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Subban traded to Nashville


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Just bought a school bus, who wants to come to Montreal and start a riot

Naw, I gotta start getting my bandwagon ready for next May-June. This will be what...cup #25 or something like that? :popcorn:

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72 pages of debate in this thread alone plus the countless times it cropped up in others, and it all ends up with Nashville sending him away in a cap dump. We can now officially put this baby to bed.

F**K YOU MARC BERGEVIN.

He did not "get dumped because he is a liability to his team".  That's not true. He got dumped because his GM has mismanaged the cap and no one will take players who suck like Nick Bonino or kyle T

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Commandant you an I seldom disagree on hockey points

but I can't base this all on analytics, is there a chart out there someone can show me that shows % towards commanding respect from your team? Keeping players honest in front of Price? Fear of blocking shots? Forcing teams to play disciplined hockey against you for fear of a PP? How much you intimidate your opposition? This is the kind of chart Weber would dominate Subban in.

I already knew the analytics people were going to crush this trade, Jamie Mclennan made that clear to me the moment the trade broke, but as he Suggested and I also believe, hockey is more than just stats or observation, but a solid blend of both.

And before anyone starts thinking i'm trying to blindly defend management or even suggest that Subban is not that good, I absolutely am not. With that said let me be clear, this isn't about trying to Say Subban isn't very good, because he is very good. It is more about me saying Shea Weber is also very good.

A few things.... does a chart show intimidation, fear of blocking shots, and forcing teams to play disciplined hockey against you for fear of a PP? The answer is yes. All of these things, if true, would drive numbers. If teams were intimidated to attack Weber's side of the ice, his shot suppression would be good, not the abysmal train wreck it is. Are teams scared to give powerplays? Maybe, Weber's five on five offensive numbers are good, so maybe you are right and they aren't playing as tight a defence. He generates shots on goal and goals, so maybe they aren't blocking his shot. The proof would be there in the pudding though. Those supposed "intangibles" they actually are tangible.

The only one that isn't really on the chart is what his teammates think of him. But I'm not as convinced here either. Do winning teams usually have better locker rooms? Yes, thats true. But its chicken and egg. Does the harmony in the room help the team win; or does the winning create positive feelings and harmony. In my experience playing hockey it was part B. In observing hockey, I see the Habs didn't have dressing room issues and were generally seen as a tight room in 2014-15 and 2013-14. However, they lose this year and suddenly they cant get along. Seems to me winning cures all.

Now beyond the stats is the eye test, and I can tell you what I've seen in Weber. He's a guy who was never that fast to begin with, who is now getting beaten by speed. He is beaten by speed with regularity. Its becoming a huge problem, and the reason why he can no longer play elite level defence.

And he's 30, which isn't that old, which means that if the drop off has already started, we're in trouble.

Oh and he's signed for 10 years.

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I am ready to give up..,what's next, we trade Price for Rask?

I understand why MT likes Weber over Subban. He is less prone to errors. It is the same reason PK gets the shaft on Team Canada. MT wants to play a risk free, boring game and PK would often try to hard and turn it over.

That said, the Weber deal is an albatross and will be a huge problem in future years as he declines. More importantly, when they fire MT and bring in a coach who wants to use speed, they will regret not having PK.

Clearly there was an issue between PK and management or in the room, but I still think this is brutal and should not have been done given Webers decline and long contract.

This day just keeps getting worse.

Take a look at the actual contract numbers, which look very favourable to Habs as dlbalr noted earlier, maybe was in salary cap thread?.

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Markov-Weber

Good luck with fast players

Come Friday it will be Fowler-Weber as top pairing.

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that same committee picked Friggin Bouwmeester over Subban. The "supremely' qualified hockey committee over-looked Subban because the hockey establishment likes vanilla hockey players (literally - don't like the chocolate Subban). They don't like the uppity black man who won't stay silent off the ice and chip it in on the ice.

In the SHORT run we lose. Subban without MT is a perennial scoring leader and norris nominee.

25 years ago Savard made an idiotic deal for an old french guy. This year we traded the best player on the team for an old dman in decline. 20 years ago we traded the franchise, because the idiotic management team picked mario FRIGGIN tremblay over patrick Roy. This year, they picked FRIGGIN MT over Subban. All the MT and MB supporters take a bow for your support of this friggin useless management team.

