Fire Bergevin

[DON]

2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Actually the new group that was brought in this year is showing me our old group is no good. 

My god Weber is scary with a puck on his stick, yesterday, he grabs puck and circles net for some reason and boom another turnover in danger zone.

And slow as Crankshaft, he looked in friggin slow motion on one icing, compared to the Oil forward.

 

Just sad to see.

[tomh009]

I really think Weber is playing through some kind of problem. Could be a shoulder -- no slapshots, and painful enough to slow him down and/or distract him. It's too big a change from last year to be just aging, I think.

[tomh009]

On 3/20/2018 at 5:15 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Nashville has acquired two legitimate top-6 C over the same span in which Bergevin has been moaning about it being "too tough" to get a top-6 C. I love how he tries to present himself as the voice of sagacity versus us ignorant fans, when HE is entirely responsible for taking a very good team and turning it into a steaming pile of dogsh*t.

Picking an old, old post, since the forum software promoted it.

 

I was curious enough, though, that I went and looked. Since this post, Nashville made the post-season (yeah, loosely defined) three times (better than the Habs) and won a grand total of one series (same as the Habs). And, three years later, how are they at C now? Arguably weaker than the Habs.

 

This doesn't in any way invalidate CC's post above, but it really reinforces the point that there are no guarantees. Even if you get the players you dream about, you may still end up being stuck on the ground floor.

[GHT120]

25 minutes ago, DON said:

My god Weber is scary with a puck on his stick, yesterday, he grabs puck and circles net for some reason and boom another turnover in danger zone.

And slow as Crankshaft, he looked in friggin slow motion on one icing, compared to the Oil forward.

 

Just sad to see.

It is ... I've always been a fan of Weber ... but the proverbial chickens seem to be coming home to roost ... his on-ice performance is declining (as many feared) just at the time his cap-hit is becoming the most problematic.

[Habsfan89]

51 minutes ago, DON said:

My god Weber is scary with a puck on his stick, yesterday, he grabs puck and circles net for some reason and boom another turnover in danger zone.

And slow as Crankshaft, he looked in friggin slow motion on one icing, compared to the Oil forward.

 

Just sad to see.

I think Weber and Price can still be useful, the problem i have is the deadwood around them that Bergevin thinks are good key players.  Man I would hate to see where this team would be without toffoli and Anderson. I am tired of hearing people say this guy has potential on a guy that's been in the league for 6+ year's.  I don't want use to over spend on these guys to try and keep them just based on the fact Bergevin thinks this is their big break out year. If it hasn't happened its not going to happen. 

[hab29RETIRED]

2 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I think Weber and Price can still be useful, the problem i have is the deadwood around them that Bergevin thinks are good key players.  Man I would hate to see where this team would be without toffoli and Anderson. I am tired of hearing people say this guy has potential on a guy that's been in the league for 6+ year's.  I don't want use to over spend on these guys to try and keep them just based on the fact Bergevin thinks this is their big break out year. If it hasn't happened its not going to happen. 

They can’t be useful at their cap hit. It’s more important to demo their cap hits and declining play than it is to get rid of depth players like Lekhonan and Armia. If we are going to change the core, we need to change the ACTUAL core.

[GHT120]

6 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I think Weber and Price can still be useful ...

Perhaps ... but the challenge is that neither is any longer as useful as is their impact on the cap ... now that the Habs have become "cap aggressive" in building their roster that is a problem

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

They can’t be useful at their cap hit. It’s more important to demo their cap hits and declining play than it is to get rid of depth players like Lekhonan and Armia. If we are going to change the core, we need to change the ACTUAL core.

 

Generally building a core starts with drafting and developing well, I am somewhat optimistic that Caufield, Suzuki, and KK will form the core of a good forward group and Romanov, Harris, Brooks, Guhle, Struble and Norlinder (hopefully at least of 3 of those 6 develop into NHL'ers) form the core of a good defence group. Occasionally you can steal a good core piece in a trade. Changing the core won't happen quickly but they have some good pieces that need to develop properly. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

5 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Perhaps ... but the challenge is that neither is any longer as useful as is their impact on the cap ... now that the Habs have become "cap aggressive" in building their roster that is a problem

 

Agreed. They are still useful but they need to be more than useful for the salaries they carry. I still think Carey has several good years left, Weber not so many. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Picking an old, old post, since the forum software promoted it.

