Fire Bergevin

[DON]

The numerical ranking is too harsh. But The Score's written assessment is spot on.

And we are supposed to take your jaded opinion on that? Dumb and Dumber could save a baby from burning building and you would complain they should of saved the hamster also.

Stole link from home page: http://rabidhabs.com/ten-reasons-habs-will-better-year-part-one/

[habs rule]

MB before "THE TRADE" would have ranked a lot higher. His obsession with 4th liners and 2nd rate defenceman bothers me. But he has made a lot of good moves. It will take him awhile to live down the PK trade.

[Toronthab]

And we are supposed to take your jaded opinion on that? Dumb and Dumber could save a baby from burning building and you would complain they should of saved the hamster also.

Stole link from home page: http://rabidhabs.com/ten-reasons-habs-will-better-year-part-one/

The hamster died!!! I hope it was painless. Was he smoking? I mean.. like cigarettes.. not after he caught fire. How are the hamlets?

MB before "THE TRADE" would have ranked a lot higher. His obsession with 4th liners and 2nd rate defenceman bothers me. But he has made a lot of good moves. It will take him awhile to live down the PK trade.

PK WAS TRADED!!!???

[Toronthab]

You said it.

We've come to the point where we've accepted Good Old Boy management like Americans accept scum politicians, and we've been absent talent at F for so long Max and Plekanec are supposed to be these big stars on the level of Seguin and Benn.

But wow, I couldn't hate Marc Bergevin more. It's been kind of shocking to see a presentable, personable GM morph into a real villain within the span of about a year. He doesn't even look like he wants to be the GM.

Happy to say I hated Bergevin two years before it was cool!

" scum politicians, "!! ??

What about Trump and Mrs Clinton??!!

Oh..ya....

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

And we are supposed to take your jaded opinion on that? Dumb and Dumber could save a baby from burning building and you would complain they should of saved the hamster also.

Stole link from home page: http://rabidhabs.com/ten-reasons-habs-will-better-year-part-one/

Actually, you are quite wrong. First, I've consistently agreed the team will be better overall next year (while maintaining that the Subban trade is a bad mistake that will haunt us for years) - although I believe that it will struggle more than in the past against super-fast forechecks from Pittsburgh and TB in particular. Secondly, I've never taken an axiomatic position on management - unlike your cheerleading self, or people who always hated them irrespective of what they did. The problem with The Trade is that, in addition to replacing our best player besides Price with an inferior one for no discernable hockey reason, it was one of those rare moments of what Yeats called 'character isolated by a deed.' It exposed, in other words, how management really thinks: i.e., hidebound, old-school, non-adaptation to the evolution of the game, prizing being a good Company Man and arse-kisser to management over performance on the ice, prioritizing personal ego over success. As Lovett said, Good Old Boy management. Leafs-style management. A management team that expunges a prodigiously gifted talent for the heinous crime of being too flamboyant (or driving a hard contractual bargain) is not one that truly has winning at heart, nor one that deserves our allegiance or trust. That said, when they do make a good move, I'll say so, as I always have.

[DON]

Actually, leaf style management was about being impatient, seemed to react too fans wants (opposite of Subban deal) and trading youth/picks/prospects for washed up vets...which dosent seem to fit current Habs Mgmt, but I know that dosent jive with what you are trying so hard to sell.

I got spare pom-poms for you and will save you a seat on the bandwagon, you will want them come next May.

(Jaded opinion was a bit harsh, maybe current displeasure with said GM would of been more better)

[hab29RETIRED]

So which Leafs fans wanted to dump Keon, McDonald, palmateer, or sittler?

Actually, leaf style management was about being impatient, seemed to react too fans wants (opposite of Subban deal) and trading youth/picks/prospects for washed up vets...which dosent seem to fit current Habs Mgmt, but I know that dosent jive with what you are trying so hard to sell.

I got spare pom-poms for you and will save you a seat on the bandwagon, you will want them come next May.

(Jaded opinion was a bit harsh, maybe current displeasure with said GM would of been more better)

[Commandant]

Dumbest thread of the decade....and I've seen a lot of 'em

I would have agreed at the time of this post.

Today the thread seems a lot more prophetic.

[DON]

I would have agreed at the time of this post.

Today the thread seems a lot more prophetic.

