ICEWATER77 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 The difference is that the 2009 Habs weren't even close to the 2015 Habs. When a team goes from the penthouse to the shithouse, something surely is amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 What do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 The difference is that the 2009 Habs weren't even close to the 2015 Habs. When a team goes from the penthouse to the shithouse, something surely is amiss. No one is arguing they are playing well. We are just arguing that this team isn't showing signs of quitting on a coach. A team that quits would get run over. This team is competitive every night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 A)Just because we've outshot some teams in Dec, it doesn't mean that we've outchanced them. NHL teams are GIVING us the outside, knowing we won't beat them from there. B) I think there's more to this prolonged slump than we know. And besides, aren't slumps more like 4-6 games? C)Sure it's easy to blame the injuries, but we're really only missing two players of any significance, right? What about the players that are actually IN the game? D) Dare I say we may need an enforcer/Top 6 Defenseman to give the guys a bit of courage? I think Markov needs to go, sorry folks E) I kind of expect MVPrice to be sick to his stomach watching this farce, and come back too early..again! We'll then enter the Austen Matthews Sweepstakes(which isn't that bad of an idea). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 You want to see A team playing to get a coach fired... go back and watch Carbo's western road trip in 2009... .Down 4 or 5 goals by the middle of the second period every game. This is not what is happening here. And when Gainey figured out it wasn't the coach cause they did not play for him either, he fired most of the team. Yes Koivu led the revolt but he was gone as fast as Carbo when the time came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 The Panthers look to be the next team to lap the Habs tonight. At one point, they were leading the Blue Jackets 19-1 in shots. The Habs might be in trouble when they enter the madhouse that is the BB and T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 A)Just because we've outshot some teams in Dec, it doesn't mean that we've outchanced them. NHL teams are GIVING us the outside, knowing we won't beat them from there. B) I think there's more to this prolonged slump than we know. And besides, aren't slumps more like 4-6 games? C)Sure it's easy to blame the injuries, but we're really only missing two players of any significance, right? What about the players that are actually IN the game? D) Dare I say we may need an enforcer/Top 6 Defenseman to give the guys a bit of courage? I think Markov needs to go, sorry folks E) I kind of expect MVPrice to be sick to his stomach watching this farce, and come back too early..again! We'll then enter the Austen Matthews Sweepstakes(which isn't that bad of an idea). a) thats simply not true... prior to the washington game the Habs were 4th in the entire nHL in shots from the slot over the last ten games. So you can keep repeating that we only shoot from the perimeter, but people who track these things, for all NHL teams don't have us shooting from the outside more than other teams, in fact its the opposite. b) who is to say slumps are 4-6 games? where did this number come from? c) I agree that there is more going on than just injuries... d) LOL, an enforcer for courage? a guy playing 2:00 a game and fighting other teams goons doesn't give the rest of the team courage. There is a reason why the number of these players in the league is massively down, because GMs are re-thinking the old school shit that this stuff works. It doesn't.. We've tried it before with Laraque and we tried it with George Parros. Both were massive, massive wastes of time. d2) why does markov have to go exactly and what does this have to do with finding an enforcer? e) thats a massive bit of speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 D) an enforcer/6th DMAN <-- sorry if you didn't understand that. Badass top 6 dmen don't play 2 mins per game. And imo, I'd give up Markovs spot for said badass. A) in the past 10 + games, I haven't seen this slot presence you speak of. I see cowardly, soft play, from our forwards who constantly lose battles along the boards. There's no wonder why our shooting % has become so miniscule. We're taking a ton of easy shots. Ok Commandant, how do you explain the disappearing acts of all 4 of our leaders in Dec? Maybe you can find another researcher to figure their whereabouts? Max in particular..A captain doesn't pull a Houdini and disappear when the going gets rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 D) an enforcer/6th DMAN <-- sorry if you didn't understand that. Badass top 6 dmen don't play 2 mins per game. And imo, I'd give up Markovs spot for said badass. A) in the past 10 + games, I haven't seen this slot presence you speak of. I see cowardly, soft play, from our forwards who constantly lose battles along the boards. There's no wonder why our shooting % has become so miniscule. We're taking a ton of easy shots. Ok Commandant, how do you explain the disappearing acts of all 4 of our leaders in Dec? Maybe you can find another researcher to figure their whereabouts? Max in particular..A captain doesn't pull a Houdini and disappear when the going gets rough. A) just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean its there. Its confirmation bias (And don't feel like I'm insulting you here, cause I'm not this is something all humans can fall victim too). You believe, that a lack of shots from good areas will lead to a lack of goals (and rightly so, cause in general thats true). So the Habs not scoring goals makes us assume that they aren't getting enough shots from good areas. The stats which don't suffer from confirmation bias show that this isn't ture. You assume that our shooting percentage is low because we are taking bad shots. The stats don't support that theory. The theory they support is that sometimes a team can take a lot of good shots and not score. Its rare, but we've seen it happen before to other teams. D) Who is this bad ass defenceman? You've got two options here... Another Douglas Murray who all he does is hits and can't move the puck and is easy to acquire.... or A guy who gives the hitting aspect, but also moves the puck, and can be valuable in more