 

I was curious enough, though, that I went and looked. Since this post, Nashville made the post-season (yeah, loosely defined) three times (better than the Habs) and won a grand total of one series (same as the Habs). And, three years later, how are they at C now? Arguably weaker than the Habs.

 

This doesn't in any way invalidate CC's post above, but it really reinforces the point that there are no guarantees. Even if you get the players you dream about, you may still end up being stuck on the ground floor.

 

Very true. On the other hand, since 2014 NSH has had 11 playoff series to the  Habs’ 5. They *won* as many series as the Habs played in over that span! And they went to the Finals to boot. So, you know, give me Nashville’s last decade over the Habs’, any day of the week,

 

(NSH is an odd story, actually; some of their key cogs aged out or regressed quite young, especially Johansen, but also Turris and Subban; and meanwhile Rinne just plain aged out, a problem anyone could see coming a mile off but which their GM did not address - rather like MB doing nothing to anticipate Plekanec’s aging out, or Markov’s).

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Very true. On the other hand, since 2014 NSH has had 11 playoff series to the  Habs’ 5. They *won* as many series as the Habs played in over that span! And they went to the Finals to boot. So, you know, give me Nashville’s last decade over the Habs’, any day of the week,

 

(NSH is an odd story, actually; some of their key cogs aged out or regressed quite young, especially Johansen, but also Turris and Subban; and meanwhile Rinne just plain aged out, a problem anyone could see coming a mile off but which their GM did not address - rather like MB doing nothing to anticipate Plekanec’s aging out, or Markov’s).

 

Juuse Saros has a .928 save percentage this season and .920 in his career.  What do you mean they didn't plan for Rinne's aging.  Saros is taking over as the starter (started 27 of 47 games this year) and doing quite well.

 

Last season he started 34 games out of 69 (nice) for Nashville and started all 4 games in the bubble.

 

He's the number 1 goalie and has taken that job from Rinne, and is getting more and more games each year. He's just 26.

 

They also have Askarov, who was taken 13th overall and is one of the best goalie prospects in the world... but with Saros just 26, there is no need to rush him.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

23 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Juuse Saros has a .928 save percentage this season and .920 in his career.  What do you mean they didn't plan for Rinne's aging.  Saros is taking over as the starter (started 27 of 47 games this year) and doing quite well.

 

Last season he started 34 games out of 69 (nice) for Nashville and started all 4 games in the bubble.

 

He's the number 1 goalie and has taken that job from Rinne, and is getting more and more games each year. He's just 26.

 

They also have Askarov, who was taken 13th overall and is one of the best goalie prospects in the world... but with Saros just 26, there is no need to rush him.

 

Ha ha, OK, my bad! I stand corrected. 

[tomh009]

14 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Very true. On the other hand, since 2014 NSH has had 11 playoff series to the  Habs’ 5. They *won* as many series as the Habs played in over that span! And they went to the Finals to boot. So, you know, give me Nashville’s last decade over the Habs’, any day of the week,

 

(NSH is an odd story, actually; some of their key cogs aged out or regressed quite young, especially Johansen, but also Turris and Subban; and meanwhile Rinne just plain aged out, a problem anyone could see coming a mile off but which their GM did not address - rather like MB doing nothing to anticipate Plekanec’s aging out, or Markov’s).

When you look at the decade, it's very true. I only looked at the three years since the original post, and those three were less than impressive.

[DON]

20 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

 and Romanov, Harris, Brooks, Guhle, Struble and Norlinder (hopefully at least of 3 of those 6 develop into NHL'ers) form the core of a good defence group. 

Harris could go to highest bidder now, or his favourite american team perhaps.

Brook, Struble dont hold much hope will amount to much.

Norlinder, i wouldnt expect alot from him neither, but hope am wrong.

 

Romanov & Guhle are only 2 i 'expect' to be good NHL d-men.

[tomh009]

4 hours ago, DON said:

Harris could go to highest bidder now, or his favourite american team perhaps.

Brook, Struble dont hold much hope will amount to much.

Norlinder, i wouldnt expect alot from him neither, but hope am wrong.

 

Romanov & Guhle are only 2 i 'expect' to be good NHL d-men.

I think Brook should be capable of being a regular third-pairing guy. Of course, there is still much uncertainty.

 

I'm somewhat surprised you are not expecting Norlinder to be able to crack the Habs' lineup.