You would notice the date wouldn't you and yes it does, even though Lovett took a good beating when he started it. I still disagree it is at the point yet, but a Brisbois-Crawford tenure could be in near future if this season somehow does go off the rails.

[BCHabnut]

To me it's simple. He made some decent moves in the past. Sat in his hands in the past. Signed and traded for two teams worth of 4th liners, reclamation projects, and #8 defenseman.... in the past. He was patient and appeared to be a gm who was unwilling to mortgage the team's future. He was a decent gm in the past.

That was the past. In the now, He traded PK Subban for someone not named Tavares, Stamkos, Karlsson, Crosby, or Towes. He is a garbage gm.

[Toronthab]

Actually, you are quite wrong. First, I've consistently agreed the team will be better overall next year (while maintaining that the Subban trade is a bad mistake that will haunt us for years) - although I believe that it will struggle more than in the past against super-fast forechecks from Pittsburgh and TB in particular. Secondly, I've never taken an axiomatic position on management - unlike your cheerleading self, or people who always hated them irrespective of what they did. The problem with The Trade is that, in addition to replacing our best player besides Price with an inferior one for no discernable hockey reason, it was one of those rare moments of what Yeats called 'character isolated by a deed.' It exposed, in other words, how management really thinks: i.e., hidebound, old-school, non-adaptation to the evolution of the game, prizing being a good Company Man and arse-kisser to management over performance on the ice, prioritizing personal ego over success. As Lovett said, Good Old Boy management. Leafs-style management. A management team that expunges a prodigiously gifted talent for the heinous crime of being too flamboyant (or driving a hard contractual bargain) is not one that truly has winning at heart, nor one that deserves our allegiance or trust. That said, when they do make a good move, I'll say so, as I always have.

"t was one of those rare moments of what Yeats called 'character isolated by a deed.' ". Great line. But I feel a little naked...

[PMAC]

I would have agreed at the time of this post.

Today the thread seems a lot more prophetic.

You beat me to it Commandant! Talk about being quoted out of context I did agree at the time of the post--as I wrote it-- but it does seem an oddly prophetic thread now---and I would not question the " FIre Bergevin" thread had it appeared PST (post-subban trade). And I know i am beating a dead horse here, but i have lost faith in Bergevin not simply for trading Subban, but because he did not or could not get a pick or prospect out of Poile to compensate for Weber's inevitable decline. To me the lack of a sweetner makes it a bad deal especially since it did nothing to bolster our forwards. If I am going to trade my newer Ferrari for an older armour-plated hummer, I want a little extra. I make the trade because I need a different type of vehicle, but that doesn't change the fact that what I traded will be worth more for longer because it has fewer years and miles on it

[Guest Stogey24]

Pretty good analogy man

[illWill]

I also agree that the car analogy is a good one. I think I read somewhere that there were more pieces involved during negotiations but both GMs couldn't come to an agreement. Based on that I assume Bergevin tried to get more value but Poile stood his ground.

I think last season's performance by Bergevin was worse than anything else he has done this far. Filling two holes on the team with Semin and Kassian only to ship them away for nothing and not replace them. Then trades Smith-Pelly for an AHLer with a familiar last name. Thought he overpaid for Shaw but time will tell

[Guest Stogey24]

I know many don't agree, but I feel the Kassian move was a selfish one by Bergevin. He was pissed Kassian disobeyed him, and couldn't swallow his pride to atleast give him a shot with the big club.

Say what you want about speed in the bottom 6, but this team is SO soft. Kassian would have been a good fit on the 3Rd or 4th line.

[Scott462]

To me it's simple. He made some decent moves in the past. Sat in his hands in the past. Signed and traded for two teams worth of 4th liners, reclamation projects, and #8 defenseman.... in the past. He was patient and appeared to be a gm who was unwilling to mortgage the team's future. He was a decent gm in the past.

That was the past. In the now, He traded PK Subban for someone not named Tavares, Stamkos, Karlsson, Crosby, or Towes. He is a garbage gm.

I don't think PK would of been able to get any of those players man, if anything A LOT would have to go the other way with PK.

It would of also left a huge hole in the back line besides Karl.

[DON]

I know many don't agree, but I feel the Kassian move was a selfish one by Bergevin. He was pissed Kassian disobeyed him, and couldn't swallow his pride to atleast give him a shot with the big club.

He and Kassian both said he had be warned that had one chance. So for a borderline NHLer, Bergevin is supposed to say, don't worry its all good suit up.

