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2016-17 NHL Season Thread

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xXx..CK..xXx    146
4 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

So when Houle and Corey traded Roy, we were supposed to just shut up and support the club?

 

When Gauthier traded Cammalleri mid game against the Bruins, just shut up and be happy?


Nah. My hockey fandom don't work that way. You want to still think the team has a future? You do you. I supported Bergevin quite a lot in the past. 

 

Maybe I eat crow next year but this year has gone almost exactly as I suspected. The only thing that surprised me was Therrien getting fired and Julien being worse at handling Galchenyuk. If this is the Habs I'm being given, I'll wait for the Habs I want.

 

I spend most of my time in the out of town thread and will continue until Bergevin is the one out of town.

What I didn't realize is how many people became Avalanche and Flames fans after those trades. There's something childish going on here with your mentality and in this case Bergevin is your father. :lol:

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Stogey24    254
53 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Ah, Berkshire. He's gonna milk this one for every second he can so we forget about his Diaz predictions.

I was going to say this is a Berkshire article, so take as you will 

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xXx..CK..xXx    146
3 hours ago, Meller93 said:

I actually wholely engage and participate when other teams fans chirp me about the trade. I have zero desire to try to cover up what I think about it (always hated it). Chirping doesn't get to me when I agree.

That's fine but would you also spend your entire time with fellow Habs fans in the real world chirping our own team in front of those other teams' fans? Even without those other fans there? At least have some pride (not you personally). Not sure what to make of all of it. All I know is that I wouldn't enjoy watching Habs games with a friend or fan like that. That being said, sometimes people are also really hard on their team because they are passionate, but quite often that passion can lead to a tinted non-rose colored lense as well.

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Meller93    122
1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

 That's fine but would you also spend your entire time with fellow Habs fans in the real world chirping our own team in front of those other teams' fans? Even without those other fans there? At least have some pride (not you personally). Not sure what to make of all of it. All I know is that I wouldn't enjoy watching Habs games with a friend or fan like that. That being said, sometimes people are also really hard on their team because they are passionate, but quite often that passion can lead to a tinted non-rose colored lense as well.

Absolutely all negativity would get extremely old extremely fast. When I talk about the trade I never talk s**t about Weber for example, I think he's an awesome defence man. I generally try to be as positive about the players as possible. 

 

But it honestly I think I'm just a realist, and though I'm not always right I try to speak objectively, and I think we objectively lost this trade.

 

I'll give credit where credit is due though.

 

But being a true fan involves emotion. We put so much time into this, it's honestly part of a lifestyle. How could we not get upset if we truly think a move could hurt the team for years down the road? A casual fan would say, ah screw it, a trade! Exciting.

 

I'm not a casual fan hahah. I look at things as if I were GM, as I think many on here do. It's why I like talking about it so much. So I wouldn't have it any other way, pissed-offness and all.

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Meller93    122
Just now, Meller93 said:

Absolutely all negativity would get extremely old extremely fast. When I talk about the trade I never talk s**t about Weber for example, I think he's an awesome defence man. I generally try to be as positive about the players as possible. 

 

But honestly I think I'm just a realist, and though I'm not always right I try to speak objectively, and I think we objectively lost this trade.

 

I'll give credit where credit is due though.

 

But being a true fan involves emotion. We put so much time into this, it's honestly part of a lifestyle. How could we not get upset if we truly think a move could hurt the team for years down the road? A casual fan would say, ah screw it, a trade! Exciting.

 

I'm not a casual fan hahah. I look at things as if I were GM, as I think many on here do. It's why I like talking about it so much. So I wouldn't have it any other way, pissed-offness and all.

 

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xXx..CK..xXx    146
1 hour ago, Meller93 said:

Absolutely all negativity would get extremely old extremely fast. When I talk about the trade I never talk s**t about Weber for example, I think he's an awesome defence man. I generally try to be as positive about the players as possible. 

 

But it honestly I think I'm just a realist, and though I'm not always right I try to speak objectively, and I think we objectively lost this trade.

 

I'll give credit where credit is due though.