than one dimension of the game... this player is difficult to acquire, and difficult to fit under the salary cap. So here is the dilemna... you can have the one dimensional badass, but that player has been proven time and time again to actually be a liability and not an asset. Guys who hit and fight but have no skill aren't people you want on your blueline playing 15+ minutes a night. Guys who hit and fight and have the skill to play 20 minutes a night... teams aren't trading them for cheap, and their agents aren't signing cheap contracts. So maybe in theory it would be great to have a dustin byfuglien, but what are you giving up for him, and what kind of contract are we giving him to ensure he just isn't another rental? Or maybe its someone else of who you speak, again what are we giving up, and what is the contract for such a dman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 That's cool, I don't feel that you're insulting me. We're having a discussion, and differing opinions are what this forum is about. We can agree to disagree, no problem. Now. as far as a Dustin Byfuglien goes, no way we could afford him. It would be nice, but we'd have to move PK, and that isn't happening for some time. Surely there must be a "poor-man's" Byfuglien somewhere that can fit in our system and be acquired reasonably? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 That's cool, I don't feel that you're insulting me. We're having a discussion, and differing opinions are what this forum is about. We can agree to disagree, no problem. Now. as far as a Dustin Byfuglien goes, no way we could afford him. It would be nice, but we'd have to move PK, and that isn't happening for some time. Surely there must be a "poor-man's" Byfuglien somewhere that can fit in our system and be acquired reasonably? I don't know who this "poor man's byfuglien" would be. Thats my point. Finding a guy with a combination of toughness to be called a "badass", and enough skill be able to play 15-20 minutes without being a liability is tough. What we see more and more of are guys who have that toughness also lacking skill and being big liabiliites... or if they have that skill, are so rare that teams don't give them up without an overpay. If you have a suggestion, I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Like I keep saying, our fundamental problem (apart from unreliable goaltending) over the past few games has been erratic defensive coverage. Unlike the other flaws fans are decrying ('too many perimeter players!' 'Not enough talented forwards!' 'No big intimidator!') this one is actually fixable. In terms of whether they've quit on Therrien, I would be tempted to suggest that if they don't start buckling down defensively, it will raise a legitimate coaching issue. A coach who can't get his team NOT to bumble around in its own end is a coach who is looking death in the face. This is not a prediction that MT will get canned, nor is it a call for that. MB will certainly not even consider it until well after Gallagher gets back, and probably Price. But the current defensive-zone play is unacceptable, and the longer it continues, the more Therrien has to wear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 With respect to your 1st point. It's not just where the shots are taken that matter. The actual quality of the shots matter as well. Even when we are getting shots in from close, a lot of them are pretty crappy shots. That's one of the dangers of just going by the stats. Quantitative measures alone don't explains our performance, you also need to consider qualitative factors. Early in the year we scored a lot of goals that an NHL hour should never let in - now they are stopping them. Hell, not one of Weisse's hat trick goals on Calgary should have gone in against an AHL goalie - let alone an NHL goalie. Now Weisse has been missing wide open nets that any AHL player would tap in. Not picking on Weisse- he's a dewar 4th liner and a passable 3rd liner at times, but I hate the way he has been over used. We need finishers. It pisses me off to no end when we bring a guy like Hudon up and have him play on the friggin fourth line, while weisse keeps playing on the PP. 100% agree with your last points regarding enforcers. I hated the Laraque, Parros and Murrey signings. Those were bruins type of moves and I hated them at the time. We don't need fighting to police the game, we need the friggin refs to call what's in the book and have tougher suspensions for stick work and hits from behind. Suspend a guy 15 games and fine the coach for a first infraction, instead of a bullshit 1 or 2 game suspension and you won't have the raffi Torres type players have to get suspended 5 or 6 times before they get a meanfingul suspension. a) thats simply not true... prior to the washington game the Habs were 4th in the entire nHL in shots from the slot over the last ten games. So you can keep repeating that we only shoot from the perimeter, but people who track these things, for all NHL teams don't have us shooting from the outside more than other teams, in fact its the opposite. b) who is to say slumps are 4-6 games? where did this number come from? c) I agree that there is more going on than just injuries... d) LOL, an enforcer for courage? a guy playing 2:00 a game and fighting other teams goons doesn't give the rest of the team courage. There is a reason why the number of these players in the league is massively down, because GMs are re-thinking the old school shit that this stuff works. It doesn't.. We've tried it before with Laraque and we tried it with George Parros. Both were massive, massive wastes of time. d2) why does markov have to go exactly and what does this have to do with finding an enforcer? e) thats a massive bit of speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 100% agree about the defence. I don't get the comments of us having a A+ defence when Subban has been playing like crap (by his standards), Markov has looked washed up since game 12 or 13, Perry looks like the bad oilers Petry and we have emelin and Gilbert in the lineup. Gilbert and emelin are giveaway machines. The former is softer than a marshmallow, while the latter is a pylon. Both have less hockey sense than a pee wee player. Like I keep saying, our fundamental problem (apart from unreliable goaltending) over the past few games has been erratic defensive coverage. Unlike the other flaws fans are decrying ('too many perimeter players!' 'Not enough talented forwards!' 