Are you serious or is it free Margarita day where you reside?

[DON]

You beat me to it Commandant! Talk about being quoted out of context I did agree at the time of the post--as I wrote it-- but it does seem an oddly prophetic thread now---and I would not question the " FIre Bergevin" thread had it appeared PST (post-subban trade). And I know i am beating a dead horse here, but i have lost faith in Bergevin not simply for trading Subban, but because he did not or could not get a pick or prospect out of Poile to compensate for Weber's inevitable decline. To me the lack of a sweetner makes it a bad deal especially since it did nothing to bolster our forwards. If I am going to trade my newer Ferrari for an older armour-plated hummer, I want a little extra. I make the trade because I need a different type of vehicle, but that doesn't change the fact that what I traded will be worth more for longer because it has fewer years and miles on it

Yes, also like car analogy.

Quoted out of context, for sure...but just in jest and disagree that if Nashville had of tossed in X or Y would make any difference. Many would simply go to "Whoever gets the best player in a trade wins and Subban is superior in every way."

[PMAC]

Yes, also like car analogy.

Quoted out of context, for sure...but just in jest and disagree that if Nashville had of tossed in X or Y would make any difference. Many would simply go to "Whoever gets the best player in a trade wins and Subban is superior in every way."

Not really upset at the quote, no worries. If the X or Y tossed in was a quality player or prospect it would have made a big difference to my evaluation of the trade and Bergy's GM skills....I can't speak for anyone else.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Not really upset at the quote, no worries. If the X or Y tossed in was a quality player or prospect it would have made a big difference to my evaluation of the trade and Bergy's GM skills....I can't speak for anyone else.

I wonder how many more people would defend the deal if Bergevin was able to convince Poile to take Emelin with Subban.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If The Trade had included a top-6 FW or even a legit top-FW prospect, I'd have been sad to lose Subban but would have understood it as an organizational move.

If The Trade had resulted in substantial cap savings while getting back an inferior but still legitimate #1 defenceman (like Weber), I would have been upset, but deferred final judgement until I saw what Bergevin did with the cap savings. Which, given that he is a hidebound idiot, probably would have been nothing but a series of 4th liners - but still, I'd have deferred judgement.

And obviously if The Trade had gotten back a player of PK's calibre - i.e., a game-changing superstar - then I would have endorsed it, while anxiously wondering how he was going to fill the hole on the back-end.

But since The Trade simply traded a franchise player for an inferior and older player with negligible cap savings and a much longer contract, I'm with BC Habnut in his excellent post above. MB is a crap GM.

To me it's simple. He made some decent moves in the past. Sat in his hands in the past. Signed and traded for two teams worth of 4th liners, reclamation projects, and #8 defenseman.... in the past. He was patient and appeared to be a gm who was unwilling to mortgage the team's future. He was a decent gm in the past.
That was the past. In the now, He traded PK Subban for someone not named Tavares, Stamkos, Karlsson, Crosby, or Towes. He is a garbage gm.

Good post sir.

[Commandant]

To me it's simple. He made some decent moves in the past. Sat in his hands in the past. Signed and traded for two teams worth of 4th liners, reclamation projects, and #8 defenseman.... in the past. He was patient and appeared to be a gm who was unwilling to mortgage the team's future. He was a decent gm in the past.

That was the past. In the now, He traded PK Subban for someone not named Tavares, Stamkos, Karlsson, Crosby, or Towes. He is a garbage gm.

Exactly his small moves were decent.

When it came time to pull a blockbuster. He shit the bed.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

" scum politicians, "!! ??

What about Trump and Mrs Clinton??!!

Oh..ya....

Pick your poison there. Civil liberty smashing ball buster or incompetent boob.

[DON]

Not really upset at the quote, no worries. If the X or Y tossed in was a quality player or prospect it would have made a big difference to my evaluation of the trade and Bergy's GM skills....I can't speak for anyone else.

So Weber & Nash 1st pick, would that be enough to make majority happy?

(Just said 1st pick because don't know who they have that is any good in prospect pool or roster and too lazy to check it out.)

Many or most still think team is improved going into this season, so that has reflect a bit better for Bergevin to keep his job.

[Commandant]

The main reason the team is going to be improved is because we expect Carey Price to play more than 12 games. ... I don't know if Bergevin deserves too much credit for that.