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Subban traded to Nashville


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Interesting how Friedman said that he spoke to a habs player late last season after a game and the player said the GM and coach thought the team was soft both mentally and physically... Said team knew change was coming.... If you play sports it's amazing how one attitude one character can change the attitude of a whole team. I'm talking about how the presence of say Weber can make a whole line or at least beaulueu feel 3 inches taller for example

It's so weird though, I get that Weber has a different game but I feel like Subban should instil confidence too.

I also cringed when I saw Bergevin might have traded for Weber cause he didn't like his defense carrying up the puck. Subban is the better first pass guy too Mark..

There was really a sense of holding back PK and changing his game in that article. I feel like Poile is about to unleash him.

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72 pages of debate in this thread alone plus the countless times it cropped up in others, and it all ends up with Nashville sending him away in a cap dump. We can now officially put this baby to bed.

F**K YOU MARC BERGEVIN.

He did not "get dumped because he is a liability to his team".  That's not true. He got dumped because his GM has mismanaged the cap and no one will take players who suck like Nick Bonino or kyle T

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It's so weird though, I get that Weber has a different game but I feel like Subban should instil confidence too.

I also cringed when I saw Bergevin might have traded for Weber cause he didn't like his defense carrying up the puck. Subban is the better first pass guy too Mark..

There was really a sense of holding back PK and changing his game in that article (Friedman I think?). I feel like Poile is about to unleash him.

When Subban actually did play 'unrestrained', it didn't turn out so well. So, while I know many think he will continue to improve until he is Orr-like at some point in the future; we shall see this season if he does continue to improve and whether all the bluster about 'being held back' actually has any truth in it.

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i just dont think josi and him are going to play as well together as people think. i can see them being split quite earlier actually to take advantage of both of their puck moving abilities.

How much more unleashing/ holding back can pk have? He carried the puck pretty much each rush... and he is not fast enough to go end to end and get back in time like karlsonn can so what does everyone expect is going to happen in nashville? art ross for PK?

Therrien rode him all season in all situations.... im pretty sure he was un-leashed with of course the added "please be responsible out there as well, you know you are a defender first! play da right way!"

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WHATDAYA MEAN.. PK SUBBAN WAS TRADED!?!?!?! WHEN!!! WTHHFFPFMFS!!!

And I heard it said that it was for a soon to be washed up d-man, not a elite sniper. Not sure anyone saw that coming.

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What I still find bizarre is the idea that we needed to get mentally and physically tougher, so we had to trade away one of the most mentally tough guys on the team, and a guy who was built like a fireplug, extremely robust and hard to injure, to boot. :bonk:It's similar to the argument that we had to make the trade because we needed to boost goal-scoring - as if doing that somehow required that we trade away Subban, rather than, say, add a scoring FW.

Inept GMing 101.

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What I still find bizarre is the idea that we needed to get mentally and physically tougher, so we had to trade away one of the most mentally tough guys on the team, and a guy who was built like a fireplug, extremely robust and hard to injure, to boot. :bonk:It's similar to the argument that we had to make the trade because we needed to boost goal-scoring - as if doing that somehow required that we trade away Subban, rather than, say, add a scoring FW.

Inept GMing 101.

Yes, it mental toughness was the problem Subban was not the guy to go! (Eller always struck me as psychologically fragile).

Weber helps of course. I won't undermine what I think he's gonna bring.

I can also see a Subban-Josi pairing not being the lasting pair, but not because it won't be a top 3 pairing in in hockey, but because staggering Subban and Josi would give the Preds one of the best top 4 in the league. I understand the logic about them not complementing each other though. Could happen.

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More doom and gloom I see, don't worry guys you are going to be happy with Weber. He is used to carrying the load in Nashville playing the toughest minutes out of every D man there.

He will be fine on and off the ice

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What I still find bizarre is the idea that we needed to get mentally and physically tougher, so we had to trade away one of the most mentally tough guys on the team, and a guy who was built like a fireplug, extremely robust and hard to injure, to boot. :bonk:It's similar to the argument that we had to make the trade because we needed to boost goal-scoring - as if doing that somehow required that we trade away Subban, rather than, say, add a scoring FW.

Inept GMing 101.

Mentally tough? Subban? Your talking about Capt. Embellisher and #1 tantrum thrower. Frankie Boullion was a gym rat and stocky also, what doe that have to do with anything? He was a match for Marchand...but about all he could handle.

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1241961-shea-weber-michel-therrien.jpg

Have you ever seen a smile so big? Looks like a kid at Christmas

Yup... getting a low maintenance elite, team first d-man can make any coach quite giddy. :clap:

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Elliotte Friedman: "I think the other thing is too is, Marc Bergevin – and I’ve asked him about this before – he doesn’t like his defensemen to carry the puck up as much. He thinks if defensemen carry the puck up, the game slows down for your team because the forwards have to wait there."

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nichol...ring-decision/

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That's actually an hilarious picture. I don't think I have ever seen Therrien smile like that. It seems like everyone had a great time at the golf tournament.

