew the payers on our squad had a 0% chance of winning the Stanley Cup this year since we were aware that we would take a step back. They did their best.

I know which reality I will continue to live in.

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That's my main gripe.

He traded Erik Cole and it created a roster issue that hasn't been solved in three seasons.

Yeah because we were a real powerhouse the season Eric Cole played for us.
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Imo the moves he made during the season and trade dealine should have been made in the off-season. Moen & Bork should have been upgraded on. Petry brings an element the organization lacks. I hope that they can retain him. De La Rose & Pateryn quietly made the jump to NHL regular. Tinordi, McCarron, Scherbak, Hudon, Andrighetto, Reway on the cusp. I think next season, the Habs become perennial mainstay in the East for some time to come.

I trust MB, Dudley & Timmins. They will properly manage all these assets into something to remember.

Bergy can't be afraid to spend on the ideal UFAs either. The difference between Malhotra and Brian Boyle on July 1st can now be quantified.

Plus having Fucale as trade chip is mega imo.

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That's my main gripe.

He traded Erik Cole and it created a roster issue that hasn't been solved in three seasons.

There are two issues on the roster:

1. Top six right wing

2. Top four RD

We re-sign Petry, we fix that issue. However we're still working with temporary solutions (Cole had to be traded but we replaced him with a temporary solution in Ryder and then tried turning Briere into a solution in PAP, who didn't work) on the top six forward department. Internally we haven't been able to configure a solution.

Aside from that, Bergevin has repaired so many other issues and left us in a great cap situation. He re-signs Petry and finds us a top six RW solution this summer and we'll be gravy. Until then, I agree that he's been trying to hope for internal solutions in those positions and hasn't found it.

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Well, let's change the title hypothetically.

I was red hot after writing it, "Fire" is the wrong word, and the wrong action.

If I had written it the day after, the title would be "Why Does Marc Bergevin Get ZERO Criticism?"

He only catches flak when he makes a potentially catastrophic mistake like the Subban arbitration.

That is definitely fair. Everyone should be called to task when failure happens, and this year was a failure, though not of catastrophic size.

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Well, to be fair, despite being an MB fan, I was fairly disillusioned with him at the trade deadline when he didn't land an offensive threat like Vanek the year before.

Daring to criticize there got a few people here upset with me.

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Well, to be fair, despite being an MB fan, I was fairly disillusioned with him at the trade deadline when he didn't land an offensive threat like Vanek the year before.

Daring to criticize there got a few people here upset with me.

Fair enough, but I think that the Vanek deal set up an unfair expectation that MB is going to pull a scoring rabbit out of the hat every trade deadline. I happen to think that he made the best, cost-effective deal he could in getting Petry---and I would have been mightly pissed off if he had paid the price for vermette that Chicago did

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A few points..MB has taken this team lot further than it was before he was hired, for main reason:

1. Surrounding himself with people in the organization that hasn't existed in very long time. Identifying areas in Scouting, Development.

Now having said that, he inherited a team that had holes to fill and a byproduct of the previous management. ( Every time I watch NYR, I cringe as to why Gainey didnt talk to Timmins first about Ryan Mcdonagh!!!!!) I remember that draft year...and Timmins saying he was one of the very best players in the draft and a future C... Also, last year listening to sports talk show being interviewed, Sather mentioned he was offered 2 of 3 young def prospects in that trade. He took Mcdonagh and Valentenko.. ( I am sure if he was offered Valentenko and Fischer he would still had made that deal)!! Shaking head always on this one...Right up there with the Roy trade and the Pierre Turgeon Trade!!

I regressed , but always will be a sore point on this one!!

2. Few points ...

It does baffle the mind , about all the bottom 6 players being acquired, and the D acquired ( Weaver, Allen, Murray, Gonchar...) who is MB listening to in Scouting that has him making these trades?

Now, sure the Petry trade, and Vanek were justified...

But we are emptying the prospect opportunities. the 2nd and 3rd round drafts being given up or whatever round. No guarantee, and very small chance they will ever make it, BUT ITS A NUMBERS GAME!,

Look at this year and TB!!..check where Kucherov was drafted, and Habs didnt have a 2nd round pick that year!, one of many examples..

SO MB has to be careful in always giving away draft picks! The successful teams, again the final 4 this year

Chicago, Anaheim, NYR, TB all have done well drafting in the mid range drafts...every one of these rosters have recent picks in draft ...Successful scouting, plus development, and Coaching and management trusting to go with young players!!

Now, they also, have tweeked lineup with bold trade moves, maybe even overpaying by giving up first round picks. MB hasnt done that! give him credit for it..

ITS A THIN FA market this year.. so ASSET management...Something MB has relatively done ok with, not as bad as previous management. For now he should see where PETRY is at!!, if he cant be signed, sending him elsewhere for a 2nd or 3rd round pick, to get something back for him. Otherwise yes go and sign him NOW

There is nothing in MB actions that have him any reason to be fired at this stage. But all coaches and management at some point will get fired, but give him his chance. He knows this team has holes, let him try to solve them.

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ITS A THIN FA market this year.. so ASSET management...Something MB has relatively done ok with, not as bad as previous management. For now he should see where PETRY is at!!, if he cant be signed, sending him elsewhere for a 2nd or 3rd round pick, to get something back for him. Otherwise yes go and sign him NOW

It's not a great FA market, but there are a few that look interesting.

Available forwards that could add scoring up front (lots at RW where we need someone):

RW Justin Williams (someone wanted playoff scoring?)

RW Joel Ward

RW Erik Cole (wanna have another go?)

RW Michael Frolik

C Antoine Vermette

C Carl Soderberg

Both Centres are at best second line guys, though. Not an improvement on Plekanec. Someone like Williams could get me excited.

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Dear Santa Bergevin:

Nick Bjugstad or Ryan Johannson please..

thank you

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It's not a great FA market, but there are a few that look interesting.

Available forwards that could add scoring up front (lots at RW where we need someone):

RW Justin Williams (someone wanted playoff scoring?)

RW Joel Ward

RW Erik Cole (wanna have another go?)

RW Michael Frolik

C Antoine Vermette

C Carl Soderberg

Both Centres are at best second line guys, though. Not an improvement on Plekanec. Someone like Williams could get me excited.

About RW, none is better than Gallagher. I'd pass.

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