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2016-17 NHL Season Thread


dlbalr

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13 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I've seen Gomez and McDonagh mentioned in posts in the last month or so. 

 

But sure, I guess too much time has passed on this trade that we can't discuss it anymore.  Marc Bergevins defenders get upset when we talk about it. 

Funny how they are talking about the Subban-Weber trade EVERY day, MULTIPLE times a day on the NHL satellite radio, but the MB defenders don't like comments on the trade on a friggin habs forum.

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11 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Last year we didn't make the playoffs. This season we did. Forget the argument that we are any better. How does the evidence show we're worse? That being said, three facts about last year are that Carey Price got injured, Brendan Gallagher got injured, and Subban had a terrible year by his standards.

 

Despite how it seems, Subban and Eberle were probably my favorite Canadian Junior players of all time. I don't know how Subban wasn't picked up in he first round. It's crazy. This doesn't change the fact that while I pride myself on trying to have an open mind in life, I was harder on Subban than any other player last year because he actually deserved it. A close second would be Eller in the type

of bonehead plays I am talking about. His fanboys are forgetting how he played last season, truly. 

 

As long as those hockey reasons for the trade remain mystical in your mind, then those reasons that the trade hurt our team should remain mystical as well. You've created the thought that the move was lateral, and that seems like a silly reason to complain about a trade unless one is irrationally attached to P.K. Subban in an emotional way.

 

At least I register that other people have mentioned how the move potentially hurt our transition game but the main thing we actually lost is entertainment value. Rivers are being cried over that. We can continue to ignore that our team played more as a unit and improved on the power play, or we can criticize our coaches because their system doesn't revolve around P.K. Subban's style of play. Because that's all we continue to hear. And sure, let's keep thinking that this was as bad a trade as losing Patrick Roy even before Nashville lifts he cup. Trading Price and seeing him lift a cup (which I believe would happen) would be the equivalent. Not trading PK Subban for an equal but different and more renown player.

Yes you're right trading a Norris winner for a mark messier trophy winner is equal.  It's even better that the messier trophy winner is signed until he is 41 or 42.  It doesn't matter that his contract will be an anchor for the last 5 years of the deal, because even if isn't producing, Weber can provide the leadership that is clearly much more important than skill or ability 

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4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yes you're right trading a Norris winner for a mark messier trophy winner is equal.  It's even better that the messier trophy winner is signed until he is 41 or 42.  It doesn't matter that his contract will be an anchor for the last 5 years of the deal, because even if isn't producing, Weber can provide the leadership that is clearly much more important than skill or ability 

 

Indeed. xXx asks what my problem is if the trade is a 'lateral move.' First, I believe this to be the most charitable interpretation of the two players (personally, I think that puck possession, transition, and speed are what increasingly define the game, and there is no question who is better on these fronts). But even if it's correct to define the trade as a lateral move, Weber is four years older than Subban and much closer to the 'decline' stage of his career than Subban likely is. If the two players were the same age, I'd still be iffy about the trade, but would at least be satisfied that we did not pointlessly shorten the Cup window of the team's core. Assuming that the average player's game starts to significantly drop off around 34-5, we've got 2-3 years left of Weber at close to his prime. Nashville has 6-7 more years of peak performance from PK. Given that the trade did NOT measurably improve the club relative to 2015, all we did was burn four years of the window. I don't know what is so hard to understand about this concept.

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I've actually never enjoyed debating anything on here more than the Weber-Subban trade and I'm on the other side of the fence. I could talk about it all day. I just realized for he first time that this thread feels like a Nashville Predators forum though, not a Habs forum.

 

The more vocal people are those trying to debate how the Habs lost the deal. Call it a difference in personality, but even if it were true, that's something I'd try to keep on the down low. It's not something I would be constantly bragging about amongst Habs fans. Those are the types of fans that other fan bases take pleasure in chirping.