 

But being a true fan involves emotion. We put so much time into this, it's honestly part of a lifestyle. How could we not get upset if we truly think a move could hurt the team for years down the road? A casual fan would say, ah screw it, a trade! Exciting.

 

I'm not a casual fan hahah. I look at things as if I were GM, as I think many on here do. It's why I like talking about it so much. So I wouldn't have it any other way, pissed-offness and all.

Yeah, I think there are small divides that can never be resolved because there are so many uncertainties surrounding the actual reasoning behind the trade. I'm not a blind follower of management but I would like to believe they know more than any of us in terms of what goes on behind the scenes.  I will say that I do not believe that Therrien would have requested the player be gone. In addition, I would like to think that if there were indeed unrelated hockey reasons, we got a pretty good player in return. Nothing comparable to Bourque or Thibault (liked Rucinsky but not for Roy). All in all, I'm not even personally convinced that there even was a personal reason for the trade because it was Poile who approached Bergevin at the very last minute.

 

It's tough to separate emotion from reality because we had a relatively good season where most people predicted the Habs to beat an alright Rangers team. Those same people want the manager fired because those results didn't materialize. The stars don't align because we're all hockey minds here and I'm not sure how Bergevin was supposed to be the only one to know that we were in trouble prior to that series.

 

We are not Leafs fans. We have experienced some seasons with a comparatively weak offensive unit and we've still had a chance to make some noise. The Leafs never had Carey Price, who gives us a shot to win in any given year. The more we take that for granted, the more we're going to figure out how much we miss him once he retires and goaltending is no longer a strength of ours.

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BCHabnut    163

St. Louis just hired Steve Ott as an assistant coach. He was the only one I would have kept. 

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2 hours ago, Meller93 said:

Absolutely all negativity would get extremely old extremely fast. When I talk about the trade I never talk s**t about Weber for example, I think he's an awesome defence man. I generally try to be as positive about the players as possible. 

 

But it honestly I think I'm just a realist, and though I'm not always right I try to speak objectively, and I think we objectively lost this trade.

 

I'll give credit where credit is due though.

 

But being a true fan involves emotion. We put so much time into this, it's honestly part of a lifestyle. How could we not get upset if we truly think a move could hurt the team for years down the road? A casual fan would say, ah screw it, a trade! Exciting.

 

I'm not a casual fan hahah. I look at things as if I were GM, as I think many on here do. It's why I like talking about it so much. So I wouldn't have it any other way, pissed-offness and all.

 

Great post. I am disgusted with MB's inability to fix problems and his corresponding BS about make-believe problems and make-believe solutions, and I think The Trade was asinine. But you know, I don't slag Weber either, apart from making sarcastic remarks about his Leadership (which are not directed at him, but rather at the fetishization of this nebulous quality and the related idea that Subban hasn't got it),

 

If we get angry and passionate, why? It's because we care about the Habs. Habs29 and I, for instance, have spent the last year fuming at management, and we continue to fume, because we are disappointed and angry that the team is being mishandled, that our hopes are being let down. By contrast, I follow the Canucks because I live in Van, but I follow them in an amused, disinterested way; when they screw up, I find it, if anything, funny. And I would never spend time on a board like this arguing about whether Benning is a dope - because I don't really care if the Canucks stink.

 

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

The Leafs never had Carey Price, who gives us a shot to win in any given year. The more we take that for granted, the more we're going to figure out how much we miss him once he retires and goaltending is no longer a strength of ours.

 

Maybe I'm listening to too much Tony Marinaro, but I'm kind of sick of the Carey Price Complex. Is the team worse without him? Hell yeah. Have they done much with him? No. He's played one game in the conference finals and that's as far as this team has gone with him. That has much more to do with the team and it's dizzying array of feckless general managers, but he's not a panacea for all hockey ailments. The run I envisioned him having, where he leads the Habs to the Cup like a Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, or Tim Thomas hasn't materialized and when you add in the injury history? Giving him a 8/USA GDP deal is going to be a massive mistake. Which is why I expect an announcement of a monster deal before July 4th. 

