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Subban traded to Nashville


dlbalr

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Likely most Habs would be a better mentor than Subban, but Weber seems to have respect throughout the NHL, Subban does not and is not known as a team first guy neither.

Seems pretty simple case there and yes Markov likely will also help Sergachev as he, Gill, Gorges 'tried' to do with Subban.

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Seems that Galchenyuk benefitted from his talks with Subban. Not sure where you go get this "subban is not a team guy" crap from.

He defiantly isn't a dumb and dumber guy (thankfully).

Likely most Habs would be a better mentor than Subban, but Weber seems to have respect throughout the NHL, Subban does not and is not known as a team first guy neither.

Seems pretty simple case there and yes Markov likely will also help Sergachev as he, Gill, Gorges 'tried' to do with Subban.

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Seems that Galchenyuk benefitted from his talks with Subban. Not sure where you go get this "subban is not a team guy" crap from.

He defiantly isn't a dumb and dumber guy (thankfully).

No not Dumb and Dumber, more like Me, myself and I guy.

(and I agree, thankfully he is gonzo and no more soap opera)

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No not Dumb and Dumber, more like Me, myself and I guy.

(and I agree, thankfully he is gonzo and no more soap opera)

I don't remember you saying anything like that when he was on the team. Are you that pro-management that when they do something, you have to fall all over yourself rationalizing every move?

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Don't really understand what makes Weber a better mentor. Especially since the kid is Russian and he'll more likely get mentored in his first year by the guy who mentored Subban: Andrei Markov.

I didn't say he was, I said even IF. And then even IF he was it doesn't justify the trade

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Likely most Habs would be a better mentor than Subban, but Weber seems to have respect throughout the NHL, Subban does not and is not known as a team first guy neither.

Seems pretty simple case there and yes Markov likely will also help Sergachev as he, Gill, Gorges 'tried' to do with Subban.

Don't you remember what Gill said about Subban? You don't change PK. I hope Subban and everything he represents is whole-heartedly embraced in Nashville because what the NHL NEEDS is more PK Subban. He's electric charismatic, entertaining, generous, and he'll back up everything he does off the ice with superb play.

Why does anyone ever want to change PK?

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Gill is smart and knew Subban wouldn't ever change, maybe he meant that when you are that full of yourself, you just don't listen to coaches? :blush:

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Or maybe subban knew what most of the league knows, that the habs have a moron for a coach.

Gill is smart and knew Subban wouldn't ever change, maybe he meant that when you are that full of yourself, you just don't listen to coaches? :blush:

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Don't really understand what makes Weber a better mentor. Especially since the kid is Russian and he'll more likely get mentored in his first year by the guy who mentored Subban: Andrei Markov.

I think it has a lot to do with how he mentored Josi. Weber really did have a lot to do with Josi's development as a player, while playing next to him.

Add in the fact that Josi has pretty bad numbers when away from Weber and oddly enough Webers numbers got worse when he started playing with Josi and Gaustad obviously.

I think Josi is going to miss playing next to Weber IMHO.

I agree that it could be Markov that mentors him more but if the kid hits the top line it will be probably be Weber giving him the pointers

Edited by Scott462
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Did Josi fall off playing without Weber? A little in 2015-16, yes... (however in 2014-15 he was a little better without Weber). Both of these are such small sample sizes (less than 200 minutes) that I wouldn't read too much into either result.

Weber was worse without Josi as well.

Seems that Weber and Josi both play better when together and both play worse when apart. That shouldn't be strange. As many of us, even on the pro-subban side, have said many times Weber is still a very good defenceman.

The only issue is that Subban is better than very good. He's been great.

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Fair enough.

I really don't find it an issue though I think Weber is an elite D man just like Subban is, they are just different and have different skills. If you want to argue Subbans skills are better that's fair but I don't have to agree with them.

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Sergachev actually had slightly better offensive numbers in relation to team production coming into the draft. He was much sounder defensively than Subby at the same age. The fact that he was the Kaminsky Trophy winner as well as top vote getter on the All Star team (selected by league G.M.s) speaks volumes. In his first season in the league, first season in N.A. and first season playing on smaller ice with different style. Plus he was 4" taller and 25 pounds heavier, along with being a bit younger. It's a bit scary to think where Sergachev could end up, but in terms of defense partners, I think it's a perfect match with Weber who will be the stay at home guy as he gets older, while Sergachev will be given more and more puck carrying responsibility.

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Sergachev actually had slightly better offensive numbers in relation to team production coming into the draft. He was much sounder defensively than Subby at the same age. The fact that he was the Kaminsky Trophy winner as well as top vote getter on the All Star team (selected by league G.M.s) speaks volumes. In his first season in the league, first season in N.A. and first season playing on smaller ice with different style. Plus he was 4" taller and 25 pounds heavier, along with being a bit younger. It's a bit scary to think where Sergachev could end up, but in terms of defense partners, I think it's a perfect match with Weber who will be the stay at home guy as he gets older, while Sergachev will be given more and more puck carrying responsibility.

Everything he's done points to a very very bright future that's for sure. He actually posted 1 ppg in his last 50 games.

But just terms of pure skill I don't know, Subban has always oozed it. Sergachev might just have it all together better for his age.