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8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

In no way do I think of this trade as a disaster on the scale of the Roy trade. But it is interesting to ask whether these RAH RAH fans would have been on the internet - had there been an internet - in 1995-96 defending Houle for that deal as well. 'We got back a great young goalie in Thibault! I love Ruscinsky's skill! Tremblay's old school coaching is what this team needs!' Etc. It's all too easy to imagine some of these Bergevin-boosters doing that...

 

I was a big Therrien supporter up until the middle of last year, but at some point you have to think critically. Some people give up their faculties to authority. These guys deserved the benefit of the doubt for the first three years, and they had some middling success, but this ship is headed in the wrong direction. They might be, as Marc Dumont suggested, headed for the plight of the early-2000s Leafs. Old team, not good enough, with few young players and prospects on the horizon. Then there's the report of Sylvain Lefebvre getting an extension...for what!

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6 minutes ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

I was a big Therrien supporter up until the middle of last year, but at some point you have to think critically. Some people give up their faculties to authority. These guys deserved the benefit of the doubt for the first three years, and they had some middling success, but this ship is headed in the wrong direction. They might be, as Marc Dumont suggested, headed for the plight of the early-2000s Leafs. Old team, not good enough, with few young players and prospects on the horizon. Then there's the report of Sylvain Lefebvre getting an extension...for what!

 

We look a lot like the Leafs of that era, yes...riding it out with accomplished vets, able to win a round or two, but not real contenders; with a relative dearth of young talent, and a management group that seems more interested in internal politics (MB's buddies) than winning. Plus a critical mass of fans all too happy to swallow the Kool-Aid. Pure Leafs. The core still probably has 3-4 years before serious decay sets in. This is why, like I say, really bold moves are now required. The status quo is inadequate and there is seemingly little help coming from the system.

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34 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

Supposed Habs fans calling other Habs fans for supporting their favourite team Leafs fans. That's rich.

 

I live in Toronto I know all about Leafs fans.

 

What?  Who called someone a Leafs fan. 

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Funny how they are talking about the Subban-Weber trade EVERY day, MULTIPLE times a day on the NHL satellite radio, but the MB defenders don't like comments on the trade on a friggin habs forum.

 

I'd be careful with the last comment.  I wasn't jumping for joy on the hockey side of the trade but I'm not a fan of reading consistent (and near-constant) complaining about the trade with comments that often boil down to "See, I knew I was right and I'm going to make people see it in 90% of my posts".  I'm sure that's not necessarily intentional but to me, that's how quite a few posts over the last few pages read and regardless of my opinions on the trade, that gets annoying after a while.

 

As for the discussion at hand, I probably should weigh in with a couple of thoughts.  My own two cents is that Subban is getting way too much singular credit for Nashville's run.  He's playing well, no doubt, but there are quite a few other factors in them being where they are now that aren't getting any attention.  To name a few:

 

- Ekholm's continued development into a high quality top four

- Ellis' continued development into a high quality top four

- Rinne playing like a good goalie (an improved defence deserves some credit but not all of it)

- Arvidsson turning into a top liner practically overnight (he had eight goals last year, 31 this season)

- Full season of Johansen which gave their offence another boost

- Corey Crawford playing horribly in the first round

 

Again, that's not to take away from anything Subban has done but there are a lot more factors at play for Nashville being where they are than just the trade from last June. 

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9 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I'd be careful with the last comment.  I wasn't jumping for joy on the hockey side of the trade but I'm not a fan of reading consistent (and near-constant) complaining about the trade with comments that often boil down to "See, I knew I was right and I'm going to make people see it in 90% of my posts".  I'm sure that's not necessarily intentional but to me, that's how quite a few posts over the last few pages read and regardless of my opinions on the trade, that gets annoying after a while.