 

I'm starting to think goaltending is more of an asset in the regular season. There are always a couple of goalies that play lights-out for a few series, and the .925 Price puts up like clockwork doesn't play out over a limited sample size. Teams can get by with very good goaltending in the playoffs instead of Vezina caliber play. Also, you can get a great goalie that turns into a tomato can for 3-5 games like Bobrovsky or Holtby.

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Until they build a team that can win without Carey being Carey, they will never win.

 

Everyone remembers Thomas becoming a superhero and winning a Conn Smythe. They forget April 21st when the Habs scored four goals and the Bruins had to win 5-4 in OT. They forget that Thomas allowed five goals in each loss to Tampa and one game where Boston had to win 6-5. They just remember the shutouts, and the domination against Philadelphia and Vancouver.

 

Point being, for Thomas to be great, Boston had to be great. They had to be able to score. They couldn't point the finger at their goalie when he allowed four or five in. They had to go ahead and tie the game or else the went home packing. Until Montreal builds a club that can dig Price out when the game gets tough, they will continue to lose like in 2015 to Tampa and 2017 to the Rangers. Series where everyone knows a few more goals as Montreal is in the next round.

 

$6 million, $8 million, $10 million, don't matter. Can they score in the postseason?

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Meller93    122

Also apologies for the double post, I corrected a small error but it posted weird 

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Meller93    122

So, our 4th line center is now assistant coach of the blues 

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2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Until they build a team that can win without Carey being Carey, they will never win.

 

Everyone remembers Thomas becoming a superhero and winning a Conn Smythe. They forget April 21st when the Habs scored four goals and the Bruins had to win 5-4 in OT. They forget that Thomas allowed five goals in each loss to Tampa and one game where Boston had to win 6-5. They just remember the shutouts, and the domination against Philadelphia and Vancouver.

 

Point being, for Thomas to be great, Boston had to be great. They had to be able to score. They couldn't point the finger at their goalie when he allowed four or five in. They had to go ahead and tie the game or else the went home packing. Until Montreal builds a club that can dig Price out when the game gets tough, they will continue to lose like in 2015 to Tampa and 2017 to the Rangers. Series where everyone knows a few more goals as Montreal is in the next round.

 

$6 million, $8 million, $10 million, don't matter. Can they score in the postseason?

 

But can they build a team around Carey Price that can win after his new deal? The Habs can't count on their prospects to come in and fill roles for cheap money. They're already one number one, or two number two centers short. Markov is ageless, but suited for third pairing minutes. If Radulov doesn't sign, they need a first line center. Galchenyuk needs a new deal, or they're taking on a contract.  Big money in players that aren't even good between Petry and Plekanec. 

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Commandant    609

Price's contract doesn't start until 2018-19.

 

Expiring that year will be Plekanec and Emelin.   

 

So yes there is cap space to build around Price, you just can't overpay guys like that. 

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xXx..CK..xXx    146
3 hours ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

Maybe I'm listening to too much Tony Marinaro, but I'm kind of sick of the Carey Price Complex. Is the team worse without him? Hell yeah. Have they done much with him? No. He's played one game in the conference finals and that's as far as this team has gone with him. That has much more to do with the team and it's dizzying array of feckless general managers, but he's not a panacea for all hockey ailments. The run I envisioned him having, where he leads the Habs to the Cup like a Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, or Tim Thomas hasn't materialized and when you add in the injury history? Giving him a 8/USA GDP deal is going to be a massive mistake. Which is why I expect an announcement of a monster deal before July 4th. 

 

I'm starting to think goaltending is more of an asset in the regular season. There are always a couple of goalies that play lights-out for a few series, and the .925 Price puts up like clockwork doesn't play out over a limited sample size. Teams can get by with very good goaltending in the playoffs instead of Vezina caliber play. Also, you can get a great goalie that turns into a tomato can for 3-5 games like Bobrovsky or Holtby.

I agree. I mentioned in another thread that he hasn't played as well in the playoffs as he has in the regular season in general although his numbers have improved since Waite. This year he played well, but faced another top goalie in my opinion. 