I would have swallowed a Subban for 4th pick-Draisatl (or Hall) and Klefbom and Yakapov as a throw-in trade, because we would be filling other holes on the team and weakening our D in the immediate term to do so. But this is an idiotic move over the habs not wanting the uppity black man who won't conform with the organizational's vanilla image and expectations.

Look at "let it go" video the habs did. You saw the one player that was different. The difference between Subban and the rest of the players in that video is pretty much the reason he was traded by this useless management team.

Lets all put aside popularity and player love for a moment, and truly take a good long look at how a SUPREMELY qualified committee of hockey people did NOT chose Subban for team Canada, yet chose Weber on its earliest occasion.

I am not suggesting this trade does not hurt us more in the long run, but if our best window is within the next 3 years, is it crazy to suggest Weber, with his style of play and Leadership help us more in that aspect?

and what about considering that if Weber starts to fall off in 4 or 5 years that Sergachev is not by then, in a position to be a top pairing guy playing big minutes. Does this trade happen like this if we didn't just draft a stud d-man that could provide top tier play in a few years? I doubt it honestly, Sergachev provided MB with a security blanket for the long term risk while providing a different outlook for the next 3 years or so that brought more to the table to facilitate a playoff run of significance. Weber is a monster, Pierre Lebrun reported on TSN a group of Western Conference GMs told him basically "Thank God Weber is out of this conference", that says something, it says a lot actually. They didn;t say "Oh crap Subban is here". Weber is as important in a playoff series grind a big bodied power forward who is dominating, he is intimidating, he is nasty, and he can hurt you individually for taking penalties. Not to set the world on fire, but those are all things Subban can't do.

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, and remain objective, and truthfully if the consensus from the people making millions of dollars to do an NHL job are picking Weber all day over Subban, from top tier coaches to GMs. Then I chose to keep the pitch fork in the closet until further notice, because I simply don't make millions to make those decisions and watch hockey as closely and detailed as they do, and neither does anyone else here.

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Come Friday it will be Fowler-Weber as top pairing.

Who do you think gets dealt for Fowler?

I could actually see Beaulieu playing with Weber this year. I think they'd be more comfortable having Beaulieu with him on the top pairing instead of Beaulieu-Subban. Insulate him with a safer partner but Beaulieu is also efficient enough with the puck on his stick to skate his way out of some trouble if Weber defers like he did with Josi in Nashville.

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Forgetting when Price was playing how many stellar saves he had to make or goals let in because of a PK blunder?

Just looked it up and if Weber retires before his contract is over, the Predators get the cap recapture penalties, not the Canadiens.

Did you watch Weber against the Sharks???? In the playoffs with the chips on the line???? he was god awful.
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I would have swallowed a Subban for 4th pick-Draisatl (or Hall) and Klefbom and Yakapov as a throw-in trade, because we would be filling other holes on the team and weakening our D in the immediate term to do so. But this is an idiotic move over the habs not wanting the uppity black man who won't conform with the organizational's vanilla image and expectations.

@TSNRyanRishaug The ask from MTL for Subban was astronomical to Oil. Draisaitl, #4, Klefbom or Nurse and more.

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What about these stats

- Called out after multiple games by his coach for a game losing turnover

- Called out by Canadiens Allumni for his off ice antics

- Flopping around looking for a Penalty call while a goal is scored moments later

- Being fined for Diving

- Playing as 8th d-man for Canada at the Olympics

- Not even playing for Canada at the World Cup

- Grand Total 2 votes for 2016 Norris Trophy

Weber has none of those dreadful stats on his resume, are their any analytics for that? I know PK is beloved, he is a fan favorite, but this is the stuff i'm talking about. It was far from all roses with the guy, and we need to stop acting like we just traded Niklas Lidstrom for Patrice Brisbois.

Really????

Called out by a useless bum who has no business coaching in the NHL and on any other team would have been fired????? See his buddy the other bum in Calgary. MT deserved the same fate.

Called out by his alumni - most of whom don't miss a chance to voice their jealousy with the money players today make and who smoked a pack a day in their day???? What did Beleaveau's widow say - I'll take her opinion over their's.

flopping around??? Which the gritty Brindamour or Crosby have never done right??

Playing 8th D at the olympics. Because the establishment don't like the uppity black guy. Any coach who picks Bouwmeester, Vlasic and Peiternagelo over Subban are nuts. It helped that the St Louis coach was part of that coaching staff.

-Sure he only got 2 votes for the norris - the whole team sucked and a part of the reason is the idiot coach he is playing for. Weber's d-partner also got a vote. Who was Subban playing with???

