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What will it take to make Habs a better club?

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Meller93    123

Backes will likely cost a 1st rounder, McCarron and Galchenyuk. But, of course he or Oshie would look good in a Hab jersey.

DD+ some more of future for Yakupov?

Did you go to the Mike Milbury school of personal management? :bonk:

Personally there's no way I'd do that for Backes. Not sure I'd do Backes for Chucky straight up actually. Chucky has youth and potential on his side, where as Backes is essentially a physical Plekanec (great player), but probably not worth the long term. Not saying you're off on what he could cost. On the other hand, I feel that Yakupov would cost more than DD + future, unless you mean blue chip prospects like Scherbak/McCarron and a 2nd by future. Just feel like they won't give up a 1st overall up easily.

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I disagree with the cost of Backes.. He is what he is.. a big 60 point centre..

Pleks, Tinordi, and a 1st gets it done. Maybe add Andrighetto or Hudon.

My point is.. World class goalie. A superstar defenceman. MB needs to do whatever it takes to put the Habs in a position to win now.

If that means moving a Scherbek or McCarron then you do it. Give Carey a chance to win it all.

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sim.on    32

I disagree with the cost of Backes.. He is what he is.. a big 60 point centre..

Pleks, Tinordi, and a 1st gets it done. Maybe add Andrighetto or Hudon.

My point is.. World class goalie. A superstar defenceman. MB needs to do whatever it takes to put the Habs in a position to win now.

If that means moving a Scherbek or McCarron then you do it. Give Carey a chance to win it all.

This line of thinking is along the lines of the Penguins strategy. I think MB is thinking more along the lines of the Red Wings strategy.

And before anyone says that Detroit hasen't won anything in a while, Pittsburgh much better and they have fewer assets for the future.

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If getting into the playoffs is the goal, then stay the course.

But a talent like Price doesn't come along very often, so if you have to mortgage the future a bit to give him a good chance, I'm not sure why you wouldn't.

I'd rather win 1 cup and miss the playoffs for 9 years then to be into the playoffs for 10 but never make it to the Finals.

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hab29RETIRED    169

Backes will likely cost a 1st rounder, McCarron and Galchenyuk. But, of course he or Oshie would look good in a Hab jersey.

DD+ some more of future for Yakupov?

Did you go to the Mike Milbury school of personal management? :bonk:

why would the Oilers wan't DD??? He doesn't fill any need for them. They got NGH as their offensive #1 centre, with McDavid ready to take over that role in 2 years - if not next year. They got Draisetl who is around 2 years away from being a solid 2 way centre.

DD could only be a #3 offensive centre in Edmonton and couldn't be an effective defensively in a woman's league (would also probably be smaller than most of the woman to!!). Edmonton needs a centre like Pleks. Can add offence to take pressure off of McDavid in year 1. Pleks can play shut-down D and with his work ethic be a quite leader. I think people really under-value what Pleks would bring in a trade. He is going to be a UFA in a year, but to a team like Edmonton, Buffalo, Florida, NYI, Nashville and Washington (as well as others), would bring a pretty good return, because he is exactly what these teams need to either make the playoffs or take the next step and buys time for those teams until their kids are ready.

They need a Defense. They got a couple of young dmen, but thanks to McTavish's stupidity, traded away some of the veterens like Smid who could be useful while those young dmen are ready. Emelin, Gilbert (who Oilers fan hate) and markov would interest them. Markov and Emelin have no trade clauses and despite Markov being a shadow of himself, I'd hang on to him and gave him a reduced role, and i can't see him waiving his no trade for edmonton. I doubt Emelin would either, but I would try and move Emelin.

Oilers are rumoured to be going after every available goalie and may also use their 2nd 1st round pick to draft a goalie. We don't have an experienced goalie to offer them (I doubt they'd be interested in Tokarski), but do have a fairly decent prospect in Fucale.

Pleks, Emelin, Fucale, Gilbert, Tinordi and our 26th, for Draistal, Yakapov and their two second round picks.

Provides Edmonton enough depth to make the playoffs next year and have a goalie that is ready in 2 years. It gives us the scorer who has played with Galchenyuk and may lead to break out years for both Yakapov and Galchenyuk. Draisatl may not be ready next year, but it would finally set us up with an abundance of skill and size at centre.

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Habs30/31    60

I don't think any argument can be made that Pleks is more important to the team than Eller and DD.. but the reason why you trade Pleks and keep Eller is the return.

If you're expecting to be successful (Stanley Cup successful) next year and you think the Habs can get it done with Pleks, Eller, and DD as your top 3 centres, than you're not being realistic. Habs need to improve their top 6 to give the team a chance to win it all.. So, how do you do that? You move Pleks. The return on DD and Eller wouldn't be big enough ..