 

I still don't question having Carey Price as our starting goalie. I understand the thought that we need our team to improve overall but I still stand by the fact he does give us a chance to win every year. In addition, having Price on another team and another decent goalie like Rinne or Halak on the Habs doesn't ensure that our offense magically becomes top tier. Right now, our goaltending is top tier. The only thing I question is how Price seems to control when he plays, when he gets pulled and all that. In addition, I like the Pittsburgh model of having two top goalies better than our model. I've always really liked Montoya but he's like a Bernier and we saw how that worked out for Anaheim. Having a goalie like Price leaves us little reason to have as solid a backup because it's not as necessary.

 

Given that reality, we have a pretty good backup but we're still no Pittsburgh. Come to think of it, that was us in 2010 with Halak and Price and it was also Vancouver with Schneider and Luongo in Vancouver and neither of those teams were able to make it work in the long run. On the other hand, Pittsburgh decided to keep Fleury and he carried the load when Murray was injured. As I wrote that sentence, Schultz put the Pens up 2-1 with 8 minutes left so they are a few minutes away from cup final. 

 

Edit: Dzingel just tied it up 2-2 with 5 mins left. 

 

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Meller93    122

Loving the game CK, next goal wins most likely!

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hab29RETIRED    169

Wow, there is just no quit on this Ottawa team.  MB not firing his fat bum buddy and hiring Boucher is looking even worse now.  Nobody is ever going to call this sens team fragile.  Karlsson has also proven he is the best dman by a country mile.  Doughty should not have won the Norris last year,

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Meller93    122
4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Wow, there is just no quit on this Ottawa team.  MB not firing his fat bum buddy and hiring Boucher is looking even worse now.  Nobody is ever going to call this sens team fragile.  Karlsson has also proven he is the best dman by a country mile.  Doughty should not have won the Norris last year,

Tough loss for them, game 7 OT is clearly anyone's series. Also agree that Karlsson is next level. What a talent.

 

It'll be interesting to see what Boucher does although I'm ready to see a full season for Julien too. All I hope from Julien is that he doesn't stifle the Galchenyuk's, Beaulieu's, Scherbaks (not that scherbak is NHL ready) etc. IMO in order for the young/mistake-prone players to grow, you have to let them make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes.

 

 

 

 

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BCHabnut    163
4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Wow, there is just no quit on this Ottawa team.  MB not firing his fat bum buddy and hiring Boucher is looking even worse now.  Nobody is ever going to call this sens team fragile.  Karlsson has also proven he is the best dman by a country mile.  Doughty should not have won the Norris last year,

Totally agree on Karlsson. I've been a believer for several years. Even when people said he wasn't that good defensively, I was wondering what they were watching.

 

I'm not a boucher fan yet. That may change in the future, but I find his system incredibly boring. It is also not that flawless. It reminds me of Jaques Martin a  lot. Martin teams always gave up a lot of shots, but kept them in low danger areas. They make the goalie look good, but the goalie still has to stop all those shots. Eventually they go against you. For me, Julien was a good choice, and I'm happy he is the coach. 

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9 hours ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

But can they build a team around Carey Price that can win after his new deal? The Habs can't count on their prospects to come in and fill roles for cheap money. They're already one number one, or two number two centers short. Markov is ageless, but suited for third pairing minutes. If Radulov doesn't sign, they need a first line center. Galchenyuk needs a new deal, or they're taking on a contract.  Big money in players that aren't even good between Petry and Plekanec. 

Cap management.

 

I don't think anyone would miss Emelin if he disappeared. That's $4 million for a middling defenceman.

 

You got Plekanec underachieving at $6 million, and an overpaid Andrew Shaw at $4 million.

 

Lose those contracts you got $14 million to spend. More likely you just lose Plek-Emelin. You also have Markov coming up on a new deal and hopefully he takes less. 

 

More than enough money to give Price a raise from his $6 million (he already makes 6 so you're just increasing $2-$4 million) and still field a competitive team. Now, what would make the Habs competitive? If they had good young players coming down the pipe to provide scoring at a low cost. Right now the only guys doing that are Lehkonen and Danault.

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KoRP    154
On ‎25‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 10:05 AM, Commandant said:

 

I really don't like when posters tell other posters what to write or where to write it. 

