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Subban traded to Nashville

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Trying to make the reverse mistake as galchenyuk with Scherbak didn't help his development.  They have a centre in galchenyuk and didn't let him play centre for over two years and than despite stats that show him having more success at centre are he'll bent on turning him into a winger - despite the glaring need for a centre.  

 

With thy scherbak they have a guy that was a winger his whole career and lefebve wasted his first year trying to make him a centre???  Why not also have him play goal or defence??

 

 

 

 

 

What the hell is wrong with this organization? This is pathetic.

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On ‎2017‎-‎05‎-‎31 at 8:45 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

What the hell is wrong with this organization? This is pathetic.

Glaring need for a centre, has little to do with where a player "should" be playing, neither does fan/armchair GMs expectations.

Scherbak likely is very similar to Galchenyuk and is better fit on the wing...at least till he (they) learns what to consistently do without puck.

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16 minutes ago, DON said:

Glaring need for a centre, has little to do with where a player "should" be playing, neither does fan/armchair GMs expectations.

Scherbak likely is very similar to Galchenyuk and is better fit on the wing...at least till he (they) learns what to consistently do without puck.

 

There is a huge difference between a player who grew up playing centre, and one who grew up playing wing and the team converting him to a new position, in the midst of recovering from an injury and in the midst of jumping a level in play and being one of the youngest players in his new league. 

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4m970uk.jpg

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I kinda figured he wouldnt last till end of contract in Nashville.

But, i thought a guy like him would land in NY or LA.

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72 pages of debate in this thread alone plus the countless times it cropped up in others, and it all ends up with Nashville sending him away in a cap dump. We can now officially put this baby to bed.

 

The end

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LgInJlW.png

 

To be fair, I would down vote this post as well if I argued for 3 years about how bad of a trade it was and it skewed my whole opinion about the organization. It sucks being wrong I imagine

 

How about our Captain Daddy Weber being on stage with management announcing our first round pick? What a great moment! 

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Maybe you got downvoted for smug trolling?  There are clearly several factors in play here, including Nashville's cap and stacked D situation.  We could also measure the trade by how many playoff series have been won by each team since then.  Weber's also coming off a down year where he looked gassed down the stretch.  That said, the Preds sure sold low on PK.

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18 minutes ago, Neech said:

Maybe you got downvoted for smug trolling?  There are clearly several factors in play here, including Nashville's cap and stacked D situation.  We could also measure the trade by how many playoff series have been won by each team since then.  Weber's also coming off a down year where he looked gassed down the stretch.  That said, the Preds sure sold low on PK.

 

Thank you for your actual response, and not a passive aggressive down vote. 

 

Of course there are several factors in play here. Nashville traded for a defenseman who makes more money than he is worth, so they had to dump him. They are also stacked at D, and have been for some time, so that point is also moot. I am not even going to talk about the possible locker room issues, as that is purely speculation. 

 

Trolling? This whole site was trolling for two years until this past season where it was clear who was the beneficiary of the trade. It has been a long road for us trade defenders, so I don't think basking in this glory is too much to ask for. 

 

How is Weber coming off a down year again? Is it the Habs being more successful with him in the lineup? Is it him on pace for 20 goals in an injury shortened season? I look forward to your answer. 

 

Playoff series won by each team? TEAM being the key word here. Please elaborate why Subban propelled his TEAM to more series wins, but then got dumped off to the Devils for garbage

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54 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

 

How is Weber coming off a down year again? Is it the Habs being more successful with him in the lineup? Is it him on pace for 20 goals in an injury shortened season? I look forward to your answer. 

 

Playoff series won by each team? TEAM being the key word here. Please elaborate why Subban propelled his TEAM to more series wins, but then got dumped off to the Devils for garbage

 

Weber's a good player, so obviously the Habs are better with him than without him.  He did finish the year poorly, however, after missing a big chunk.  So he had maybe a third of the season where he was the top player we need him to be. 

 

PK was a part of more playoff success before and after The Trade than Weber ever has been, and has good playoff numbers to back that up (along with some huge goals).  Unfortunately, Shea has only made it out of the first round three times in his 14 year career.  Let's hope he can become Captain Clutch in his mid to late 30's (gulp).