Top 3 centres of Player Acquired, Galchenyuk, and Eller is a significant upgrade over Pleks, DD, Eller..

I would agree that scenario would be a significant upgrade.

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Dalhabs    80

why would the Oilers wan't DD??? He doesn't fill any need for them. They got NGH as their offensive #1 centre, with McDavid ready to take over that role in 2 years - if not next year. They got Draisetl who is around 2 years away from being a solid 2 way centre.

DD could only be a #3 offensive centre in Edmonton and couldn't be an effective defensively in a woman's league (would also probably be smaller than most of the woman to!!). Edmonton needs a centre like Pleks. Can add offence to take pressure off of McDavid in year 1. Pleks can play shut-down D and with his work ethic be a quite leader. I think people really under-value what Pleks would bring in a trade. He is going to be a UFA in a year, but to a team like Edmonton, Buffalo, Florida, NYI, Nashville and Washington (as well as others), would bring a pretty good return, because he is exactly what these teams need to either make the playoffs or take the next step and buys time for those teams until their kids are ready.

They need a Defense. They got a couple of young dmen, but thanks to McTavish's stupidity, traded away some of the veterens like Smid who could be useful while those young dmen are ready. Emelin, Gilbert (who Oilers fan hate) and markov would interest them. Markov and Emelin have no trade clauses and despite Markov being a shadow of himself, I'd hang on to him and gave him a reduced role, and i can't see him waiving his no trade for edmonton. I doubt Emelin would either, but I would try and move Emelin.

Oilers are rumoured to be going after every available goalie and may also use their 2nd 1st round pick to draft a goalie. We don't have an experienced goalie to offer them (I doubt they'd be interested in Tokarski), but do have a fairly decent prospect in Fucale.

Pleks, Emelin, Fucale, Gilbert, Tinordi and our 26th, for Draistal, Yakapov and their two second round picks.

Provides Edmonton enough depth to make the playoffs next year and have a goalie that is ready in 2 years. It gives us the scorer who has played with Galchenyuk and may lead to break out years for both Yakapov and Galchenyuk. Draisatl may not be ready next year, but it would finally set us up with an abundance of skill and size at centre.

Why would they trade elite pieces like Yakupov and Draisaitl for a package? They can trade one of those straight up for a young top four dman.

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illWill    423

Why would they trade elite pieces like Yakupov and Draisaitl for a package? They can trade one of those straight up for a young top four dman.

Because 10 player deals happen all the time. Especially for a young 1st overall and 4th overall pick and sending out over 10 million more in salary than what's coming back. I swear some people are delusional when it comes to trades. Just because they like a certain player doesn't mean they are getting traded, and if they don't, it doesn't mean our GM isn't trying. There isn't a magic wand that can be waved

Edit: just noticed it's my 1000th post :habslogo:

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If getting into the playoffs is the goal, then stay the course.

But a talent like Price doesn't come along very often, so if you have to mortgage the future a bit to give him a good chance, I'm not sure why you wouldn't.

I'd rather win 1 cup and miss the playoffs for 9 years then to be into the playoffs for 10 but never make it to the Finals.

It's actually an interesting question. Would you rather be the San Jose Sharks, a team that's knocking on the door for a decade without making the Finals, or some team that does as you describe? E.g., Calgary after 1989?

The answer is not obvious to me. You're talking about nine years of wretchedness and one Cup, versus 10 years of great hockey and thrilling playoff competition. Indeed, the scenario you sketch is roughly what happened to the Habs after 1993. I don't remember anyone suffering through the Houle era going, 'well, we won in 1993, so that makes all these putrid teams OK.'

Frankly, I don't believe most fans who say that they want to go 'all in' and damn the torpedoes. I think this is just code for saying 'I REALLY WANT MY TEAM TO WIN THE CUP' and nothing more than that. Indeed, I'm pretty sure of two things:

1. If the team mortgages the future and does all the 'right' managerial moves, but still falls short of the Cup - which is more likely to happen than actually winning the Cup (c.f. Pittsburgh, which has often been hailed as 'winning' Trade Deadline Day and has exactly zilch to show for it) - within a year or two fans will be howling for blood and the management will be fired. Nobody will then remember that management did what they wanted them to do and go 'All In.'

2. Even if the team does win a Cup, the afterglow will have worn off within 2-3 years, after which time unremitting anger and bitterness will be all that these fans feel. Hell, just look at Boston, firing Chiarelli after one disastrous injury-riddled season.

The real key for me is that 'going all in' is no guarantee of winning anyway. No, what you need to do is build an excellent team that has a legitimate chance every year. Be prepared to trade some future assets to make the necessary tweaks as you move along. But voiding the cupboard in some frenzied attempt to win RIGHT NOW isn't something I'd do.

