Guest Stogey24 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 It's crazy how good Markov made komisarek look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Markov was great in his day, it is too bad he is done now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 It's crazy how good Markov made komisarek look On the 100th season, TSN did a starting lineup of the best Habs for every position and had Mike Komisarek as the best right positioned defenceman in the history of the Montreal Canadiens. I never forgot that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Subban has a Norris Trophy. The number of players eligible for the Hall of Fame, who have a Norris Trophy and haven't gotten in is like 2. In the last 40 years, its basically one guy, Randy Carlyle. Add in the fact he has a second Norris nomination, and Subban getting in the Hall of Fame isn't a bad bet. I actually don't personally see Weber and think HOF. He does have another 10 years to solidify belonging there though and I'm not attempting to say that in a sardonic way.What better time to win a Norris than now? If I really think about it, Subban and Weber are pretty much equal in my mind when thinking about who would deserve to be in the HOF. It's just too early for either of them and right now, neither of them deserve it unless international play is taken into consideration, then there's a debate to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Nobody has to stay at home. Both are quick enough to get back into their own zone after losing puck possession. That was the fallacy with Markov-Komisarek. If Komisarek lost the puck (as he often did), Markov could skate well enough to get back. If Markov lost the puck, it wasn't Komisarek recovering it. It was Markov. Same happened with Gorges - Subban. Gorges just got back to the zone to fall on the ice and block a shot. Subban got back and tried to retrieve the puck. I actually don't think it's a smart move putting those two together. On the PP absolutely but I think it's better to put them on two separate lines guaranteeing you two solid PMD for each line that can make things happen. Who they will be paired with I'm not sure if though. What does worry me though is the fact that their D core just got pretty soft. None of their guys are heavy hitting tough guys and in a division that they are in with big banging guys that might be scary but who knows its just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Lidstrom didn't win a Norris until he was 30 and went on to win 7 of them. Lots of hockey left for Shea Weber to define his career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Lidstrom didn't win a Norris until he was 30 and went on to win 7 of them. Lots of hockey left for Shea Weber to define his career Yeah... Weber has never been as good as Lidstrom. Ever. At no point in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Yeah... Weber has never been as good as Lidstrom. Ever. At no point in his career. That wasn't really his point though... Was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 That wasn't really his point though... Was it? It's a fallacy comparison. You can't say hey, Weber will play for many years to come because Lidstrom did. In that case, You're arguing for Weber to be the anomaly, which Lidstrom was. I guess anyone can play as long as Gordie Howe but chose not to? Can Weber play for many more years? Sure. Markov is. Campbell is. Scott Stevens played until he was 40 and never won a Norris. But to compare Shea Weber to Scott Stevens is saying Shea Weber is as good as Scott Stevens was. Just because a few players played until they were 40 doesn't mean all will. And the big difference between a Stevens and a Lidstrom to a Weber is that we're already seeing some depreciation from Weber and we didn't really see it from those players until they hit 35. And even then, Lidstrom retired with the ability to still be a top pairing defenceman. Anyway, the end of Weber's career will be interesting because Montreal can't buy him out and Nashville has to hope he never retires. Once he starts depreciating, he'll probably get traded to a floor team that needs to make it there. I don't see Weber falling from a top pairing D until he's around 35, but I have my doubts on him keeping up to the NHL's speed by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) He never compared Weber to Lidstrom, he said it's possible for him to get better after 30 and possibly win a Norris. Personally I would compare Weber more to a Pronger who I'm sure you know played the best hockey of his career between the ages of 30-35 before injuries caught up with him. I agree with most if the bottom part but I'm not really seeing his speed being a problem, there are clips of him skating fairly well for a guy his size. I'm not saying he's a speedster but he's not slow by any means Edited July 31, 2016 by Scott462 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I agree with most if the bottom part but I'm not really seeing his speed being a problem, there are clips of him skating fairly well for a guy his size. I'm not saying he's a speedster but he's not slow by any means Right now? He's fine. He won't have the same skating issues that Markov has from time to time. If it sounds like I'm saying he's Douglass Murray or something I'm not. But if you're an 8/10 skater and you get older, you're gonna become a 7/10 