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20 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

Weber's a good player, so obviously the Habs are better with him than without him.  He did finish the year poorly, however, after missing a big chunk.  So he had maybe a third of the season where he was the top player we need him to be. 

 

PK was a part of more playoff success before and after The Trade than Weber ever has been, and has good playoff numbers to back that up (along with some huge goals).  Unfortunately, Shea has only made it out of the first round three times in his 14 year career.  Let's hope he can become Captain Clutch in his mid to late 30's (gulp).

So are you saying PK is better just because Nashville went on more deeper runs then Montreal in the playoffs ?? if that's how you base a trade you're wrong in looking at it that way.  Nashville's playoff run's are based on the fact their a much deeper team then Montreal. Case in point if the have key guys go down with injury, they have guys that step right in and they don't miss a beat. Montreal doesn't have a deep team, and if we get key guys go down with injury we're in trouble. Theirs a big difference there. But as far as PK for Weber player wise honestly I don't think he has made a big impact on that team because if he did they would of never traded him today. They felt the cap relief was more important then having PK. So that tells you all you need to know.

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34 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

Weber's a good player, so obviously the Habs are better with him than without him.  He did finish the year poorly, however, after missing a big chunk.  So he had maybe a third of the season where he was the top player we need him to be. 

 

PK was a part of more playoff success before and after The Trade than Weber ever has been, and has good playoff numbers to back that up (along with some huge goals).  Unfortunately, Shea has only made it out of the first round three times in his 14 year career.  Let's hope he can become Captain Clutch in his mid to late 30's (gulp).

 

I agree that the Habs are better with him and would not want to dump him as a negative value player. He did miss a chunk of the year and it was scary, but I thought he responded admirably. Look at Price's numbers with him on the ice vs off the ice. Also his intangible leadership value is off the imaginary charts. 

 

I also agree that PK has great playoff numbers, I actually picked him way too early in one of my drafts because of this reason. However you can't just say PK's teams have made it further because of him, whereas Weber's teams didn't make it as far because of him. We are comparing player vs player. Two different players with different skill sets. One got dumped because he was a liability to his team, and one is still the captain of the Canadiens and thriving....

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You guys know that Weber out pointed Subban, better plus minus this year with less games played right? 

 

2 different players, give them there due. 

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He did not "get dumped because he is a liability to his team".  That's not true.

He got dumped because his GM has mismanaged the cap and no one will take players who suck like Nick Bonino or kyle Turris, who they would rather dump but would have to include assets to do so (ala Patrick Marleau).

 

A player who is an actual liability would need to have assets included with him in order to get another team to take on the contract. 

His value is depressed because of the contract... but it wasn't negative value.... the Predators got picks and two prospects.  Obviously not full value because of the contract... but not negative value either. 

At least be accurate in your statement. 

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Guys, come on..

 

Are we really doing this thing again? This thing still can't have objective discussion?

 

Weber ended his season belly up after a very strong start, which is usually the case with any player who misses the kind of hockey he did. Some players don't even make it off the blocks as good as he did, they just stumble through the whole year. If you are going to try to use that to validate your self fulfilling prophecy that his impending implosion as a player, due to his age and speed, is upon us, you will very likely end up being wrong, and still have several years to wait before you can jump for joy on the I told you so's.

 

P.K Subban, was and still is, an incredible force on any D, yes he had a down year, yes he makes too much money to play on a second pair on a team trying to contend while dealing with self inflicted cap issues. No, this trade is not his fault as a player, he has delivered the merchandise in Nashville since his trade, he was dynamic, hard to play against, showed up every game and put up solid numbers. His trade today was not a weird victory for us on the trade which sent him to Nashville, it is literally a festering over spending issue that has taken place in Nashville needing an antidote before it all starts crumbling. In my estimation, Poile has to take the blame for the Subban trade, not Subban, salary cap hits for Turris and Bonino a long with impending salary cap jumps with Josi, have forced them to make an unpleasant sacrifice of Subban and his salary.