 

As for the discussion at hand, I probably should weigh in with a couple of thoughts.  My own two cents is that Subban is getting way too much singular credit for Nashville's run.  He's playing well, no doubt, but there are quite a few other factors in them being where they are now that aren't getting any attention.  To name a few:

 

- Ekholm's continued development into a high quality top four

- Ellis' continued development into a high quality top four

- Rinne playing like a good goalie (an improved defence deserves some credit but not all of it)

- Arvidsson turning into a top liner practically overnight (he had eight goals last year, 31 this season)

- Full season of Johansen which gave their offence another boost

- Corey Crawford playing horribly in the first round

 

Again, that's not to take away from anything Subban has done but there are a lot more factors at play for Nashville being where they are than just the trade from last June. 

 

I don't think its just the trade either. 

 

I think what the run is doing though, is blowing up the arguments that were made against subban though.... its showing that all the faults he supposedly had, which made it necessary for him to be traded, just aren't true. (defensive liability, locker room cancer, etc.... )

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14 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I don't think its just the trade either. 

 

I think what the run is doing though, is blowing up the arguments that were made against subban though.... its showing that all the faults he supposedly had, which made it necessary for him to be traded, just aren't true. (defensive liability, locker room cancer, etc.... )

We got rid of one of the real cancers - MT too late and the second one (MB), will probably be gone next year.

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I don't think Ellis takes that extra step without Weber gone.

 

I don't think Ekholm takes that extra step without Subban as his partner.

 

I don't think Nashville plays a style where they rely on two defensive pairings equally without Weber traded.

 

I don't think Rinne has such a good postseason without Ekholm and Subban shutting down the best the opposition had to offer.

 

I also don't think we've seen the best of Subban in Nashville. He's clearly nursing something still. 

 

Nashville is being talked about like a powerhouse in the league when they barely made the playoffs. There's a lot of reasons to it but trading for the best scoring defenceman in the playoffs next to Karlsson certainly helps.

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25 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I don't think Ellis takes that extra step without Weber gone.

 

I don't think Ekholm takes that extra step without Subban as his partner.

 

I don't think Nashville plays a style where they rely on two defensive pairings equally without Weber traded.

 

I don't think Rinne has such a good postseason without Ekholm and Subban shutting down the best the opposition had to offer.

 

I also don't think we've seen the best of Subban in Nashville. He's clearly nursing something still. 

 

Nashville is being talked about like a powerhouse in the league when they barely made the playoffs. There's a lot of reasons to it but trading for the best scoring defenceman in the playoffs next to Karlsson certainly helps.

i also think they will be hurt the most by the expansion draft. I can't think of any other team that is going to lose a dman that will be as good as Nashville's.  Unless Poile can make a deal with vegas, they will probably lose either Ellis or Ekholm.  I think we also lost beachiman to them when they came into the league.

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4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

i also think they will be hurt the most by the expansion draft. I can't think of any other team that is going to lose a dman that will be as good as Nashville's.  Unless Poile can make a deal with vegas, they will probably lose either Ellis or Ekholm.  I think we also lost beachiman to them when they came into the league.

 

Nashville won't lose a defenceman.

 

They will use the option of protecting 8 skaters insted of 7fwds and 3d...  They will protect the four defenceman and four forwards (Forsberg, Arvidsson, Johansen, Neal). 

 

The will lose one of Calle Jarnkrok, Colton Scissons, Colin White, or Craig Smith. 

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25 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Jarnkrok cause finding centres in this draft is a bitch. 

Yeah, but the way MB is going and the uncertainty around Galchenyuk, Vegas may end up with better centres than we have.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Jarnkrok cause finding centres in this draft is a bitch. 

 

They can bank on Soderberg reversing his bad season to be their 2C. Maybe sign Brian Flynn as a 4C. 3C has options with Stajan, Krueger, Plekanec. Wouldn't hurt to try Matt Perreault at centre even though he plays a lot of wing in Winnipeg.

 

It's really not so bad after signing Shipachov. Also Craig Smith has experience at centre. He's not just a right wing. Again, versatility.