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Sergachev actually had slightly better offensive numbers in relation to team production coming into the draft. He was much sounder defensively than Subby at the same age. The fact that he was the Kaminsky Trophy winner as well as top vote getter on the All Star team (selected by league G.M.s) speaks volumes. In his first season in the league, first season in N.A. and first season playing on smaller ice with different style. Plus he was 4" taller and 25 pounds heavier, along with being a bit younger. It's a bit scary to think where Sergachev could end up, but in terms of defense partners, I think it's a perfect match with Weber who will be the stay at home guy as he gets older, while Sergachev will be given more and more puck carrying responsibility.

There are a ton of defencemen who are better than PK subban on the day he was drafted. At age 17, Subban was a good (but not great) offensive dman, but a complete mess defensively.

Subban had an off-the chart development curve though after being drafted. The year after he was drafted he was sensational. At 19 he was even better and one of the best players in the OHL. His first year in Hamilton, he was an elite AHL defenceman as a rookie. Then he came into the NHL, and got better and better each year.

So its great and all that Sergachev is ahead. But with respect to Sergachev vs Subban at the same age, it doesn't mean that much because the development curve Subban took was exceptionally rare.

That said, I still think Sergachev is the best defenceman in the 2016 draft, so I do agree that he has all the potential in the world. If by some miracle he took a similar exponential development curve to subban he wouldn't just be the best defenceman in the NHL, he'd be an all-time top 5 defenceman. That's the kind of exponential growth Subban took (And the fact that sergachev is starting at a much higher level at 18).

I'd just like to see the team not rush him, and give him time to be a true #1 defender in time.

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Or maybe subban knew what most of the league knows, that the habs have a moron for a coach.

It wasn't Therrien grabbing him after a shift or in the locker room to offer 'advice'; it was Markov & Gill doing that. And Subban already has had Guy Bouche and Martin as pro coaches as well, but maybe they are both Morons also. And obviously he still is on his own program and thus has been on/off the market for a long while before they finally traded up.

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And where is WEBER MENTIONED..in the top 8 left and right D? Hmmmmm

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/franchise-faceoff-who-s-your-no-1-right-defenceman~923533

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And where is WEBER MENTIONED..in the top 8 left and right D? Hmmmmm

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/franchise-faceoff-who-s-your-no-1-right-defenceman~923533

Don't worry Dude, I found him for you!

Named to Team Canada are:

G Corey Crawford, Chicago Blackhawks

G Braden Holtby, Washington Capitals

G Carey Price, Montreal Canadiens

D Brent Burns, San Jose Sharks *

D Drew Doughty, Los Angeles Kings

D Duncan Keith, Chicago Blackhawks

D Jake Muzzin, Los Angeles Kings *

D Alex Pietrangelo St. Louis Blues *

D Marc-Edouard Vlasic, San Jose Sharks

D Shea Weber, Nashville Predators

(and FYI no asterisk next to his name​ means he was one of the 1st four d-men named to team)

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Maybe one day P.K will be as good as Weber. Right DON

Where did that come from?

Maybe; but, we shall see if P.K. ever is, although as a HabsFan it is a quite irrelevant now.

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Don't worry Dude, I found him for you!

Named to Team Canada are:

G Corey Crawford, Chicago Blackhawks

G Braden Holtby, Washington Capitals

G Carey Price, Montreal Canadiens

D Brent Burns, San Jose Sharks *

D Drew Doughty, Los Angeles Kings

D Duncan Keith, Chicago Blackhawks

D Jake Muzzin, Los Angeles Kings *

D Alex Pietrangelo St. Louis Blues *

D Marc-Edouard Vlasic, San Jose Sharks

D Shea Weber, Nashville Predators

(and FYI no asterisk next to his name​ means he was one of the 1st four d-men named to team)

Dude Don..

I was referring simply to the Franchise D segment on TSN..

I can get you many lists also of teams showing overlooked players in past..would you have traded Crosby when he was omitted for one of the team Canada additions?

Come on DON..wow..I have been on this forum since 2007..you are a relative newbie and will simply take this with a grain of salt.

Point is clear we are both Habs fans..regardless..

We don't agree on the trade which is fine. You have the right to your opinion as I do mine..but please stay with topic from what I stated. Even at that it's subjective.

I have a hard time wondering how the teams overall strategy will change now, Do MT and MB have the knowhow to do it? some see them being very reactive instead of proactive.

It really does tick me off that the very organization that MB refers to as a guide goes out and takes him to the cleaners on the SHAW trade.. They add 2 high picks relatively.. We give up 2.. Plus we overpay the player..wow

Goes out and loses 4 years of age on a D ..all thing's equal..where the Hawks are going the other way.

I am talking big picture here...

SIMPLE..this trade will come back to haunt the team..many times over..simple

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I don't know how many times Commandant has to demonstrate Team Canada's track record of dubious choices before people stop trotting out this lame-ass argument. Two words for you: Adam Foote. :rolleyes:

It's sad, really, how weak the pro-Weber arguments are. They rest on nebulous claims about "the room" (easily refuted by showing the room to have been just fine until Price went down and losing became chronic) and the supposedly supreme wisdom of the Old Boys choosing Team Canada. Meanwhile, all the statistical evidence, age and contract, playoff history, the eye-test, and the overwhelming majority of commentators both amateur and professional on The Trade agree that Montreal fell on its face. But if we desperately want management to be right, then I suppose we have to cling to whatever scraps of evidence we can find.

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Guest Stogey24

In an interview with couture, he was asked who the toughest D-men to play against are. He mentioned Subban, but no Weber.

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