Anyway, this team has a number of years to go before the core declines. No need to panic.

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DON    27

Yes many seems to want to go 'BIG" on dealing, but as soon as I mention will cost a Galchenyuk-Pacioretty-Scherbak-McCarron-Gallagher and god forbid if I mention trade Subban.

All the 'brave' wheelers and dealers get a bit skeptical on going 'all-in' for adding a superstar forward.

OK, want Draistle & Eberle...offer Subban + stuff to Oilers, might get new GM to bite then.

As Oilers blogger mentioned.."Habs have no one they need..except what they wont part with" (#67, 31, 76).

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Backes will likely cost a 1st rounder, McCarron and Galchenyuk. But, of course he or Oshie would look good in a Hab jersey.

DD+ some more of future for Yakupov?

Did you go to the Mike Milbury school of personal management? :bonk:

Backes and Oshie crumble in the playoffs.

Backes is also on a one year deal. Anyone giving up a substantial amount for him is silly and won't have a job for very long.

("We have an announcement to make...")

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habs rule    392

"If you listen to the fans then you will be sitting with them before long." Still true after all these years.

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DON    27

Unless your team is located in Quebec and ownership (and thus GM as well) must pay attention and cater to Media-Politicians-fanbase, unlike any other franchise.

(See coach Cunneyworth for example)

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BCHabnut    163

One guy we aren't talking about, who might improve the team next year is DE LA Rose. He reminds me a lot of young Pleks. Reliable and smart at 19 years old. Defensively aware and almost always makes the smart play. A modest offensive boost from him of 15 to 20 points could make a big difference. You can win it all with goaltending, defense, and three responsible second line scoring lines. Boston did it. I really think that this is the model that MB will follow. Unless someone breaks out.

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Habs30/31    60

"If you listen to the fans then you will be sitting with them before long." Still true after all these years.

Fans wanted to sign PK long term, keep Price over Halak,, keep NB, let go of Gionta, trade Bourque and Moen, Most want MB to keep Therrien and wanted Petry signed long term. Most of the decisions MB made, ninety-five per cent of fans would and did make the same call. :thumbs_up:

But its still a cool phrase, I agree.

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It's actually an interesting question. Would you rather be the San Jose Sharks, a team that's knocking on the door for a decade without making the Finals, or some team that does as you describe? E.g., Calgary after 1989?

The answer is not obvious to me. You're talking about nine years of wretchedness and one Cup, versus 10 years of great hockey and thrilling playoff competition. Indeed, the scenario you sketch is roughly what happened to the Habs after 1993. I don't remember anyone suffering through the Houle era going, 'well, we won in 1993, so that makes all these putrid teams OK.'

Frankly, I don't believe most fans who say that they want to go 'all in' and damn the torpedoes. I think this is just code for saying 'I REALLY WANT MY TEAM TO WIN THE CUP' and nothing more than that. Indeed, I'm pretty sure of two things:

1. If the team mortgages the future and does all the 'right' managerial moves, but still falls short of the Cup - which is more likely to happen than actually winning the Cup (c.f. Pittsburgh, which has often been hailed as 'winning' Trade Deadline Day and has exactly zilch to show for it) - within a year or two fans will be howling for blood and the management will be fired. Nobody will then remember that management did what they wanted them to do and go 'All In.'

2. Even if the team does win a Cup, the afterglow will have worn off within 2-3 years, after which time unremitting anger and bitterness will be all that these fans feel. Hell, just look at Boston, firing Chiarelli after one disastrous injury-riddled season.

The real key for me is that 'going all in' is no guarantee of winning anyway. No, what you need to do is build an excellent team that has a legitimate chance every year. Be prepared to trade some future assets to make the necessary tweaks as you move along. But voiding the cupboard in some frenzied attempt to win RIGHT NOW isn't something I'd do.

Anyway, this team has a number of years to go before the core declines. No need to panic.

You have to remember though, when teams win the Cup, often they did go all in Deadline Day.

The Bruins got Kaberle, Peverley, and Kelly.

Chicago this year got Timmonen, Vermette and Desjardins.

The Kings got Carter and Richards.

That's just in the last few years. It's nice to say and hear "we're building a team that will be competitive every year" but let's face facts, those teams come along once every fifteen years, and for every 2010's Hawks, there's an three or four 2006 Hurricanes.

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Habs30/31    60

One guy we aren't talking about, who might improve the team next year is DE LA Rose. He reminds me a lot of young Pleks. Reliable and smart at 19 years old. Defensively aware and almost always makes the smart play. A modest offensive boost from him of 15 to 20 points could make a big difference. You can win it all with goaltending, defense, and three responsible second line scoring lines. Boston did it. I really think that this is the model that MB will follow. Unless someone breaks out.