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Who do you think gets dealt for Fowler?

I could actually see Beaulieu playing with Weber this year. I think they'd be more comfortable having Beaulieu with him on the top pairing instead of Beaulieu-Subban. Insulate him with a safer partner but Beaulieu is also efficient enough with the puck on his stick to skate his way out of some trouble if Weber defers like he did with Josi in Nashville.

Never thought it through that far and I assume very unlikely to happen anyways. But how bout, Habs 2017 1st, McCarron & goalie prospect for Fowler.

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Never thought it through that far and I assume very unlikely to happen anyways. But how bout, Habs 2017 1st, McCarron & goalie prospect for Fowler.

I remember reading somewhere (Bob McKenzie?) that MB wanted to overhaul the defense. If he gets Fowler, with the addition of Weber, then it's true. I also think a UFA defenseman is signed on Friday as well.

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PK was more than a hockey player. PK was part of us. I don't care who is or is not a better player right now. I don't care if we win a cup if the cost is our PK. He is our PK.

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I remember reading somewhere (Bob McKenzie?) that MB wanted to overhaul the defense. If he gets Fowler, with the addition of Weber, then it's true. I also think a UFA defenseman is signed on Friday as well.

Also saw it noted Bergevin was hoping to tweek the defense, but I didn't think anything this radical and that a scoring winger should be the target for Friday.

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Also saw it noted Bergevin was hoping to tweek the defense, but I didn't think anything this radical and that a scoring winger should be the target for Friday.

Expectations are Bergevin trades Gally and Plek for more third line wingers.

Then in a surprising to none move trades Price for Ludqvist because Hank had more wins than Price last season.

#MontrealScrewJobPart2

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Team Canada took Kris Draper and Kurt Maltby over Sidney Crosby in 2006.

Team Canada took Shayne Corson and Rob Zamuner over Ron Francis and Mark Messier in 1998

Team Canada took Chris Kunitz over Martin St. Louis, Claude Giroux, and Tyler Seguin in 2014.

Team Canada took a washed up Brenden Morrow over Steven Stamkos in 2010.

Team Canada didn't take Steve Yzerman in 1987 or 1991

Team Canada didn't take Patrick Roy in 1991 or 1996.



Tell me again how who Team Canada selects automatically means they are a better player.

Oh and one of the guys picking the 2016 edition of Team Canada..... the same idiot who just traded Subban.

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After taking the time to look at this trade , I like what Weber brings to the team over PK.

If we got Weber and PK was not part of the trade everyone would be loving this trade. But because it's PK going the other way people don't like it.

If we traded markov 5 years ago this trade doesn't happen. If we signed PK long term at the 6mil he wanted at the time this trade doesn't happen. If we fired MT this trade doesn't happen.

I want to see what MB does July 1st and who else he brings in before I give up on this organization.

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After taking the time to look at this trade , I like what Weber brings to the team over PK.

If we got Weber and PK was not part of the trade everyone would be loving this trade. But because it's PK going the other way people don't like it.

If we traded markov 5 years ago this trade doesn't happen. If we signed PK long term at the 6mil he wanted at the time this trade doesn't happen. If we fired MT this trade doesn't happen.

I want to see what MB does July 1st and who else he brings in before I give up on this organization.

I agree as well. Thing is, July 1st can't come fast enough.

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Sure, if we got Weber without trading PK we'd be happy.

If we got Martin Rucinsky without trading Patrick Roy, we'd have also been pretty happy.

This isn't about Weber, this is about giving up a top 5 dman to get a good, but inferior player.

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I've had a long time to digest this, and I just don't get it.

I am a HUGE Weber fan, and I'm excited to have him on the team. He's an exceptional player. I'll be one of the first to rock a Habs WEBER Jersey.

I'm not surprised to see PK go. There was too much going on in that room for the status quo to remain.

But, I figured the return would be a bit better. Maybe a package.. Hall/Nurse/Yak+ or Duchene/Barrie+.. I'm surprised it's one for one.

I'm a Habs fan, and I'll root just as strongly this year as I did last.

Let's see the on-ice product. If this fixes the room, it may make up for the difference between a PK and a Shea.

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25 years ago Savard made an idiotic deal for an old french guy. This year we traded the best player on the team for an old dman in decline. 20 years ago we traded the franchise, because the idiotic management team picked mario FRIGGIN tremblay over patrick Roy.

Subban is not the best player on the team. Price is. Montreal didn't go into a season long funk when Subban got hurt.

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