 

There, I didn't even struggle to write that, just spoke truthfully, and what was on my mind, objectively, about the 2 situations. So I ask you guys, honestly, what the heck is so damn hard about it? Surely enough time has passed for everyone to be thinking clearly on the matter by now, to be able to see how very good these 2 guys are and how they are assets to any team they play for.

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8 hours ago, Link67 said:

Guys, come on..

 

Are we really doing this thing again? This thing still can't have objective discussion?

 

Weber ended his season belly up after a very strong start, which is usually the case with any player who misses the kind of hockey he did. Some players don't even make it off the blocks as good as he did, they just stumble through the whole year. If you are going to try to use that to validate your self fulfilling prophecy that his impending implosion as a player, due to his age and speed, is upon us, you will very likely end up being wrong, and still have several years to wait before you can jump for joy on the I told you so's.

 

P.K Subban, was and still is, an incredible force on any D, yes he had a down year, yes he makes too much money to play on a second pair on a team trying to contend while dealing with self inflicted cap issues. No, this trade is not his fault as a player, he has delivered the merchandise in Nashville since his trade, he was dynamic, hard to play against, showed up every game and put up solid numbers. His trade today was not a weird victory for us on the trade which sent him to Nashville, it is literally a festering over spending issue that has taken place in Nashville needing an antidote before it all starts crumbling. In my estimation, Poile has to take the blame for the Subban trade, not Subban, salary cap hits for Turris and Bonino a long with impending salary cap jumps with Josi, have forced them to make an unpleasant sacrifice of Subban and his salary.

 

There, I didn't even struggle to write that, just spoke truthfully, and what was on my mind, objectively, about the 2 situations. So I ask you guys, honestly, what the heck is so damn hard about it? Surely enough time has passed for everyone to be thinking clearly on the matter by now, to be able to see how very good these 2 guys are and how they are assets to any team they play for.

 

I feel your Passion and Lucidity Link67 :)

When it comes to PK (this is why I tried to keep myself out since yesterday);

it's not a pay/play thing for some folks (me), it goes way deep in core.

PK for me, is the stinking it to the parents that told me: "tu peux pas jouer au hockey! Ca se joue sur une pas-ti-noir!!!" when I was 8.

PK is kinda like Barak I guess, well to me anyway :)

(edit)

Now all that aside, PK remains a Premium Dman in the league, man won Norris, Man paid like a top Dman and it would not be an issue if what? his name is Karlson? I take PK's 9 over EK's 11.5 any F&%$N day of the week.

Would anyone have an issue to give up whatever Devils did to get PK? 2x2nd and 2 players ain't no 1 heard of?

Who was thinking EK would be ok on left side again even he a right hand Dman?

Bah!!!!:surrender:

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First off, while even mentioning the word downvote has a “stigma” around here I do agree that one shouldn’t have to be “worried” to even post something positive about the fact that Subban got dealt out of Nashville. This becomes a personal issue to some, rather than an actual valid reason to downvote someone.

 

With that being said, there is no one anywhere on here that I’ve seen who has ever mentioned that either Subban or Weber aren’t great players on their own. The one thing is that there were many who were stating that a player like P.K. Subban should never be traded out of any organization and to that I have to say well lookey what we have here. All I do know is that I’d rather have Shea Weber on our team than Davies, another player I can’t remember, and two second round draft picks, which is what Nashville received for Subban. In that sense, what a great trade for us.

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26 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

First off, while even mentioning the word downvote has a “stigma” around here I do agree that one shouldn’t have to be “worried” to even post something positive about the fact that Subban got dealt out of Nashville. This becomes a personal issue to some, rather than an actual valid reason to downvote someone.

 

With that being said, there is no one anywhere on here that I’ve seen who has ever mentioned that either Subban or Weber aren’t great players on their own. The one thing is that there were many who were stating that a player like P.K. Subban should never be traded out of any organization and to that I have to say well lookey what we have here. All I do know is that I’d rather have Shea Weber on our team than Davies, another player I can’t remember, and two second round draft picks, which is what Nashville received for Subban. In that sense, what a great trade for us.

 

I don't downvote and being downvoted doesn't change my opinions. A good/great counter point goes further for me.

 

SW is a Great Dman. I don't dispute in Anyway.