'No big intimidator!') this one is actually fixable. In terms of whether they've quit on Therrien, I would be tempted to suggest that if they don't start buckling down defensively, it will raise a legitimate coaching issue. A coach who can't get his team NOT to bumble around in its own end is a coach who is looking death in the face. This is not a prediction that MT will get canned, nor is it a call for that. MB will certainly not even consider it until well after Gallagher gets back, and probably Price. But the current defensive-zone play is unacceptable, and the longer it continues, the more Therrien has to wear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 100% agree about the defence. I don't get the comments of us having a A+ defence when Subban has been playing like crap (by his standards), Markov has looked washed up since game 12 or 13, Perry looks like the bad oilers Petry and we have emelin and Gilbert in the lineup. Gilbert and emelin are giveaway machines. The former is softer than a marshmallow, while the latter is a pylon. Both have less hockey sense than a pee wee player. I agree with everything except for the part where Subban has been playing like crap. He's underperformed to his standards, but definitely hasn't been crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Toe when your #1 dman can't hit the net in the PP, and as a leader is lazy in getting back to his own zone and overall making a lot if poor decisions, he is playing like crap. He is my favorite player on the team and my favorite Hab over the past 25 years, but IMO, he's played like crap, given his talent level. I agree with everything except for the part where Subban has been playing like crap. He's underperformed to his standards, but definitely hasn't been crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Gilbert has been good for a #6 guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 You also cant just say it os guys with a lack of talent taking the in close shots. Sure they arent big time goal scorers... but their career records indicate they should be scoring at more than double the rate they have been. Our team is getting close in shots and scoring at like 3.5% of their overall shots. Thats well below the career shooting percentage of every forward on the team including less skilled guys like flynn, weise, byron etc... its just not normal. Yeah another sniper will help. But even then it's gonna happen that these guys will get back to career norms soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 You can also argue that he start by Weisse was against his career norms and now he is back to being the player he has been his whole career. Pleks and Maxpac have also been streaky their whole career. They are in their low cycle now and will probably turn it around soon. Subban should also been scoring more, but he isn't going to score if he can't hit the damn net and get his shot off faster. It may have been because of his new sticks. Or simply being to cute. Other than these three and galleghar and Galchenyuk we don't have a proven goal scorer, a bona fuse 3rd liner in Eller and a bunch of career 4th liners. You also cant just say it os guys with a lack of talent taking the in close shots. Sure they arent big time goal scorers... but their career records indicate they should be scoring at more than double the rate they have been. Our team is getting close in shots and scoring at like 3.5% of their overall shots. Thats well below the career shooting percentage of every forward on the team including less skilled guys like flynn, weise, byron etc... its just not normal. Yeah another sniper will help. But even then it's gonna happen that these guys will get back to career norms soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 There has been a lot of factors, and most of the complaints by us fans about players performance can be argued each way. I think a lot of the problem has been a lack of confidence as this bad stretch grows, and a really tough schedule coincided with Price going on the shelf again. I do believe however that Icewater's point about perimeter players, playing like they don't want to engage physically, this in our game plan, and leadership core is the main problem. Teams know that if you hit the Habs, you slow them down, when slowed down, we can't win those battles. With all the talk of Tinordi getting traded, I hope it's as a part for some scoring and or physical help up front, because that young fella has 2x the game that Emelin has, and brings more than Emelin does. It's a mistake to not let him get used to handling the puck, Emelin has tons of chances, and still can't clear the zone, can't skate, and can't fight, Tinordi is only weak at handling the puck, and some games would help in that matter. Gilbert is a great defenseman in the Habs type of game play, and realistically, he hasn't given the puck away more than our top 4... Gilbert is not the problem. The soft as sh!t forward core is the biggest problem the Habs currently own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 http://www.theplayerstribune.com/evgeny-kuznetsov-capitals-russia-hockey Pretty funny. Good read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 http://www.theplayerstribune.com/evgeny-kuznetsov-capitals-russia-hockey Pretty funny. Good read Thank you for sharing. Just discovered a real nice website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 Brad Marchand won't play on Friday afternoon against the Habs. He has received a three game suspension for clipping Ottawa's Mark Borowiecki last night. Apparently, it was his first game wearing the 'A' for Boston. The Bruins will also be without David Krejci for that game as he's out week-to-week. Conveniently, Marchand's first game back happens to be against Ottawa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Brad Marchand won't play on Friday afternoon against the Habs. He has received a three game suspension for clipping Ottawa's Mark Borowiecki last night. The Bruins will also be without David Krejci for that game as he's out week-to-week. Conveniently, Marchand's first game back happens to be against Ottawa. He's a dirty rat, even the look on his face is lecherous at the best of times. I can't remember a more vile non-goon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Ulf Samulsson, Claude Lemieux, Max LaPierre come to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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