Commandant Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 3 hours ago, habs rule said: They need a kick in the pants, that's for sure. As to hitting when a guy throws a big check and knocks some guy on his a$$ it tends to wake the team up and get them going. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a strong hard hitting game. It tends to make the other team listen for foot steps and make mistakes. The great pumpkin knows it has been done to us a lot of times. Maybe all this leadership they now have since the traded the black guy away could step up and get this team going. Big hits "get the team going" seems more a media narrative than something that is actually true. People have looked at a number of "big hits" and the possession in the 5 minutes before the hit and the 5 minutes after. There is zero correlation that it actually changes the momentum of the game. Sometimes it does, but more often it really doesn't. Its confirmation bias. We remember the times a big hit actually did change the game; which is rare, but don't remember the times there was a big hit but little change in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, DON said: No, he actually bowled over at least two Sens...which only stood out to me, because I agree he normally does a fly-by or puts forth a token effort to be physical. So I was pleasantly surprised to see he actually does know how to throw a hit. But, also I don't expect him to become a Emelin and I think many would be pleased if he simply helps lead the team in offense again. If he had of scored on that partial breakaway, or the tap-in open net pass he missed, the oldtimer Boone might of woke up (but who could blame anyone from nodding off for first 1/2 of that game). I agree. I wish I could find video of a nice first period open ice hit he had on one of the Sens' defensemen. I thought he looked like he didn't want to be shooting in the shootout but otherwise his game wasn't any worse than anyone else's. We can all debate Pacioretty's leadership and whether or not he's worthy but one thing is clear, those who don't appreciate it him want him to do things he simply isn't cut out for. As for the team as a whole, I'll reserve full judgment until we play a few games at home as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 27 minutes ago, Commandant said: Big hits "get the team going" seems more a media narrative than something that is actually true. People have looked at a number of "big hits" and the possession in the 5 minutes before the hit and the 5 minutes after. There is zero correlation that it actually changes the momentum of the game. Sometimes it does, but more often it really doesn't. Its confirmation bias. We remember the times a big hit actually did change the game; which is rare, but don't remember the times there was a big hit but little change in the game. I think big hits can get players on the bench going but it can be argued just as easily that a big hit can get the receiving team of the hit going as well. One thing that still stands in my opinion is if I were a coach, despite where the modern game is heading, I would still appreciate it if my forwards banged the opposing team's d-men in their defensive end after a dump in. Make them think twice about handling the puck in the defensive zone and hopefully force some turnovers. I think those types of things still stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 1 minute ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: I think big hits get teams going but it can be argued just as easily that a big hit gets the other team going as well. One thing that still stands in my opinion, is as a coach, despite where the modern game is heading, I would still appreciate it if my forwards banged the opposing team's d-men after a dump in. Make them think twice about handling the puck in the defensive zone and hopefully force some turnovers. I think those types of things still stand. I'd rather gain the zone with speed and not worry about dump ins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, Commandant said: I'd rather gain the zone with speed and not worry about dump ins. I guess that's where the game is headed but there are still some situations where dumping it in can be an effective option. That being said, I'd rather gain the zone with speed for the most part as well. I'm on the agreeing side that the game is changing but it's only been 2-3 years since LA won the cup and while they did have some speed on that version of their squad, their physicality was predominant as well. On one hand, I find it astonishing how much the game has changed in the past 2 seasons but on the other, it hasn't been long enough for me to conclude that you can't win in other ways. Yes, I know Chicago and Pittsburgh were there as well as the Boston's and LA's of the league and I guess that's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: On one hand, I find it astonishing how much the game has changed in the past 2 seasons but on the other, it hasn't been long enough for me to conclude that you can't win in other ways. LA was still all about possession and carry. Where people have it confused is watching Mike Babcock coach Team Canada, which is an all-star team that leaves three all-star teams worth of players off of their all-star team, think that's the right way to play the game, but forget that Mike Babcock's NHL teams haven't made it past the second round since his loss to the Penguins 8 years ago, and last year his coached team was the worst team in the NHL. Yet people still see him as the best coach in hockey (even I did until recently) and that his play to not lose