 

PK (to me) is beyond the game of hockey. It doesn't help any1s counter point against it, if they know I have (been lucky enough) to shake the man's hand. Many players do the kind of philanthropic works he does but just like his game he brings that in the level of great as well. I like PK the hockey player. I put PK in hero class when I look at the person. Heros like that I want in my City.

There is another in this city that goes by PKP and Ohhh My Word! He Is Sub-Human!!! 

Give Qc City a team quick so PKP can Leave too then!!!

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50 minutes ago, ehjay said:

I put PK in hero class when I look at the person. Heros like that I want in my City.

Hero, how so?

Quote

There is another in this city that goes by PKP and Ohhh My Word! He Is Sub-Human!!! 

Give Qc City a team quick so PKP can Leave too then!!!

Not sure what this is referring to?

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23 minutes ago, DON said:

Not sure what this is referring to?

 

I suspect PKP is referring to Péladeau ... QC politics!

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Hero, how so?

Not sure what this is referring to?

Hero as a Person see works out of ice plz

Pierre Karl Peladeau Sub-Human in My book, he also making/helping push for a team in Qc city

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13 minutes ago, ehjay said:

Hero as a Person see works out of ice plz

Pierre Karl Peladeau Sub-Human in My book

 

PCO is not human

 

And thats a good thing.

 

Pierre-Carl Ouellette

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13 hours ago, Commandant said:

He did not "get dumped because he is a liability to his team".  That's not true.

He got dumped because his GM has mismanaged the cap and no one will take players who suck like Nick Bonino or kyle Turris, who they would rather dump but would have to include assets to do so (ala Patrick Marleau).

 

A player who is an actual liability would need to have assets included with him in order to get another team to take on the contract. 

His value is depressed because of the contract... but it wasn't negative value.... the Predators got picks and two prospects.  Obviously not full value because of the contract... but not negative value either. 

At least be accurate in your statement. 

 

Call it whatever you like, but the fact remains that his cap hit was a hindrance to his team. The very second I heard what he signed for in Montreal I hated it. Liked the player, hated the contract. Up until the upcoming season starts, he was the highest paid dman in the league despite not even being in the conversation for the best, even arguably the 4th best on his own team. You're saying that because Poile signed other players for too much money, that is why Subban got dumped? That just proves my point. Show me one team in the league who doesn't have some payers that are over paid. This is a cap world, and nobody on the Predators took up more of the cap or underperformed more compared to their cap than Subban, that's why he got dumped. Poile was willing to eat 3 million (!) just to get rid of him, you're telling me that he couldn't find somewhere for Turris or Bonino? In NHL history there have only been two trades involving a player making 9 or more million per season, and they were both PK Subban. 

 

But yes you're right, he wasn't a liability to his team because the Preds didn't have to send other assets with him to get rid of him. 

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Looks like Nashville will be signing Duchene with this move.

 

I guess they value him more than Subban.

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1 hour ago, illWill said:

This is a cap world, and nobody on the Predators took up more of the cap or underperformed more compared to their cap than Subban, that's why he got dumped. Poile was willing to eat 3 million (!) just to get rid of him, you're telling me that he couldn't find somewhere for Turris or Bonino? In NHL history there have only been two trades involving a player making 9 or more million per season, and they were both PK Subban.

 

 

You keep twisting facts.

 

1) poile did NOT retain any money to deal subban.  Was he willing to retain $3 million? Maybe yes, maybe no, but yes there were some rumours.  I guarantee you one thing though.  If he did retain money he would have made a far different trade and got a far different, likely more valuable return, than he did.

 

The leafs were said to be involved and wanted the 3 m retained.  Nashville wants a centre.  Just my speculation but maybe that offer was Nylander for subban with 3m retained to equalize contracts.  Maybe it was Kadri plus a top prospect for subban.  We dont know what thr deal was where poile was considering retention (and if he even was)

 

2) nobody on the preds underperformed more relative to their cap?  Thats just False looking at their capfriendly.  They wouldnt be looking to create cap space to add a forward if turris and bonino werent vastly underperforming their cap hits.

 

But you just want to twist things to be smug and brag about being right.  You arent taking an objective view of this at all.

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