 

Instead of telling people not to write here cause you don't want to read their opinions... there are other simpler solutions... like you not reading their opinons. 

Thats a "molecule of respect".

How about I just not read yours, that's less than a molecule of respect for you , exactly what you show everyone else.

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hab29RETIRED    169
1 hour ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

Cap management.

 

I don't think anyone would miss Emelin if he disappeared. That's $4 million for a middling defenceman.

 

You got Plekanec underachieving at $6 million, and an overpaid Andrew Shaw at $4 million.

 

Lose those contracts you got $14 million to spend. More likely you just lose Plek-Emelin. You also have Markov coming up on a new deal and hopefully he takes less. 

 

More than enough money to give Price a raise from his $6 million (he already makes 6 so you're just increasing $2-$4 million) and still field a competitive team. Now, what would make the Habs competitive? If they had good young players coming down the pipe to provide scoring at a low cost. Right now the only guys doing that are Lehkonen and Danault.

We've got pleks and Emelin coming off, but they need to be replaced - if they don't let galchenyuk play centre, we need two new centres.

 

we also need two new dmen.  Sergechev will hopefully be one cheap option, but as it stands, we have Weber, makeover, petry and sergechev, who fo now should be on the bottom 4 (with Markov). I think Beaulieu gets moved and we need someone to play with Weber.

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Commandant    609
20 minutes ago, KoRP said:

How about I just not read yours, that's less than a molecule of respect for you , exactly what you show everyone else.

 

Fine by me.  

 

No one is forcing you to read anyone else's posts. 

 

The ignore list is easy to find. 

 

As for respecting others... I'm not the one telling people to leave this forum and post somewhere else cause I don't like their opinions.  

 

Grow up.  Sometimes people will disagree with you.  That doesn't mean trying to silence them.  This forum would be boring if we all agreed all the time. 

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Commandant    609
10 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We've got pleks and Emelin coming off, but they need to be replaced - if they don't let galchenyuk play centre, we need two new centres.

 

we also need two new dmen.  Sergechev will hopefully be one cheap option, but as it stands, we have Weber, makeover, petry and sergechev, who fo now should be on the bottom 4 (with Markov). I think Beaulieu gets moved and we need someone to play with Weber.

 

If the plan is to play Markov on the bottom pair (And i don't think it is, i think he still is on the second pair), then he isn't getting the same 5.75 he got last year.  That gives extra space. 

 

Remember also that Carey Price is already making 6 million, so his 2018-19 contract is only going to be a 2-3 million increase... not a new contract taking up a new 8-9 million in space. 

 

If you avoid contracts like Pleks and Emelin, there is space to go around.  Its all about good management. 

 

Can Bergevin do that? I don't know.

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hab29RETIRED    169
16 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

If the plan is to play Markov on the bottom pair (And i don't think it is, i think he still is on the second pair), then he isn't getting the same 5.75 he got last year.  That gives extra space. 

 

Remember also that Carey Price is already making 6 million, so his 2018-19 contract is only going to be a 2-3 million increase... not a new contract taking up a new 8-9 million in space. 

 

If you avoid contracts like Pleks and Emelin, there is space to go around.  Its all about good management. 

 

Can Bergevin do that? I don't know.

Frankly, I don't have much faith in his ability to manag the cap given the contracts he has given to Shaw and Briere.  If somehow he managed to get a real top 6 centre, imagine what he would shell out for them.  Ideally, unlike most who likes the grit he brings, I would want to dump Shaw.  I hate his contract - both $ and term.  MB should have given only one or the other to Shaw, but he gave both.  I can't believe he stood fast on the bridge for Subban and than constintly pays too much for washed up guys like Briere or scrubs like Shaw. Nickel and dime the talent and over pay for character is not how you build a cup contender.

 

im not sure where to play Markov and Petry.  At this stage, neither is a true top pairing dman.  But you can't really play the two together either. So I think one of them has to play on the bottom pair.  I also think if sergechev is with us next year he he should play with Markov, who I think will be the ideal mentor.  I don't think we should be rushing him to the top pairing with Weber.  But who knows, he may surprise.

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