[Commandant]

I think Brook has a lot to offer.  He's taken a big step in Laval this season. 

 

I also think Fleury could still be a third pair guy, and I think Struble has a chance too. 

 

Harris is pretty good if we can get him signed. 

[alfredoh2009]

3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I think Brook has a lot to offer.  He's taken a big step in Laval this season. 

 

I also think Fleury could still be a third pair guy, and I think Struble has a chance too. 

 

Harris is pretty good if we can get him signed. 

I am surprised to read that Norlinder and Strubble’s stock is not as high

 

Tough year for prospects in sports, not much of a chance to get better

[Commandant]

1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I am surprised to read that Norlinder and Strubble’s stock is not as high

 

Tough year for prospects in sports, not much of a chance to get better

 

I think Norlinder's stock is really high.  He played well in a tough league. 

 

Struble, he's got some developing to do so. 

[alfredoh2009]

55 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I think Norlinder's stock is really high.  He played well in a tough league. 

 

Struble, he's got some developing to do so. 

 

thanks, don't know why I got the impression that we (the forum) were lowering our expectation for these two

[DON]

2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

I think Brook should be capable of being a regular third-pairing guy. Of course, there is still much uncertainty.

 

I'm somewhat surprised you are not expecting Norlinder to be able to crack the Habs' lineup.

Maybe Norlinder will crack lineup in couple years, but top 4 d-man anywhere in near future, i say no. Same for Brook, maybe will carve out a spot, but I dont expect either to be a difference maker, just more depth.

Harris, Guhle seem more promising.

Have little (none) hope for Struble, dont think he will ever make NHL, maybe he will be like Evans and develop well in NCAA, but dont think so.

Just my expectations, i know many are quite high on Norlinder and i didnt think Romanov would do as well as he has starting out.

So what do i know, other than vast majority of Habs (and every other team's) prospects fizzle out and never do much at all.

  

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

33 minutes ago, DON said:

Maybe Norlinder will crack lineup in couple years, but top 4 d-man anywhere in near future, i say no. Same for Brook, maybe will carve out a spot, but I dont expect either to be a difference maker, just more depth.

Harris, Guhle seem more promising.

Have little (none) hope for Struble, dont think he will ever make NHL, maybe he will be like Evans and develop well in NCAA, but dont think so.

Just my expectations, i know many are quite high on Norlinder and i didnt think Romanov would do as well as he has starting out.

So what do i know, other than vast majority of Habs (and every other team's) prospects fizzle out and never do much at all.

  

 

 

It is a crapshoot. I am certainly no pro scout and am only going by what I read and clips I have seen. Norlinder seems to have a lot of offensive ability, Harris has progressed well and Brooks impressed the heck out of me in junior but struggled in his 1st AHL year but has bounced back. I have never seen Struble play but have seen enough from Romanov and Guhle to think they have can have long careers because of their mobility and attitude.  I know defenceman take longer to develop. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

It is a crapshoot. I am certainly no pro scout and am only going by what I read and clips I have seen. Norlinder seems to have a lot of offensive ability, Harris has progressed well and Brooks impressed the heck out of me in junior but struggled in his 1st AHL year but has bounced back. I have never seen Struble play but have seen enough from Romanov and Guhle to think they have can have long careers because of their mobility and attitude.  I know defenceman take longer to develop. 

I just don’t Harris coming back, when he can pick his team and given our D had a good of being given a serious look. Hope I’m wrong, but I think he’ll pick his team.

[Trizzak]

20 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I just don’t Harris coming back, when he can pick his team and given our D had a good of being given a serious look. Hope I’m wrong, but I think he’ll pick his team.

Evans had the same option but was loyal to the Habs. Then again, Jake probably looked at the Habs center depth and started salivating. Harris might look at all the LD Habs and prospects and say, "eff this, I'm going to Detroit."

[GHT120]

9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I just don’t Harris coming back, when he can pick his team and given our D had a good of being given a serious look. Hope I’m wrong, but I think he’ll pick his team.

He can only pick his team by signing next summer and starting his entry level contract in 22/23 ... he can sign with the habs near the end of 21/22, play one game and burn a year off his ELC ... a fairly substantive advantage unless he HATES the idea of plating for the HABs

[DON]

If plays out as expected and Leafs steamroll Habs in 4 or 5 games, will Molson actually fire Bergevin? Or do you think he will give him another off season to make changes?