skater. And then a 6/10 skater. And so on. Weber is already at the point where he's gonna be a 7/10 skater soon. And the slower he gets, while the faster the game gets (it's no coincidence that the best teenager in the world is one of the fastest skaters in the world in Connor McDavid), it just chips away at his ability to be an elite defender. The game is becoming less about blocking shots and hitting your opponents in the corner to retrieving the puck and getting out of your zone. And that doesn't bode well for Weber down the road. It's 100% possible that Weber's skating stays high level and he's still able to skate with 21 year-olds when he's 35, but with the expectations he'll have in Montreal to be big, strong, nasty, and unmerciful against Toronto, Boston, Ottawa, etc., do you think that's likely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Oh I totally agree with the fact that he might become a bit slower as he ages but he does have good positioning which I think will help him to still be affective as the years go by. Chara was able to do it, maybe Weber can too. You also have to take into account that Weber is a gym rat, solid work ethic and he's always in shape without any injuries of note? Overall I agree with what you are saying and speedy teams are the thing of the future until another big bodied checking team wins the cup again and everything gets reversed. That's the way she goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 If Webers game declines to fast I hope he retires so the preds get a nasty caphit and cant afford to keep PK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvvrob Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 If Webers game declines to fast I hope he retires so the preds get a nasty caphit and cant afford to keep PK. Exactly And if he declines badly you can bet Habs fans will be encouraging his retirement every single home game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Yes, that's a hell of trade, where everything hinges on how quickly the asset you got back will deteriorate - having given up a stud just entering his prime in order to get said asset. Yippee!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Yes, that's a hell of trade, where everything hinges on how quickly the asset you got back will deteriorate - having given up a stud just entering his prime in order to get said asset. Yippee!!! I said if his game declines to fast. Not that thats what the trade is about... Habsworld today is appearently all about spreading as much negative energy about the team as possible no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 I said if his game declines to fast. Not that thats what the trade is about... Habsworld today is appearently all about spreading as much negative energy about the team as possible no matter what. But you do understand how this is a real discussion point about Weber and would not be one for Subban right? Nobody in hockey is worried about Subban's speed in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Yeah... Weber has never been as good as Lidstrom. Ever. At no point in his career. And he didn't say he was? Would Rob Blake be better comparable maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 You mean the Norris trophy and cup winning Rob Blake who could actually lead a rush? And he didn't say he was? Would Rob Blake be better comparable maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 You mean the Norris trophy and cup winning Rob Blake who could actually lead a rush? No, the actor of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehjay Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 No, the actor of course. I'm with habs29 SW come nowhere near Blake, and he is too tall for the actor but I will give you that Weber can be a beast of his own and waiting to see it in a Habs jersey is killing something inside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ethan Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Sergachev is miles ahead of where either Subban or Weber was at 18. His selection certainly factored into the trade, as I think management sees Weber as a much better mentor/defense partner to Mikhail in coming years. Quite possibly even this upcoming year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Interesting article, apparently PK ripped Molson Le Genius ad MB pretty good at is comedy show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Sergachev is miles ahead of where either Subban or Weber was at 18. His selection certainly factored into the trade, as I think management sees Weber as a much better mentor/defense partner to Mikhail in coming years. Quite possibly even this upcoming year. I'd say Subban had as much talent at 18. Sergachev seems more polished though, perhaps bringing a more level headed game for his age. Subban was all energy (still is mostly). And even if Weber is a better mentor, I still don't think it justifies trading Subban straight up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 And even if Weber is a better mentor, I still don't think it justifies trading Subban straight up. Don't really understand what makes Weber a better mentor. Especially since the kid is Russian and he'll more likely get mentored in his first year by the guy who mentored Subban: Andrei Markov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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