style is better than the play to win style of Pittsburgh, Chicago, and LA. Can you win in other ways? Of course you can. But you'll see more in common with the possession and carry style from the historically best teams in hockey history than you do from the grindy dump teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I don't think this Habs squad can be a physically dominant team anyway, Pateryn and Weber were the only "hitters" in the lineup the other night. What I would like to see, and any size team can do it, is players finishing their checks, especially when playing with a lead. Finishing your check, is different than big hits, big hits only come when the opportunity is there, going looking for them never leads to anything other than getting beat on the play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Mark stone was quoted prior to th e game that beating the habs last season was the highlight of their lost season!! Just saying its no wonder we weren't ready for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 So, who wants to take tomorrow's GDT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 3 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: Mark stone was quoted prior to th e game that beating the habs last season was the highlight of their lost season!! Just saying its no wonder we weren't ready for them. Ottawa is convinced there's a rivalry. Montreal just doesn't see it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 37 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said: Ottawa is convinced there's a rivalry. Montreal just doesn't see it yet. We've had the same problem with Toronto for years, with the result that our record against TO is probably not as good as it should be, based on the talent levels in the respective organizations. (This is just a guess on my part). Despite the efforts of HNIC and other vested media interests, this organization's primary rival is the Boston Bruins: a great franchise whose playoff battles with the Habs have defined and scarred generations of fans in both cities. The Leafs have been too irrelevant for too many decades to qualify as a genuine (as opposed to media-driven) rival. Ottawa is at least relevant, but the hatred doesn't seem to be there on the Habs' end. I'd imagine that the Rangers and Tampa Bay feel like much more serious rivals to the players in that locker room. The really agonizing playoff defeats over the past few years have come at the hands of those squads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 4 hours ago, KoRP said: I don't think this Habs squad can be a physically dominant team anyway, Pateryn and Weber were the only "hitters" in the lineup the other night. What I would like to see, and any size team can do it, is players finishing their checks, especially when playing with a lead. Finishing your check, is different than big hits, big hits only come when the opportunity is there, going looking for them never leads to anything other than getting beat on the play. If you look at the Habs' top-6, none of those players is physically imposing. Patches is big but not especially physical, Gallagher is chippy but not fear-inducing, Pleks relies on stickwork to carve guys, and Galchenyuk might be physically the weakest link in that I'm not 100% convinced that he cannot be intimidated. Radulov is interesting, though...he seems so strong on the puck that he might qualify as our most "robust" top-6 FW. What this boils down to is that the FWs who get the most ice-time on Montreal simply do not have the tools to impose their will physically. Weber beefs up the back-end but doesn't change the complexion of the team as a whole. You're right about 'finishing your checks,' however. But these Habs are not going to scare anybody with their physicality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 hours ago, dlbalr said: So, who wants to take tomorrow's GDT? If no one has done it by this evening, I can do a bare bones one at least. But, if anyone who is more tech savvy can do it, would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 58 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: We've had the same problem with Toronto for years, with the result that our record against TO is probably not as good as it should be, based on the talent levels in the respective organizations. (This is just a guess on my part). Despite the efforts of HNIC and other vested media interests, this organization's primary rival is the Boston Bruins: a great franchise whose playoff battles with the Habs have defined and scarred generations of fans in both cities. The Leafs have been too irrelevant for too many decades to qualify as a genuine (as opposed to media-driven) rival. Ottawa is at least relevant, but the hatred doesn't seem to be there on the Habs' end. I'd imagine that the Rangers and Tampa Bay feel like much more serious rivals to the players in that locker room. The really agonizing playoff defeats over the past few years have come at the hands of those squads. Tampa is unquestionably a playoff rival. They have played three series together. One Tampa won then won the Cup. Second Montreal won then lost in ECF. Third Tampa won then lost in ECF. Tampa also always has a significant French Canadian superstar in their club to be the envy of fans in Quebec (Lecavalier, St. Louis, Drouin) While Montreal has played Ottawa twice, it's an even 1-1. Montreal can't seem to beat Philadelphia for the life of them in the playoffs since 1989. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I live in Southern California now and speaking hockey with people here, you generally hear talk about rivalries with any combination of LA/Anaheim/SJ. When a Kings fan talks to me about how much of a prick Perry is on the ice, my first thought and comparison is Marchand so I definitely agree that our primary rivals are the Bruins. The comparison is interesting because when you think about it, LA and Anaheim have genuine reasons to be rivals due to their proximity to one another. LA and SJ also have good reason to be rivals because they keep playing each other in the playoffs. Other than them being both in California, I can't think of a genuine reason that Anaheim and San Jose should really be "rivals". Maybe because they each have a strong contingent of same era Canadian superstars. It wouldn't surprise me if Anaheim thought more of the rivalry than San Jose since really, Anaheim hasn't faced either the Kings or San Jose in many meaningful matches. San Jose on the other hand has faced the Kings. That's kind of like the Leafs or Sens thinking more about the rivalry than the Habs. I look at the "rivalry" between the Leafs and Habs and think back to being a young kid at my cottage with no cable. We had CBC and on Saturday this meant HNIC. For whatever reason, it really did feel like we played the Leafs a ridiculous amount on Saturday in the late 90s and as a result of being so happy that we at least had hockey to watch on Saturday, playing the Leafs developed into something for me. If you take the term literally, then rivalry is too strong a word but there should be another word for what the matchups between the Habs and Leafs mean, because there is something more to it than a simple regular season matchup. As for the players? I think they don't see it through the same lense and to them, even if they are unaware, they probably don't even feel the rivalry as much as even a player in 2000 on the Habs did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The fact Montreal and Toronto have yet to meet in the playoffs a single time since Toronto moved to the Eastern Conference, when that was one of the big reasons to move them to the East (that and the one thing that did happen which is a Battle of Ontario) is one of the funniest things to (not) happen in the NHL. There's no rivalry between Montreal and Toronto anymore but the day they finally meet in the playoffs? Hoo boy, be ready for some fireworks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 5 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said: The fact Montreal and Toronto have yet to meet in the playoffs a single time since Toronto moved to the Eastern Conference, when that was one of the big reasons to move them to the East (that and the one thing that did happen which is a Battle of Ontario) is one of the funniest things to (not) happen in the NHL. There's no rivalry between Montreal and Toronto anymore but the day they finally meet in the playoffs? Hoo boy, be ready for some fireworks. It's a total joke. I don't understand the hype. I don't hate anyone in TO except maybe Kadri. I don't get keyed up for a Toronto game. Or an Ottawa game. Bruins and Lightening I get down right excited about. That's the rivalry for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, BCHabnut said: It's a total joke. I don't understand the hype. I don't hate anyone in TO except maybe Kadri. I don't get keyed up for a Toronto game. Or an Ottawa game. Bruins and Lightening I get down right excited about. That's the rivalry for sure. maybe you don't remember 1967 when those aholes beat us for the cup. over the years there have been some great games. I hate them as much as Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 53 minutes ago, habs rule said: maybe you don't remember 1967 when those aholes beat us for the cup. over the years there have been some great games. I hate them as much as Boston. 67...holy moly, you do hold a grudge forever eh. Hope I never piss you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, BCHabnut said: It's a total joke. I don't understand the hype. I don't hate anyone in TO except maybe Kadri. I don't get keyed up for a Toronto game. Or an Ottawa game. Bruins and Lightening I get down right excited about. That's the rivalry for sure. I actually remember the last three Leaf games I got excited for: April 7th, 2007: Toronto won 6-5. Montreal lost their playoff spot because of this game and Toronto almost stole it (but it was the Islanders who got it instead). I bet my Leaf friends on a win and we lost. Both teams played absolutely awful games. I remember only Ryder looked good and it was maybe the last good Ryder game he had in Montreal. Always wondered if that game killed his mojo. There's other things about that night I won't disclose but they involve a strip club and an Easter bunny costume. October 1st, 2009: Montreal won in OT. We were a brand new team and Toronto was supposed to be brand new as well. Huge focus on Mike Komisarek playing Montreal now as a Leaf. Georges Laraque and Colton Orr fought like immediately in a stupid fight. November 10th, 2010: The game that killed the Leafs as a playoff team* to this day in my opinion, all in this one play. Since this game, I think I've faked my excitement for Leaf games ever since because I've never looked at them as a potential threat since this play, on this day. *I know they made the playoffs in 12-13 but it's not like that ever mattered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Ahh trip down memory lane. This thread should turn into a rival history thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 14 hours ago, DON said: 67...holy moly, you do hold a grudge forever eh. Hope I never piss you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.