Kretchi won the play off scoring race twice. He was runner up for con smythe. That was no "second line scorer" in 011.

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Habs30/31    60

Yes many seems to want to go 'BIG" on dealing, but as soon as I mention will cost a Galchenyuk-Pacioretty-Scherbak-McCarron-Gallagher and god forbid if I mention trade Subban.

All the 'brave' wheelers and dealers get a bit skeptical on going 'all-in' for adding a superstar forward.

OK, want Draistle & Eberle...offer Subban + stuff to Oilers, might get new GM to bite then.

As Oilers blogger mentioned.."Habs have no one they need..except what they wont part with" (#67, 31, 76).

Your right Don. There is no "big deal" MB can make or is gonna make that will turn the habs into a serious contender (or championship team over night. Not a knock on the habs as much as it is a compliment on how deep teams like the hawks are. Add insult injury the hawks will get great return for Sharp ( young prospect,high drafty pick) this summer and improve their team going forward. They are a semi dynasty stanley cup championship team with solid plans to keep their awesome core AND improving the supporting cast. They are not the only team already stronger than our habs WITH a plan of getting better too boot.

Truth be told, after watching the entire four rounds of play offs. I dont think the habs are as close to becoming the championship team as some die hard fans ( god love them ) would have us believe they are.

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DON    27

Being competitive attracts free agents, stops local inhabitants from rioting when team loses 10 in a row and generally more entertaining to watch than 'Leaf-type' seasons.

Also Hawks sucked for decades before finding smart Mgmt and luxury of some all-star top draft picks.

Bruins also sucked for decades as did Kings and were overdue.

And Florida, Oilers, Buffalo may follow suit down the road, if have smart managers.

I guess adding Vanek last year, Smith-Pelly & Petry this year wasn't enough; but, no one really expected Habs to do much more than that at trade deadline...did they?

Bergevin knew they likely didn't have firepower to score enough to win cup and not sure if trading prime assets would of been right move or not?

I am fine they didn't sell farm at deadline, if Subban, Markov and a few forwards could of been more productive they might of gone farther, but no one really stepped it up.

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I think Vermette is a Plekanec doppelganger. Not attempting to sign him would be a mistake. Im sure MB will be in on him. Lets not kid ourselves. Plekanec Vermette Eller Mitchell would be pretty tough to play against. Not ideal. But barring any major trade. Vermette is our best bet at getting over the proverbial hump. Upgrade on Desharnais.

I just watched Scherbak's 2015 highlights. This kid is going to be dynamite.

I'd swap Eller for Vermette on our roster, but not Desharnais. Desharnais actually produces more than what we pay him for. Eller produces NOTHING for what we pay him.

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BCHabnut    163

Kretchi won the play off scoring race twice. He was runner up for con smythe. That was no "second line scorer" in 011.

In the regular season he had 62 points. High end second line numbers. His playoff numbers were 1st line numbers for sure. Montreal has Pacioretty. He is a first liner. I would maintain my argument that Boston built their team around scoring depth having three second lines. Krejci being a mid quality first liner and Bergeron being probably the best second line Centre in the league that year. Look at the line up. Nobody on that team is pushing out a first line player on a cup contender in 2011.

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Habs30/31    60

I'd swap Eller for Vermette on our roster, but not Desharnais. Desharnais actually produces more than what we pay him for. Eller produces NOTHING for what we pay him.

15 goals on the third line with no pp time and grinders for wingers..............name all the other 3rd line centers round the league that scored 15 goals without pp time.

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dlbalr    677

15 goals on the third line with no powerplay and grinders for wingers..............name another 3rd line center that scored 15 with out pp time.

Going off of NHL.com's positional filter - Player/Goals/PP TOI per game/Total TOI per game:

Lars Eller - 15 G - 0:28 PP TOI - 15:29 TOI

Eric Fehr - 19 G - 0:10 PP TOI - 14:51 TOI

Shawn Matthias - 18 G - 0:05 PP TOI - 13:06 TOI

Lance Bouma - 16 G - 0:03 PP TOI - 14:00 TOI

Brian Boyle - 15 G - 0:14 PP TOI - 12:59 TOI

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Habs30/31    60

In the regular season he had 62 points. High end second line numbers. His playoff numbers were 1st line numbers for sure. Montreal has Pacioretty. He is a first liner. I would maintain my argument that Boston built their team around scoring depth having three second lines. Krejci being a mid quality first liner and Bergeron being probably the best second line Centre in the league that year. Look at the line up. Nobody on that team is pushing out a first line player on a cup contender in 2011.

True enough.

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