Shea is just as cool as a cucumber

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Succinctly put. And entirely correct.

I wish I could find the post (I tried to look for it) but a couple months ago I was saying how Nashville's window to trade Shea Weber would be now before his value started dropping. That his contract was a ticking timebomb and they could probably convince a team to pay a king's ransom for him. With Josi, Ekholm, and Ellis it would be a great time to unload him and boost their squad. I think I said something similar before they traded Seth Jones as well.

My problem with the trade is 95% Marc Bergevin and 5% the fact I said Nashville would be smart to unload him and they did. To Montreal. Subban is one of my favourite players so of course it's hard to see him go but this is mostly about Bergevin... and the fact the guy they got is the guy I said was a ticking timebomb.

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I wish I could find the post (I tried to look for it) but a couple months ago I was saying how Nashville's window to trade Shea Weber would be now before his value started dropping. That his contract was a ticking timebomb and they could probably convince a team to pay a king's ransom for him. With Josi, Ekholm, and Ellis it would be a great time to unload him and boost their squad. I think I said something similar before they traded Seth Jones as well.

My problem with the trade is 95% Marc Bergevin and 5% the fact I said Nashville would be smart to unload him and they did. To Montreal. Subban is one of my favourite players so of course it's hard to see him go but this is mostly about Bergevin... and the fact the guy they got is the guy I said was a ticking timebomb.

You were prescient. Sadly, the Habs turned out to be the saps who paid a king's ransom.

For me, it's not about Subban being 'one of my favourite players' (although he is); it's precisely what habs rule stated, making a trade that at best is 'a sideways move with no upside.' In other words, a stupid hockey trade that happened to surrender your very best position player. Folly.

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You were prescient. Sadly, the Habs turned out to be the saps who paid a king's ransom.

For me, it's not about Subban being 'one of my favourite players' (although he is); it's precisely what habs rule stated, making a trade that at best is 'a sideways move with no upside.' In other words, a stupid hockey trade that happened to surrender your very best position player. Folly.

Last 10 player for player trades by Bergevin:

Subban for Weber

Smith-Pelly for Matteau

Weise/Flash for Danault/2018 2nd

Tinordi/Fournier for Bartley/Scott

Tokarski for Friberg

Kassian for Scrivens

Lessio for Thomas

Prust for Kassian/5th

Nevins/7th for Mitchell

Sekac for Smith-Pelly

There's definitely something to the "sideways move" viewpoint. Not a lot of winners there. Some losers. Whole lot of draws.

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So you do realize that Subban being your 'favorite' player will never allow you to be objective at all about the trade and maybe why you are tossing everything but the kitchen sink at Therrien, Bergevin, Molson and Weber to try and make them look bad.

So maybe after 43 pages of repeating yourselves over and over, is time to give up and move on.

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So you do realize that Subban being your 'favorite' player will never allow you to be objective at all about the trade and maybe why you are tossing everything but the kitchen sink at Therrien, Bergevin, Molson and Weber to try and make them look bad.

So maybe after 43 pages of repeating yourselves over and over, is time to give up and move on.

Hardly man. The thing is the points have been hard facts, not blind bible thumping worship of the player. The same arguments could have been made by people who care nothing for Subban.

Totally agree with the repetition though, I mean there are really so many points to be made.

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So you do realize that Subban being your 'favorite' player will never allow you to be objective at all about the trade and maybe why you are tossing everything but the kitchen sink at Therrien, Bergevin, Molson and Weber to try and make them look bad.

So maybe after 43 pages of repeating yourselves over and over, is time to give up and move on.

I agree that this thread is played out.

That said, the notion that I can't separate players I like from a rational analysis of moves relating to them is just asinine. I loved Kovy - he was great fun - but supported his replacement by Gio, I loved Koivu but thought (wrongly, as it turned out) that it was time to turn the page on that era, etc.. I'm not a 10 year old; I want the team to succeed and support ANY move that furthers that end in my judgement.

I could just as easily accuse YOU of having an irrational dislike of flashy players, or of harbouring craven need to defer to management, and then say that that 'will never allow you to be objective' about trading away flashy ol' Subban.

Objective analysis is that Subban is a better overall defenceman than Weber in a multitude of ways, is younger, and has a better contract. It's the defenders of this trade who continually find themselves thrown back on misty, hopeful arguments about 'intangibles,' vague and unsubstantiated rumours about PK being a jerk, rejection of statistics as somehow irrelevant to their 'gut' feeling about which players they like, etc..

Habs rule's succinct summation says it all.

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To me the analytics crowd puts the cart before the horse. The numbers are deriven from the way the players perform on ice, and change constantly from day to day, game to game, year to year. It's not Madden where the player performs indefinitely within the parameters of the numbers alloted to him. Once things get "real" on the ice, the numbers are instantly out dated and redundant. It's a straightforward concept and I can't fathom the difficulty many seem to have in grasping it.

:blush:

Edited by ethan raphael
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