 

But Jarnkrok has like six years at $2 million and I think he's only 24. It's such a safe choice.

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9 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

I'd be careful with the last comment.  I wasn't jumping for joy on the hockey side of the trade but I'm not a fan of reading consistent (and near-constant) complaining about the trade with comments that often boil down to "See, I knew I was right and I'm going to make people see it in 90% of my posts".  I'm sure that's not necessarily intentional but to me, that's how quite a few posts over the last few pages read and regardless of my opinions on the trade, that gets annoying after a while.

 

Again, that's not to take away from anything Subban has done but there are a lot more factors at play for Nashville being where they are than just the trade from last June. 

This summation is excellent... tired of the malcontents spewing hatred for OUR club.

 

Wanna brag and say how much you appreciate Poille's 20 years of a GM and Nashville's new top(cough) defenseman? https://www.hockeyforums.net/forum/34-nashville-predators-forum/ Join up and cya...

 

I'm glad for PK's continued success, but I really don't want to hear the doom and gloom constantly surrounding our favorite club.

Some of us here think the Habs had a good season, and weren't really that far away from going deeper, and Weber played well for us, good teams lose playoff rounds.

Some of us are still hopeful for coming seasons, and would like a molecule of respect for being positive, instead of getting jumped on in every second post if we are positive about our club's future...

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So when Houle and Corey traded Roy, we were supposed to just shut up and support the club?

 

When Gauthier traded Cammalleri mid game against the Bruins, just shut up and be happy?


Nah. My hockey fandom don't work that way. You want to still think the team has a future? You do you. I supported Bergevin quite a lot in the past. 

 

Maybe I eat crow next year but this year has gone almost exactly as I suspected. The only thing that surprised me was Therrien getting fired and Julien being worse at handling Galchenyuk. If this is the Habs I'm being given, I'll wait for the Habs I want.

 

I spend most of my time in the out of town thread and will continue until Bergevin is the one out of town.

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2 hours ago, KoRP said:

This summation is excellent... tired of the malcontents spewing hatred for OUR club.

 

Wanna brag and say how much you appreciate Poille's 20 years of a GM and Nashville's new top(cough) defenseman? https://www.hockeyforums.net/forum/34-nashville-predators-forum/ Join up and cya...

 

I'm glad for PK's continued success, but I really don't want to hear the doom and gloom constantly surrounding our favorite club.

Some of us here think the Habs had a good season, and weren't really that far away from going deeper, and Weber played well for us, good teams lose playoff rounds.

Some of us are still hopeful for coming seasons, and would like a molecule of respect for being positive, instead of getting jumped on in every second post if we are positive about our club's future...

 

I really don't like when posters tell other posters what to write or where to write it. 

 

Instead of telling people not to write here cause you don't want to read their opinions... there are other simpler solutions... like you not reading their opinons. 

Thats a "molecule of respect".

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16 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I've actually never enjoyed debating anything on here more than the Weber-Subban trade and I'm on the other side of the fence. I could talk about it all day. I just realized for he first time that this thread feels like a Nashville Predators forum though, not a Habs forum.

 

The more vocal people are those trying to debate how the Habs lost the deal. Call it a difference in personality, but even if it were true, that's something I'd try to keep on the down low. It's not something I would be constantly bragging about amongst Habs fans. Those are the types of fans that other fan bases take pleasure in chirping.

I actually wholely engage and participate when other teams fans chirp me about the trade. I have zero desire to try to cover up what I think about it (always hated it). Chirping doesn't get to me when I agree.

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Agree with the thoughts on Subban/Nashville surging while our Habs shit the bed: he helps the Preds, but its' not like Weber was the reason the Habs stunk in the post-season this year.  Weber was solid.  Pacioretty and Galchenyuk are 90% of the reason this team failed in the playoffs, so picking apart 'the trade' is like focusing the post-mortem on the brain when a guy clearly died of a heart attack.

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